ILMOU

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:02 PM) No way. Highest I would go is Snodgrass or Nester Molina. Molina yes, Snodgress no. Snodgress could be an effective lefty reliever soon. But screw it, Lobaton sucks.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:38 PM) Rienzo and Surkamp and Axelrod have been tried and convicted of being not so good. Rienzo has more stuff than Axe, so he has more potential, whether he realizes it or not. Not yet convicted, imo. Can't comment on Surkamp yet.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) I read a scouting report on him. It said his delivery got all out of whack. He changed it last year, taking some MPHs off his pitches but increasing his command. He got rocked in April, but was lights out the rest of the season. I'm not saying UJ can't still be good, just that he'll never be what he was.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 12:06 PM) I don't know what to tell you if you don't think the Sox are competing with the Cubs. Oh, please. When we win, we draw. The Cubs are so tearing it up with rabid fan enthusiasm these days.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:58 AM) In my mind, Jimenez at $39 million is far less a gamble than Abreu at $68 million. And I love the Abreu signing. We will see what Jimenez ultimately signs for. It may be more. It may be less, but if you can harness his delivery, and that is something Cooper is known for, he is one of the better pitchers in the game. He certainly was here in CO for awhile. I was his biggest fan. Consistently 96-98, even at games' end, with 6-8 inches of armside tail. If he had command of the FB, he barely needed the slider, which was always inconsistent, even in his best days, but was terrific when he was "on". Haven't seen anything close to that guy in the years that have transpired since. Don't know what happened - injuries didn't seem too severe. Some suspect roids, but all is speculation. Maybe Coop can help, but he'll never be what he was. That said, Ervin could be a gas can with the way the ball flies out of the cell, so if it's a choice, go with Ubaldo.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:45 AM) With their future payroll commitments they can absorb the salary hit if the signing is bad. The upside is too good to pass up. The conservative rebuild approach won't cut it IF these Cubs prospects are what they are reported to be. Cubs, what??? This has anything to do with us?? The casual fan will show up for winning, regardless of the northsiders. You worry about that stuff?!?! Gotta get out of the bubble. If the price gets low enough, they may do what you want, yet. But we don't know what that is, if it exists.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:37 AM) And if Abreu bombs you eat $68 million, yet no one is worried about that. If the White Sox don't sign guys because they may bomb, they will become the Marlins. Nice and safe and profitable. Hardly. Just acceptable risk for degree of return, as well as obvious need. I think the White Sox don't want to sign guys they don't want. Seems logical enough. I'm not worried they'll show a Marlins-like frugality, and neither are you. Come on, man.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:34 AM) Would I like to have him? Yes. Would I be willing to give up anybody valuable for him? No. This, or just say no.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 5, 2014 -> 11:25 AM) The Sox future financial commitments is the reason they should sign Jimenez or Santana. The risk is virtually nil if it bombs. The upside if it works out is they can deal a Quintana, Danks, Beck, Johnson, to fill a need. Outside of the core, they have little to deal to get anything of value. No, not nil. You'll either eat $40M (if it's a lot lower than that, I may even get on the trolley), which WILL impact your abilities next FA season, and/or you'll be forced to play someone who isn't one of your best 5, at least for awhile. Kinda like Dunn, who you enjoy so much. Not nil.

At a certain price point, more teams are likely to give it a look. Maybe even the Sox, but I'd be surprised. 10 days till pitchers and catchers report. Looking forward to reports about impt. things like Danks' velo. and key guys like Paulino, Johnson, Webb, etc., guys with an outside shot, like Robles, as well as about guys in camp that aren't ready yet to come north, like Beck, Bassitt, Snodgress and Winiarski, etc. Can't get here soon enough!

I like the hat. Can't tell if it's blue all the way around the back, or if there's a red panel (likely not). I remember feeling that the design of the batter and the SOX font were very "modern" in their day. Now it's retro. I'm old.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 04:35 PM) I hate this argument so much. If it's June/July and you're 10 games out then f*** it move some pieces and give young guys a chance and the worse you finish the better. If we finish with a top 3 pick next year this will be another miserable season for all of us. Hopefully our young guys perform well and we pick up some additional prospects in July. Let's improve 10-12 games this year and another 10 games in '15 and get back in the playoff picture. That's what Hahn is trying to do. We are trying to add long term value. 95+ losses offers very little likelihood we're moving towards that goal. Tell it, rodent. Long term suckage is bad for the franchise and bad for the fanbase, and the positives of draft position don't come close to outweighing it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 01:48 PM) Still sounds like a fair chance that Davidson opens in AAA. Rick clearly said they have a few things they want him to work out, but that he would get the chance to break camp with the big team. And regardless of what he really thinks of Davidson, Rick has to keep the world thinking he has some use for Kepp and Conor while he may be trying to trade them.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 02:54 PM) if people actually care to debate points that havent been beaten to death, it will remain open Do you think the market might drive players back to their current teams for something similar to their QO? Kendrys, for instance, would look good for us NEXT year if Tank doesn't improve at the plate.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 12:27 PM) With the price these guys are going to sign for, there's no upside to waiting for next year. You obviously missed the part about getting a player you want, the six man rotation, the part about being forced to play a guy whether he sucks or not (like Adam Dunn, for instance), the part about the advantage of going for two QO FA's, which we're obviously not going to do now, basically all of it. If you're not even going to read the posts, but merely chime back with the same pat answers...well, good luck.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 11:13 AM) Haha....that way we could go back to playing DeAza everyday so we could trade him, lol. Well, at least Voltaire was nicely worked into the conversation in this thread, there's that noteworthy name. (And to think I felt a built guilty for extending the Dunn thread by including some positive comments about Santana, who only 3 people are arguing for). And, not surprisingly, Dick Allen's been fairly quiet about the idea of Don Cooper having magical powers or turning Jimenez into another version of Contreras...although he has been more in favor of adding a veteran pitcher than most here. So somewhere there needs to be an Adam Dunn/Santana/Jimenez/Paulino "catch all" thread at least for the first 2-3 months of the season. Indeed. We can call it the "Told ya so" thread and it can be the depository (suppository? ) for all the worn-out arguments of the too-long offseason. Start it on March 31.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 4, 2014 -> 09:37 AM) Paulino's career ERA in the bullpen is over 9. Otherwise, I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it. Yeah, and he's 30. Don't want to rush him, lol. EJohnson is not being rushed, nor is Rienzo who's sitting in the sixth spot. Each of our five projected starters needs the innings heading into this season. Do we really want to go to a 6 man - and see Sale and Q once every 6 games instead of 5 , when it's completely unnecessary? Some here think the backend of our rotation will blow, I prefer to see them pitch first. Not denying there's bargains to be had in terms of the current market and potential (over)valuation of the 2nd round pick. But then, when I look at our last three 2nd rounders being Johnson, Beck and Danish and the potential (yes, I know, potential) value they'll bring to the club going forward, I just don't think it's a good fit for our club right now. After this season, we will have a very good idea of who is and isn't part of the core moving forward. We will also have a lot to spend. Assuming the compensation rules remain the same (though I wouldn't completely rule out a tweaking of them for next offseason under threat of Collusion suit by the Union), are the picks going to be looked at as less valuable next year? IMO, barring a change, the market will look rather the same for the guys of the Ubaldo/Ervin level. And we might get somebody we want, as opposed to a guy we're forced to play whether he sucks or not. One thing to consider - there's an advantage to being in a "go for it" mentality as it pertains to FA, in that by signing multiple QO receiving FA's in an offseason, you lose a progressively less valuable draft pick with each signing. The Yankees have employed this strategy in '09 and this year. Few can, but we should be able to next year to plug the remaining holes. Another thing to consider - If we win enough this year to get out of the bottom ten (last year, both the 10th and 11th worst teams had 74 wins), then we'll be giving up higher picks overall, but we don't know about the relative overall quality of the two drafts at this time.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 09:13 AM) I wish Ervin Santana and Jimenez would just sign already so this moot and useless conversation ends. Chances Paulino outperforms Ubaldo Jimenez this year?? Agreed and sorry if I contributed to the nonsense. The angle I'm interested in is the current FA market, the value of the picks cutting into player salaries, and how FA looks for us next year at possible positions of need, like DH or LF. I think it's a couple years from a new CBA. I wonder if some players will sign with their current team for one year, with the promise of no QO next year. Is that even possible?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 08:15 AM) From the Heyman article...interesting stuff. Still not the right sign for the White Sox, though. There are clearly some concerns about wear and tear/losing stuff over the last decade, but there's some pretty compelling counter-evidence as well The same could be said for Santana, who like Cruz also had a very good platform year. Santana's agents put together a strong promotional book, pointing out some highlights that may surprise folks. Santana was tied for ninth in quality starts (23) last year, tied for ninth also in the ratio of above-average to below-average starts (3.00; he had 24 that were above average, just eight below average) and tied for eighth in the ratio of starts deemed "strong" or "dominant" by Inside Edge (59.4 percent). In that category, he was tied with no less than Yu Darvish, Jordan Zimmermann and Max Scherzer, the AL Cy Young winner. 1. Santana: This guy is much better than you think, though he may have to settle for less than we all figured. His persuasive promotional book points out that only nine pitchers have started more games than Santana since 2005, and only 11 have thrown more innings. And they aren't bad innings, either. He's been a consistent strike thrower and winner who's become more of a groundball pitcher with the development of a sinker, save for one off year in 2012, when he received all-time bad run support. Pitching only in the American League, he's won 105 games (38 more than Matt Garza, who got $50 million for four years plus a vesting option with no draft choice attached) and should be in line for a major deal. The book points to a value of $112.57 million over five years based on past contracts given to comps Zack Greinke, John Lackey and Burnett. That was never an asking price, mind you. But you couldn't blame them for aiming high considering the numbers. The Jays are known to have checked in, while the Orioles, Yankees and Twins are known to have requested his medicals. Beyond that, not much is known. There's no word yet Santana has dropped his asking price from five years, though at this stage, a four-year deal wouldn't be bad at all. I like Santana, but in our ballpark, not so much. He should stay in a spacious park, wherever he winds up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 07:07 AM) I can argue myself the other way too, with the fact that Scherzer is a FA and he has to be a priority target...I end up with "I'm not sure but it's plausible". Yep. A lot can change between now and then. I think that VMart might age better than most, if healthy, as he's more of a professional solid-contact hitter less dependent on power. Somewhat like Bobby Abreu. And produces like Julio Franco when he's on. Love watching him hit, and he's been a protector of Miggy, so why not JDA? On another topic, I'm wondering if the FA system can be tweaked before next offseason without some big hullaballoo between the union and MLB - the mid-tier guys that were good enough for QO, but whose value is weighed against high draft picks are likely going to get killed in the market. Could they maybe just lower the compensation to a second round pick, and third round if it's in the top 10? Just throwin' that out there. The union won't strike for a handful of players, but they're none too happy. http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-he...carlet-letter-q

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 06:31 AM) If he has a solid season, chances the Tigers offer him a QO? Good, I would think.

Love the ceiling on this guy. If the glove shows it can play at short, and he makes moderate strides at the plate, he'll be on the national radar quickly.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 2, 2014 -> 10:14 PM) If the Sox have a 2014 where everything goes smoothly I think that acquiring a LH bat for the middle of the order is close to inevitable next offseason. Victor Martinez may be a value on a two year deal following his age 35 season. Was thinking the same thing. If the health prognosis is good, I'd be all over it.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Feb 3, 2014 -> 01:39 AM) You're right. If Paulino can be fixed, he could be a July trade candidate for us to flip for a couple 'spects. ...or a guy we'll want to keep and flip a year later while still getting great value, even at the $4M '15 option. Or even a guy we'll want to extend at a reasonable rate if he has a role on contending future teams. Nice thing is we have that option - we can time it to the development curve of other pitchers if we like internal guys better. If it works out, could be a terrific signing, and contract structure. Much better than the needs-to-be-flippable-by-July-or-we-eat-$6M strategy employed on the other side of town, imo.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 2, 2014 -> 12:03 PM) Drug overdose, needle supposedly still in his arm when they found him. Wow. That really sucks. One of the best at his craft.