Dogfood22

There is absolutely no way in hell we can get to where we need to be in one offseason. The only way we can get to where we need to be in the future and have a solid young core is if a ton of our veterans have outstanding years next year, we ship them off for great prospects, and then those great prospects turn into MLB players. Most likely KW will try unsuccessfully to have another magical 2005-like offseason that is basically nothing more than mix-and-match patchwork. Just looking at what is out there and where our payroll is we're f***ed. KW can improve the team in small areas, like trading Contreras for another bad 2-year contract like Randy Winn. Or he can send Richar to Charlotte for another year and sign Eckstein to play 2B. Hell, he could sign Eckstein to play SS and sign Loretta or Iguchi to play 2B. That would make for a more productive IF. Or he could send virtually nothing to LAD for Rafael Furcal's bad contract. Maybe he could make some more smaller prospect-for-prosect deals, or use some of our minor league assets to get a young undervalued CF like Wily Taveras. But no matter what he does we're f***ed in the future. We had better start spending some money in the draft and we had better start doing it soon. League average ballplayers get huge amounts of money and slightly above average players get horrible contracts that can set organizations back. You can't get a halfway decent #3 starter for under $10mil per these days. I don't see what is so wrong with going over slot when the alternatives are what they are. There are no more bargains anywhere like JD was when he first came here. Now your "bargains" are s***ty ass f***in ballplayers. Aaron Rowand is a bargain? Aaron Rowand ain't no f***in bargain. Aaron Rowand sucks. It's almost better to sign an assload of write-offs and hope to find the next Carlos Pena or Jack Cust than it is to work the FA market because at least then you won't run into a contract that will set your organization back. And this all makes me hate those f***in Cubs even more. f*** Jim Hendry and everyone who looks like Jim Hendry.

I'd rather the Sox tried to find another Danny Richar somewhere (i.e. a player with decent tools and promise but blocked) in a small deal and then used Jon to get a young toolsy prospect with power potential. Dealing Garland for an expensive SS just seems foolish to me. I know the Sox want to contend next year but it's probably not going to happen, so if they are going to trade a couple of their proven veterans I'd rather see them bring in a couple guys with middle of the order potential. Young short stops with plus D and no bat are a lot easier to find than young power hitters are, and those SS are a lot less damaging to a Major League offense than someone like Sweeney is. We need to find our RF of the future. Actually, I think the best thing the Sox could do would be have as much of a firesale as they can without giving up Buehrle or Konerko. Then they could go out and spend a ton on Torii Hunter, sign a league average stop-gap somewhere and then try to convince the season ticket holders that they are serious about contending. I'd rather they did that than add more declining veterans to an already declining veteran core. I just want to see them do something positive for the longterm future of this team and from the things that have been said it doesn't sound like they are planning on taking the direction that they should take.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 09:12 PM) Lin doesn't have a chance if he is in the middle eighties in the minors. It all depends on how much movement he has on his fastball IMO. Paul Byrd is nothing special but he's had success in the Majors. He'll never be a highly rated prospect because of his low velocity and the odds will be more against him, but I wouldn't say that he doesn't have a chance.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) Look, Phillips is not going to get us anything of value. Even if someone thinks he can do well in a cavernous NL ballpark, he still won't bring us much. We aren't going to throw him in to pick up two useful prospects. Sorry to break it to you. That's what you say but that's ignorant. You always see similar smaller deals where one team trades a guy that they think nothing of and he goes on to have success somewhere else where the fit is better. Like the Arroyo for WMP swap. Or the Jack Cust deal. These are just two examples but I'm sure you could find a lot more if you looked. Just because you personally want to crap all over a player doesn't mean that player is garbage. He can still have worth to another team. I also love how you neglect to respond the basis of my argument, i.e. that the Sox can afford to ask as much as they want for their SP who will be one of the top pitchers available over the offseason on the trade market. I never said Seattle would look at Heath Phillips as a player on the level of any of the main components in a deal. I simply stated my reasoning as to why he'd be a good fit and why the Sox would make him available. Basically, he'd be a useful throw-in in a deal where Seattle would want a little bit more than just Garland.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 10:36 PM) Grading prospects is pretty vague, but a C prospect on Sickels scale is a guy like Jerry Owens, Dewon Day, or Sean Tracey. A B prospect is a guy like Josh Fields or Ryan Sweeney or Brent Lillibridge. Anyway, I can't see how a team with some payroll resources and a need for a pitcher (Seattle or LAD) wouldn't be willing to offer a B and C prospect for 1 year of a major league pitcher that will in all likelihood give you 20 quality starts, doesn't require a risky long-term deal, and will net you draft picks. If you wanted to contend next season, wouldn't you trade the equivalent of Ryan Sweeney and Jerry Owens for Garland and draft picks? I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. I agree with this a lot and this is why it is hard to say "so and so is worth one or two B spects." If someone said at the beginning of the year that both Ryan Sweeney and Josh Fields are B prospects then it would cause one to assume that they are more or less equal in terms of value. But Fields has way, way more value than Sweeney and that's been the case since Fields broke out in Charlotte during the 2006 season.

QUOTE(southsida86 @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 09:43 PM) If you were a Dodger fan, would you give up someone like Hu and Billingsley/Broxton for Garland? If you were a Braves fan would you give up Escobar or Lilibridge + some other prospects for Garland? Why doesn't anyone look at it that way but me? Realistically the only players with trade value are our young guys(Danks, Fields, Richar) or Buehrle, Javy, Jenks, and Konerko, and we don't want to move them. So yeah, I do think that Garland and Dye would bring minimal return( A combination of 2/3 the following C prospect/B prospect/a reliever with good stuff but bad results/a failed first round pick) and the rest of the roster would bring back a bag of balls. Billingsley and Broxton are on a different level than those other guys you are mentioning. Billingsley has ace potential and has been in the bigs for parts of 2 seasons while Broxton could be a very good closer for a long time. We're not getting anyone like that for Garland; we're going to be looking for high upside minor league players who are no more than one year away from contributing at the MLB level. If I was ATL, sure I'd give up one of my 3 SS for a SP, but ATL is probably the least likely trade candidate mentioned, at least for Garland, because they are already paying a ton of money to Hudson, Smoltz, and Hampton who may not even pitch next year. As far as what you think Garland's value is, again it depends on the team. Garland's value to a team like Seattle is going to be higher than it would be to a team like Texas for instance. I think Garland is going to be traded over the offseason and I'd bet the destination is Seattle or SD, probably Seattle because they have exactly what we need whereas SD isn't a good fit for the Sox. The only thing you need to know when trying to consider what Garland's value would be is the amount of money inferior pitchers are getting on the FA market. A solid #3 starter in the major leagues is worth a lot right now, especially in the age of the longterm contract. Garland is what, 28 or 29? And this is his eighth year in the Majors withoug any major injury, just tweaks here and there like any other player. In terms of age he is among the top leaders in the Majors in wins over that span. He pitches to contact and will get his share of groundballs although he's not exactly your prototypical groundball pitcher. He's smart and can induce the DP. Garland is about as sure of a bet as a #3 as you are going to find so he is the type of player that teams will not be as hesitant to give out a multiyear deal to. He's not a huge risk. As I said in another post, if Garland hit the market this year you'd definitely see what his value is in terms of dollars. He doesn't have the value he had last offseason obviously but his value is still there. Considering the weakness of this market you'll see Garland bring back a package greater than what KW got for Freddy. It remains to be seen, but two B prospects and a project is more like it. And it also depends on the prospects, because it's hard to rate all "B" spects equally. Two prospects like Balentien and Clement, especially Clement who is a catcher with good power, would rate better IMO than some other "B" spects would rate in terms of worth to the Sox organization.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 09:46 PM) None of them have trade value. If you traded either of them you'd be getting David Aardsma at best, but probably not even. Phillips is poor and Haeger is a knuckler. So no, they don't have trade value, and Masset has never been good in his career at any level so why would anyone give anything for him? Umm, I wasn't talking money. He's going to be a free agent, if I recall correctly. Why would anyone want him, though? Phillips is going to be a FA??? He's on the major league team. How is he going to be a free agent? He's on the 40-man roster and still has an option remaining. Maybe if he wasn't on the 40-man he could be a minor league FA, but I've never heard of anything like this. If you can find proof I'll believe you but I don't think that is the case at all. Each team does not value a player in the same way the Sox do. Each ballpark in the major leagues plays differently and each GM has different ideas of what he wants to do with his pitching staff. I always argue this when people b**** about our bullpen and say "oh, look at San Diego's bullpen! Why can't we have a bullpen comparable to San Diego's pen?" Well the reason is we play half of our games in a home run hitter's ballpark and we have to target guys with movement/stuff/awkward deliveries and such because our pitchers can't get away with the type of things a pitch who pays half his games in PetCo can. This explains why the Padres have had players like Chan Ho Park and David Wells in their rotation over the last few years. You can say the same thing for Seattle. There's no way the Sox would have Miguel Batista or Jeff Weaver in their rotation for example, but Seattle can afford to do that. While the Sox may not see Phillips as being worth a damn in this ballpark, he is the type of pitcher that can succeed in that kind of place because he's a lefty that throws strikes and pitches to contact. Also, since this all is stemming from my own trade idea, I imagine such a situation would be go down somewhat like this: The Mariners call up the Sox asking for Garland. KW wants Clement and Balentien because he knows he can ask for a lot since he;s dealing from a position of depth and the SP market is so thin. Seattle doesn't want to do that deal but they are told by the Sox that there isn't any way they are going to get Garland unless they give up Clement and Balentien. Seattle asks for more, specifically MLB-ready pitching, so the Sox say here, you can have any one of the following SP: Heath Phillips, Nick Masset, Charlie Haeger, Andy Sisco because those guys are all well behind Floyd, Gio, Egbert, and Broadway in our long term plans. The Sox also tell them that they can have their choice of one of the following relievers not in their plans: Aardsma, Day, Oneli Perez, Carlos Vasquez, Paulino Reynoso, Mike Myers. Let's say Seattle really wants Garland and they think they can extend him so they decide to do the deal. Of those players listed, if I was Bill Bavasi I'd take Phillips in a heartbeat because the one thing you can not have in a pitcher's ballpark is poor control. I'd probably take either Day or Aardsma to get a reliever with some upside and call it a deal. All in all, although unlikely, that is a very realistic deal IMO.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 09:21 PM) We're not going to add Heath Phillips to any offer so that another team will give us a top prospect. Heath's contract situation and mediocrity say, No. Contract situation? He's making the minimum and IIRC will still have an option left next year. We're talking about Seattle as well. The Sox would probably have to throw in something else like a problematic reliever or an A ball or rookie level prospect, but I think that could be a good deal for them. I don't know if other teams will view Heath as worthless as Sox fans do. Again, he throws 4 pitches for strikes at any count and pitches to contact. That recipe has worked well in Seattle before and for that organization I think he could fit in at the #5. Of course it remains to be seen how desperate Seattle is for a pitcher over the offseason but methinks they will be quite desperate as their organization has turned a corner this year and I doubt they'll want to revert back to the team they were over the last few years. Maybe they won't even try to deal for Garland unless Jon's agent is willing to negotiate a contract extension?

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 09:12 PM) 3E8 has been bringing up Seattle for the past couple months and they really make sense. I thought I remember reading a Seattle 'higher-up' having a liking for Garland. If we're dealing with Seattle, the guys the Sox should be looking at seems rather obvious to me -- Clement and Balintien. Both appear to be blocked, at least for 2008 and maybe even a year or two beyond that. In the OF Seattle has Jones, Ichiro and the newly-locked-up Jose Guillen, and behind the plate they have Johjima. I doubt the Sox could get both, unfortunately -- perhaps Sweeney + Garland could net both? You know this might sound crazy, but I think Garland + Heath Phillips could be a nice haul for Clement and Balentien. I doubt Seattle would want to give up that much but they will probably be desperate for SP so I could see them willing to start at one of those guys + a little bit more for Garland. To get both we'd have to throw in something else. Honestly though I think Heath could do himself well in that park. He throws strike and can throw any pitch in any count, and I think Sox fans usually underrate him. He's certainly not the crown jewel of our farm system, but in that park as a fifth starter I think he can put up an ERA under 5, which would be quite an improvement over what they've seen there over the last year. I really think though that the Sox are going to end up dumping Heath for essentially nothing and some team will get a decent bargain 5th starter because of it.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 09:00 PM) I think everyone is worried at the moment that KW is going to overpay and trade for relievers. Considering the state of our pen, it's easy to see why he wants to fill that need. And because there's not a lot out there in FA, if we're going to improve it, it's probably going to have to be with a trade, and that gets everyone worried. Keith brought up Atlanta as a good trading partner. The Dodgers could make sense, especially if they would include Hu in a deal. Jonathan Meloan perhaps as well? And Seattle loves Garland as well. So we've got options, and I hope KW isn't locked in to just trading Garland to improve the pen, he has to fill other needs and improve the farm system, he's got a LOT of work to do this off-season. If KW trades Garland for relievers he deserves to be fired. We need young position players. I don't think he will though and this is all just speculation from writers who do not follow the Sox. And if any of these rumors came out of some unpublished passing comment by KW, I think he's just trying to throw people off. I have to believe Kenny is smarter than that. I like the mentions of ATL, LAD, and SEA here because they have exactly what we should be targeting. A young corner OF with power (Balentien) or a SS (Hu, Escobar/Lillibridge) is a necessity in a deal for Garland. I always have to defend this when I say it, but I really would love to see the Sox make a serious play at Wily Taveras over the offseason. Since Anderson is probably out of the Sox plans, Owens doesn't have anything besides speed, and Sweeney still hasn't shown he's ready, I think something like Taveras for Broadway could be a good move for both teams. We get a CF and leadoff man and they get a SP who is ready and probably out of our plans. They'd probably want Egbert but that would be a bad idea IMO.

QUOTE(southsida86 @ Sep 9, 2007 -> 07:07 PM) Sorry Jason, but Garland has worse trade value right now and going into this offseason than Freddy Garcia did last offseason, and probably identical to Buehrle's before this season. with him making $12M on a 1 year deal, I'd be surprised if we could get more than a reliever coming off a down year, or a couple of prospects like we got in the Iguchi/Mackowiak trades. I think it is best to hang on to him and hope he has a first half like he did this season so we may be able to get something of value for him at the deadline next season. I have no clue what Kenny is doing for this team because in all honesty this is a 5 year rebuilding project. The only guys on our team who have trade value are Buehrle and Konerko. Everyone else is worth a bag of balls to other GMs. Is Garland a power pitcher who lost a bunch of velocity on his fastball? Don't think that's a good comparison and I don't think there is any truth anything that you say. Everyone but Burls and Konerko is worth a bag of balls? LMAO. You have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the FA market. The best pitcher is probably Schilling and the most interesting guys are reclamation projects like Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon, and Jennings. Players like Kyle Lohse will get paid out the ass. If Garland were to be a FA over this offseason he'd be the top FA pitcher available by a wide margin. Even after Garland had admitted having problems with his shoulder and he was starting to head south a bit, Atlanta still offered I believe Renteria and Kyle Davies for him. So what makes you think he isn't worth anything? Oh and your comment about acquiring a couple of almost non-prospects for him shows you have no idea what you're talking about at all. The Mackowiak trade was a salary dump of a bench player while the Iguchi trade was a friendly gesture to common trading partner Pat Gillick and a reason to get Danny Richar playing time at 2B. Iguchi didn't bring anything because he is a FA after this season and wasn't worth any draft picks. Sox fans may overrate Jon some, but looking around the league and seeing what kind of contracts other pitchers are getting it is easy to see that Jon could still be a good haul for us in the offseason if the Sox scouting department does their job. Someone else mentioned the Freddy for Floyd and Gio trade last year; I think Jon can do better than that. Probably two B prospects and a project in the upcoming market. Maybe even more from a desperate GM like what the Astros gave up for one year of Jennings over the offseason.

QUOTE(spiderman @ Aug 26, 2007 -> 05:11 PM) I have no issues with Rongey. Maybe he doesn't rant like some would prefer, but I have heard many post game shows where he offers constructive criticism of the team. I agree with this. Also, I say it's a good thing he's a Cards fan. If the Sox fans who call into that show are any indication then I don't want a diehard Sox fan on the radio. Wills was the exception but now he's gone. I think if you put a diehard in that situation it will be almost as annoying as that Pat and Tony show which I believe lasted almost half as long as "The Marine" lasted in theatres.

This thread should be titled "s***ty Articles Haunt Rogers' Credibility." Is there anything this guy doesn't b**** about? I agree with those who say the Vazquez trade was a good one. KW won a WS and did what he had to in order to improve the starting rotation and improve the team's chances of making the postseason. Also KW must have seen that a dropoff from the starting staff was possible if not probable, so at the time adding a veteran innings eater in Vazquez was going to give them something more dependable than McCarthy/El Duque and also save the bullpen some work. It takes balls to trade a prospect like Young for a shot at the present. I'd much rather have a ballsy GM willing to go the extra mile when the opportunity is there than have some cocksucker whose big winter additions after a 95-win season are Paul Byrd + Jason Michaels or Sidney Ponson + Ramon Ortiz. The only reason some douchebag sportswriter, and a bad one at that if I may say so, can complain to anyone is because the Sox didn't repeat in '06. If the Sox had won it all again it would have been very well worth it. As it is, considering Javy's contract and the state of the upcoming FA market without Burls or Zambrano available and turd-filled hotpockets like Kyle Lohse getting paid out the cornhole, Javy's value is going to be higher this year than it was when we traded for him in the first place. If KW wants to avenge a trade that really wasn't a bad trade at all, he can do it this offseason and actually come out ahead.

I'd tell the players that whoever hits the ball up the middle or to the opposite field the most gets to sleep with Scott Podsednik's wife. If that didn't work I'd hit golfballs at them while they were taking batting practice. BTW, this does not apply to JD, Thome, PK, or Fields. They can pull the ball as much as they'd like to.

Greg Walker! If you are going to hold the players accountable for their poor performances, fine. Good. But then you also have to hold the hitting coach responsible for players' poor performances, because essentially that is Walker's f***ing job. Maybe Walk is doing everything right, maybe not, but if 70-80% of your offense is hangin' out on the bench smokin' that crack then you need to dump the guy standing there watching them pass the pipe around.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 29, 2007 -> 12:39 PM) An example is this Valido kid, the SS. He has arguably major league defensive talent and a very good arm and is a pretty heady ballplayer. However his bat has been awful. They are going to devote every resource they have with him and make sure they give him every chance before they give up. Patience is the word. Just by looking at the ages of many of our minor league players, I'd say the Sox are patient enough. I imagine they will be as patient as possible with both Valido and Francisco Hernandez, who has also been very streaky and relatively slow developing (although he is a catcher and should be expected to take longer). I don't know how true this is, but I know the Sox have gotten ragged on a bit in the past for 'rushing' players like Arnie Munoz and Kip Wells. Then again, it's Arnie Munoz and Kip Wells. They've rushed Danks and McCarthy recently to good results. Obviously Danks has a way to go but IMO he has handled himself nicely during his rookie year when he really should have been in Charlotte. Unfortunately I agree with everything you say here, and I say unfortunately because I would bet on a lot of disappointed Sox fans next June when we pass up a good Borass client or two in order to take a projected mid-rounder with a top-5 pick.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Aug 22, 2007 -> 07:09 AM) This just shows why we need more platoon lineups. In 2008 we could platoon Erstad / BA in CF, Pods / Ozuna in LF, Sweeney / Terrero in RF and Dye / Thome at DH, Richar / Gonzalez at 2B, A.J. / Hall at C, Uribe / Cintron at SS and Konerko / Rogowski at 1B. Our only real problem for next year is needing a lefthanded hitting thirdbaseman to platoon with Fields. Ozzie clearly needs to use more platoons but any way you look at it we can't afford to lose a valuable platoon player like Podsednik. I think we need more starting caliber players, not more platoons. Besides, why the hell would you want to take AB's away from Dye to play Sweeney and Terrero? If we aren't going to bring a CF in and still keep Crede, start an OF of Fields-Anderson/Sweeney-Dye. I could see platooning Anderson and Sweeney in CF, but I'd end the platoons right there. Hopefully over the offseason Pods and Erstad take a cruise to the Bermuda Triangle together and disappear.

QUOTE(whitesox61382 @ Aug 8, 2007 -> 01:27 PM) I could see the Sox trying another prospect for prospect move(like Richar for Cunningham) to try and get a speedy young SS like Aybar or Hu, but short of that I don't see many options. Hu I would like but Aybar sucks. I'd take him as a bench player but no way in hell as a starter. Uribe and his no discpline >>> Aybar and the nothing he has to offer. I like the suggestions for Balentien and Quentin. That is the type of player we should target in a Garland trade, and if there is any way to get both of them without giving up a significant major league piece other than Garland, I'd rather have both so that there is a better chance of getting one useful slugger out of it. Then again, I wanted the Sox to rebuild but they aren't going to, which IMO is just going to lead to another disappointing 2008 season after everyone's hopes get built up over the offseason. I want Thome traded for prospects; yeah he has a NTC and only wanted to go to Chicago or Cleveland from Philly, but I'd think that would change if we went up to him and said "look, we're ripping this piece of s*** apart and it's your choice: go to LAAAAAAA and play for a contender or split time with WMP or whatever low risk/high reward hack we bring in while losing 90 games." I also want to shop Jenks, not necessarily deal him unless someone offers to bend over and take Little Kenny Williams hard up the butthole, but shop him, and then I'd like to see us hang on to most of these big-armed relievers and see if we can't build up their value enough over the 2008 season to get a couple very good prospects at the deadline. I know KW and his posse doesn't want to rebuild, but to me it's stupid not to. Kenny has the major league players in order to get some real good prospects, and all he has to do is make some deals over the offseason and then take one year - one simple f***ing year - to play a young team and see what holes we'd have left to fill. From that point KW could fill remaining holes via FA or by trading his prospects for actual major league players.

I just get a really good feeling about Josh, not like a boner or anything but a really warm feeling in my heart of hearts that makes me want to go out and buy his jersey. He's got a lot of pop and takes bad pitches nicely. As of this point he has played 383 games of professional baseball, and those 383 games are after playing football in college. Like I said, I just have a real good feeling about Josh. He seems to have good instincts in the field and is very athletic, and I think defensively he'll become almost as good as Crede going to his right and better than Crede going to his left. I also think that over the next couple of years his K totals will drop to around 100/year or so, his BB totals will climb quite a bit, he'll become more selective at the plate, and his home run totals will climb into the 30+ range. I think that 2-3 years from now, Josh will be looked at as the best position player on the team. Josh is the only position prospect we have, if you still want to call him that, that I'm excited about at all except Carter, but even Carter is very raw and very far away, and anything can happen between Kanny and Charlotte. In short: f*** The World, Josh!

It all really depends on whether or not he takes up gambling. If he does that, he's a shoe-in to pitch past 40 and win 300.

QUOTE(Yossarian @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 08:43 AM) Please tell me that you've changed your mind about that. I'm with you. I think there is about a 95% chance that Egbert, Gio, McCulloch, and Broadway out-pitch him in ST, about an 85% chance Phillips and De Los Santos out-pitch him in ST, and about a 60% chance Sisco, Massett, and a knuckle-less Charlie Haeger out-pitch him in ST. I say that because I saw everyone above except McCulloch, Egbert, and DLS pitch in ST and they all out-performed "Mental Pudding" Gavin Floyd.

Gavin Floyd is a human bobblehead with deplorable neck fuzz. The ball just jumps off of the bats of opposing major league hitters. I don't know what he can do to change that at this point. His fastball is mince meat and while his curve is pretty at times, he can't spot it like he has to. When the Sox were getting their asses handed to them in that doubleheader at home against Minnesota, I couldn't help but laugh at the fan reaction to Gavin in the Cell. Everything he threw up there drew an "ooooooh" or an"aaahhhhh" from the crowd because he was making these guys all look like Pujols. I don't just think Gavin is incapable of pitching in the Cell; I think he's incapable of pitching in the Major Leagues. He is the prototypical AAAA player because there is no way in frosty hell he could even survive in the bullpen. He makes Suckvich look like Mariano Rivera. I still the Freddy trade though because Gio should at least be a nice setup man.

I hope that over the offseason when similarly sucky starting pitchers are getting paid out the butthole someone comes along and offers to take Jose off our hands. I could see a lot of teams thinking Jose will never get his velocity back as a starter, but I wonder if over the offseason someone will take a shot at him as a setup man or a closer? I know the Mets have Shoenweis who I think is making $2million or more for a couple of years, and Baltimore has some bad contracts in their pen as well, so maybe the Sox can do something where they give up one of our cheap bullpen arms, assume a bad contract, and then pay $3million or so per season? Because if that could happen, some team would essentially be adding only $4-5million or so to the payroll, equally replace or upgrade their worst bullpen pitcher, and pick up a project. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part, but looking at the contracts the Weaver and Suppan got (yes Suppan, who is not the no. 2 starter he's being paid like) gives me some hope. Maybe we could even throw in Floyd and Bukvich and call it the dogs*** special.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 08:09 AM) The best available package for Dye was Hansen and Pena. You wanted him gone for that heap of stinking garbage? I agree with this. If we aren't going to bring back JD, all we have to do is offer him arbitration, let him walk, and take the two picks. Because of where we'll finish this year, we'll probably end up keeping our first rounder even if we sign a Type A free agent. So, that means we get at least 2 first round draft choices and I believe two second rounders. The way I see it, if we draft four players with high ceilings next year, and they all stay healthy for one full season, we'll have four players each with trade value at least close to the value of Hansen and probably higher than Pena. With those four players we should be able to trade for a major leaguer or two that would turn out better than what we'd get back from Dye. I say this because the Sox usually trade their picks, so as long as we do that I think the rumored Dye deal was a good one to pass up. If the Sox were able to get a real good prospect close to the majors I think Kenny probably would have done it. I like Hansen's potential but his numbers suck, and to me he is more of a throw in than a centerpiece.

QUOTE(Whitewashed in '05 @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 05:00 PM) ^^^ What do KW and Ozzie see in Erstad... he brings nothing to the table. You have a really cool avatar, too. I don't know what the Sox are thinking lately. Mackowiak, yeah, makes over 3 mil, but you can afford to pay a very good UT guy that kind of money. One player on your bench making that much money is justifiable because over the course of a season I think he more than earns that. What I can't understand though is playing and paying Pods and Erstad, who can't help us now or in the future in any capacity. At worst, Mack doesn't hurt us. Pods and Grinder Machine do, because their simple presence only adds more question marks to the 2008 OF and the organization's future as a whole. Even if Sweeney is brought up and sucks bad the rest of the year, at least we know we definitely have to address one more area of the OF. As it is, I could see the Sox going into 2008 thinking Sweeney is probably ready much the same way they went into 2006 thinking Anderson was probably ready. Nether Pods nor Erstad are going to bring us anything of value in a trade, and even if they bring some A ball spect with some little bit of potential, I'd gladly trade that for X amount of extra AB's for Ryan.