michelangelosmonkey

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 08:26 PM) Ask yourself this -- if the Sox have talent, why aren't they winning? Answer is, even with the potential of our players, there are other teams within the division with better teams. Oh, another is this supposed talent really isn't very talented. It's that simple. It's difficult to say, "oh, this worked in 2005," when you're discounting the strength of the American League central; particularly the Tigers. What makes me believe the same formula that worked in 2005 will miraculously reinvent itself in 2008, despite the fact this team has become progressively worse since the championship? Yourself, among others, have to provide a room-full of "ifs" to argue for a winning season in 2008. I offered like three ifs. Sometimes a 90 win team wins 80 games...sometimes it wins 100. That is the wonderful randomness of baseball. Konerko is a career .850 OPS guy. Remeber 2003 when he hit 18 homers with a .230 batting average? Then in 2006 he hit .313 with 35 homers. Same guy...no injuries...or Buehrle who has a career batting average against him of .268...same ballpark, same guy...in 2001 his batting average against was .230. Last year it was .305..it's all part of the great randomness of baseball. Accumulate talent then hope that you get the ups at the same time. The tigers are a good old team with Palonco, Guillen, Ordonez, Sheffield, Inge, Casey, Rodriquez, Jones, and Rogers all over 30. Their relief ace, star hitter and key pitcher all basically forty. Gilli, Robertson, Durbin are all 30. Detroit isn't a dynasty...they are a veteran team with the old guys pulling together with a couple of young talented pitchers.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 08:16 PM) Too many 'what ifs'. But back to your point, yes....a good leadoff hitter is paramount. And yes, we have some talent, but too much of that talent is one dimensional and it's not like Cleveland, Minnesota, and Detroit don't have this. In fact, Detroit and Minnesota both have pitching that is BETTER than the White Sox. In 2005 no one had better pitching than the White Sox, especially when it counted. So if your scenario that sees John Danks become the next Ron Guidry, Javier wins the Cy Young, and Gio becomes the next Steve Carlton play out then yes...we don't need a lot from our hitting...just a couple rabbits and 2 or 3 boppers to hit the occasional 3-run homer. Trouble is, our pitching LIKELY won't come to that, and we'll still have a horrible hitting shortstop who has the added talent of not being able to steal bases, and an outfield that is one of the worst I have ever seen. EVER. I think we ran an OF of Andy Gonzalez, Rob Mackowiak and Jerry Owens onto the field for one game a couple weeks ago. I don't know if Ozzie was laughing or crying when he made out that lineup card. Point is, I don't think in this division with the multiple teams we have to compete against ...all very difficult, it a smart thing to continue to run out geezers, injury-riddled players, guys who can't run a lick playing this station to station baseball against teams not only talented, but YOUNG and talented. As players like Grady Sizemore, Matt Garza, Andrew Miller, Joe Mauer continue to get better and better with more experience our guys just get older and older. The writing was clearly on the wall last year when even the Royals played better ball after the ASB and currently stand .5 games from pushing the Sox into last place. I am at peace with a rebuilding movement. The 2005 team was built with a bunch of deals where we sent prospects for established players. Deals Kenny made to get in Jose, Freddy, Garland (maybe before KW), Uribe, Pods, AJP...the acquistiion of Jenks, Hermy, Pollite, and Iguchi...Kenny nailed it, hit a homer, bringing in a bunch of solid guys to help win it all. Now, I'd like to see him go the other way, bring in serious future talent for our aging, but somewhat productive veterans. Wait a minute...I'VE got too many what if's? While this board is ready to trade Bobby Jenks for some minor leaguers? Listen EVERY scenario for every team involves what if's. You think the Red Sox this year weren't saying, "If Schilling stays healthy, and Dice-K can really pitch and Beckett returns to form..." of how about Cleveland who last year had a season about like the Sox year this year. You think Cleveland fans were saying...time to tear this baby down and trade key players having down years for other teams prospects? It is just not so that Detroit has better pitching than the White Sox. If you were drafting pitchers from these two teams it would be something like Verlander, Buehrle, Vaz, Garland, Bonderman, Danks, Durbin, Robertson. I'd certainly take JEnks over Todd Jones. And if you think the White Sox hitters are old...take a look at Detroits roster. And by the way...the Sox didn't have Guidry, Carlton or Cy Young in 2005. They had five #2 quality pitchers...who gave you quality starts into the 7th inning every day...then Cotts and Politte were nearly perfect in the 7th and 8th. And then Hermanson and later Jenks to close it out. This year you had Count lose his stuff and every quality relief arm KW brought in has blown up. This year, in spite of Cleveland and Detroit...if Count was the Count of the first half of last year...and we had two of 6 relief pitchers that were reliabe...we'd be battling for the WS.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 08:00 PM) Sadly, this isn't realistic. This team has been built with aging, injury prone players. Don't think for a second we didn't expect Thome, Erstad, and Pods not to spend some time on the DL. Toss in Joe Crede's back issues and the advancing age of J.Dye and his knee issues and it's no wonder we struggled. If we return the same crew next year, history says they will spend time on the DL. And when one of these guys goes down or the bullpen flames, we bring up players from our AAA who simply don't look like they belong in the majors. Josh Fields has shown the most promise and while Jerry Owens has a few skills I can't see him as a cornerstone CF for a serious championship ballclub. Remember how awful the offense was in 2005? Scratch and claw for every run. In that year we had Cotts and Polite pitch lights out in middle relief. Good starting pitching, good middle relief and a good closer...with just enough offense to win. That formula can work in 2008 or 09. Remember the Contreas of 17 wins in a row? What if that is Vaz next year? What if Danks is 20% better next year. What if Gio is rookie of the year. A team needs a bit of luck to win...and a some talent. Sox HAVE talent...it just didn't work this year. We'll get them next year (while we sit back and polish our WS trophy)

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:53 PM) So, if the Braves couldn't get Tex, and offered us Salty, Andrus, and Harrison for Jenks, you wouldn't make that trade? I'd rather have traded Konerko for that package. I think good hitting guys who are past thirty and aren't great fielders are easier to find than lights out 26 year old closer. I love Salty though

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:51 PM) Wow, we have a young affordable closer who is leading the AL in saves on one of the worst teams. That is something you dont trade, bar none. We have a young affordable closer who is leading the Al in saves on a team that won the WS 18 months ago. The team is NOT that bad. If they had any offense or any relief pitching in the first half we would be close right now. And next year? Buehrle-Garland-Vaz-Danks-and a rejuvenated Contreas (12 months ago at this time we were talking about the Count as one of the top five pitchers in baseball). We do NOT have to dismantle. Just fix long relief, lead off man and avoid injuries.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:46 PM) the metal in bobby's elbow would seem to indicate that he could get hurt Perhaps there is evidence out there that surgically repaired body parts are more likely to fail again than god given body parts. I'm just not aware of that study.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 06:08 PM) Not even close. Young may never hit above .250 in the bigs Batting Average? What is this the 1950's? Chris Young had a .377 on base percentage as a 21 year old in a pitchers park in Birmingham. His strikeouts went down in every minor league season and his walks per inning went up. So he has a good sense of the strike zone. He may not hit .300 any season. But that doesn't mean he couldn't be a .375 OBP guy with 50 steals and 40 homers and play good center field. But...yeah...maybe bad batting average.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 07:15 PM) 1. he's injury prone (screw in elbow, weight issues) 2. he's going to be cheap while we suck and expensive when we start winning 3. if you're trying to equate bobby jenks' value to that of pujols, you're off your rocker 3) I'm sorry but you are going to have to remind me where I said that Jenks=Pujols. What I said was Jenks = a prospect that looks so can't miss like Pujols did. But EVEN THEN...prospects miss. People talk about prospects like they are Xbox players. "well we just trade Jenks for these two studs prospects." As if those guys will just step in and become all stars. Here's Baseball Notebooks list of top hitting prospects December 2004. Delmon Young, Casey Kotchman, Brandon Moss, Jason Kubel, Ian Kinsler, BJ Upton, Wes Bankston. Justin Morneau, Jose Lopez and Ryan Garko. THat's top ten...the so called untouchables. So after the Sox terrible 2004...they should have just retooled by trading Buehrle for Jose Lopez and Wes Brankston...and people here would have rejoiced. Beware the sure thing for the hot prospect. 2) where is your evidence we are going to suck in 2008? 1) Where is the evidence he's injury prone? Since he's been in the majors he hasn't missed a beat. And weight issues? Yeah fatness has kept David Wells from enjoying a long career.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 04:25 PM) Uh ya, Chris Young is talented but not THAT talented. He's 23 and on pace for 30 homers, 30 doubles, 25 of 28 stolen bases...and a history of getting better as he figures out the league he's in? With plus defense? OK not Pujolos. But in three years he sure could be a top ten player in baseball.

QUOTE(Chet Lemon @ Jul 30, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) Jason Donald + another prospect? http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/st...&pid=453228 Why in the world would we trade Jenks for prospects? I'm kinda feeling like Jenks=Lee Smith. That reliable closer for the next ten years. He's on his third year of doing this job so successfully. Seems like a true relief ace is one of the hardest pieces to find...we have him, he's young and cheap. Sure he can look shaky at times...but I think his save percentage is great considering his young. Unless we can trade him for an Albert Pujols prospect...you don't trade (and by the way...who would trade an AP type prospect...accept, you know, us...go look at Chris Young play CF in 2008...sniff, sniff).

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 09:59 PM) What leverage did Wiliams have with the Iguchi situation? Once again, if the Sox kept Iguchi, they would have gotten NOTHING back when he left. With the Sox so far out, there was no reason to keep a 32 year old 2b, especailly when you have a young 2b prospect tearing it up in AAA, possibly ready to make the full time jump to the majors. I understand this. If I understand this, Gillick is as well, which makes Iguchi's value next to nothing. Not only is Iguchi a dime a' dozen, but I promise you if Iguchi could have brought back a draft pick, he either would have been kept, or brought back a better prosepct. You know, the negative stuff on Iguchi here and this season is a bit surprising. In 2006 he was top 10 OPS for all second basemen. In 2005 he was top ten OPS for all second basemen. This year more like 17th...but the last two months he's been more like the .780 OPS that his career average says he is. I love the potential of Richar...but I think Iguchi will be missed. Not a superstar...but a fine player that cost us nothing and filled the 2B spot professionaly for the last two years.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 02:56 PM) The Twins had a 13.5 game lead on September 20th. The Sox were never in it from like August on, and the Twins coasted to win the division. I didn't say they were in the race. I just said that they MIGHT have been in the race if Thomas and Mags had played all year and had typical years. The idea that the 2004 team was a crap team is wrong...it was an average team when you took out their two superstars. And it was the core of the team that won the WS the next year.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 08:27 PM) I'd taken the proven history of the durability of Garland/Buerhle/Vazquez over Verlander/Bonderman/Miller Durbin/Grilli/Seay/Jones are, for the long run not much better than McDougal/Jenks/Thorton. The little span from late May through June killed this team and I am not sure what happened. I also believe the AL Central is vastly overrated. This offseason none of the teams will improve themself except hopefully the Sox. Annointing Detroit's pitching seems crazy. Durbin is 30 and has been a 6.00 ERA guy for most of his career. Jones is FORTY and looks like he may be done (.282 BAA). Nate Robertson is old and smelly. Kenny Rogers is done. Even Bonderman has really only had this year where you would say he's great. Of course the Sox don't have anyone as good as Verlander. But that doesn't make them deep. Detroits winning because they are #1 in all of baseball for batting average, runs scored and slugging percent. And how long will that last? Magglio is 33 and having a career year. Shefield is 40. Ivan Rodriquez is 36. Carlos Guillen is 32. Polanco is 32. Brandon Inge is 30. If I was a Tiger fan I would be more nervous than a Sox fan (though I think they have a bunch of prospects coming up).

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 27, 2007 -> 10:17 AM) "Only" nine games back? In the Comedy Central? Ha! They weren't a good team. Not completely terrible, but definitely not good. Sox were 39-30 in games Frank Thomas started that year. He was hurt after 74 games or something like that. Then Magglio? Those are two guys that are 1.000 & .900 OPS guys. How good would Minnesota have been last year if Morneau and Mauer were out half the season? I think 82-80 with your two superstars off the team is kind of an indication of an underlying good team...the sort of team that with health and a few breaks might win the WS in a year or so.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 08:34 PM) Well, the one issue with that is that a Danks, Garland, Vaz, Buehrle, and Contreras rotation is a $45 million rotation next year. The Sox have experimented with havign 50%+ of their payroll tied up in 4-5 guys before, and it looked a lot like the 2004 team. It has some very good guys, but also has some very big holes because it's filled with whatever can be found cheaply, and if one of those key big guys has a bad year or gets hurt, there's really nothing available to replace them. Actually I think the 2004 team was a very good team. You just lost your two best players for most of the season...and still they finished 2nd only 9 games back. If Mags and Thomas had been healthy all year?? But I just went back and looked at that team and saw Rowands numbers....900 OPS for that season with great defense. .900 OPS for the Phillies for this season. Sandwiched in between are two .700 OPS seasons. That's baseball I guess. You make a run when your health is good and your Rowands are having their .900 OPS seasons.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 07:23 PM) This idea, which has been discussed at length before, is percisely why the trade route is necessary to acquire talent. And why Williams just doesn't need a good trade, he needs a Liriano-esque heist. Does anyone realistically believe this team can improve 12+ games over this season with limited upgrades consisting of a tweaked bullpen and Type B Free agents recovering from injury and/or a poor season? Just look at the various ways we've limited ourselves in acquiring talent: International talent has been abysmal; drafts have hardly been successfull; we're not overpaying for anyone in the free-agent market; we're unwilling to deal with a player representative in Scott Boras who typically represents the best players in the league (and amateur draft). Aside from these points, there are two teams in the division who -- at this point -- have a far better outlook over the next several seasons. Even trades consistent with the return of McCarthy or Garcia won't be enough. As perceive, both those trades are the equivalent of taking one step backwards and one and a half step forwards. We're improved, but hardly to the extent you'd expect from a trade involving multiple players. Several of which (Masset and Floyd) have been rather disappointing. We only win the Garcia deal because he's injured; but what does that really mean if Floyd doesn't improve and Gonzalez -- God forbid-- is injured/ineffective. Williams needs to make a trade before August 1st. I don't give a f*** about the value of lesser parts in Dye, Iguchi, or Contreras. He needs to realize how vital to the future of the ballclub a quality trade will be. We absolutely need it. Garland or Vazquez need to go -- it's that simple. If he can't work out a stellar package from either of those two he's an idiot. There will be no mercy from me. And Chisoxfn, according to your quote from yesterday, if Williams doesn't effectively rebuild/retool the White Sox for next season your view of him will change. Well, one of those points are going to be either proven or disapproven in several days. I've seen how people flip flop on this site and felt I should call you out on it beforehand. I think we get too emotional over this. Our only chance is a Liriano-esque trade? Why do we refuse to accept the fact that we still have the core of a World Series championship. In baseball sometimes a 90 win sort-of team wins 90, sometimes 100 and sometimes 80. There's an incredible amount of luck, injury, career-year, timing etc that goes into a turn around. It is NOT impossible that Contreas turns it around next year. Look at Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz who have had bad years followed by very good years. I mean we are only 12 month removed from the guy being the best pitcher in baseball. So we have a rotation of Buehrle, Garland, Vaz, Danks and Contreas...where Danks gets better and Contreas has a bounce back...anad Garland, Vaz and Buehrle are like they are this year. You cobble together enough offense ( remember the 2005 team was not very good offensively). Inject some fresh blood with good defense. I'm not saying it's going to happen...but I think anyone that thinks we have no chance in 2008 is also wrong.

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Jul 10, 2007 -> 07:18 PM) Wow. Good for him. I thought he should have come north with the team this spring for the bullpen. What is KW up to? After the All-Star break, the rotation could be Buehrle, Danks, Haeger, Gio, Pelfrey. If there is such a thing as an exciting GM, KW is it. Can't you just feel that something will be announced tomorrow? This means that after Floyd was sent down, the team he was trading a pitcher to realized that KW was not bluffing and met his demands. One of the starters must have been traded. Since Gavin had been sent down already, Haeger was brought up to fill the void. That's my attempt at figuring out KW's genius. I'll guess Garland is a Dodger and Kemp and Billingsley are on their way. If I'm right, I'll play the lotto this weekend. You know we so rarely mention this. I mean this isn't religion or health care...this is a sport and supposed to be fun. I have had more FUN with KW as GM than any in my near 40 years of being a baseball addict. HUGE trades...Jim Thome, David Wells...free agent signings...Jermaine Dye. Weird acquisitions...Iguchi. And at every trade deadline...he's one of the players. In the "game" of building a baseball team...KW is Reggie Jackson...maybe not the greatest ever but sure fun to watch and listen to.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 11, 2007 -> 10:56 AM) I've long compared Sweeney and Garret Anderson but I'd like to point out that I'd be absolutely stunned if GA did roids. GA doesn't even dive for baseballs because he claims diving would hamper his longevity in the game. His hr's dropped in correlation to his back issues flaring up and nothing more, imo. The guy, when healthy, is a fantastic all around hitter, but the problem is he probably will never be truly healthy again (too bad for the Angels both him and Salmon took there major dives right after they were given fat contracts with the club). This is the problem with the steroids age. Here is GA stats Garret at bats Homers At Bats/homer Minor League 2112 23 92 Majors 23-27 2908 73 40 Majors 28-31 2595 121 21 Majors 32-34 1560 48 33 All players have peak years...but this is oddly peak. That and he lived in California. Worked out with the Giambi brothers (according to Angels chat sight). Grimsley said it was going on in the Angels WS team. God knows its no evidence but it is a bit smelly. HOWEVER...in my research...how about Steve Garvey who added power...or Al Oliver. If Ryan Sweeney becomes Al Oliver we'd be fine. OK. I'm back on the Ryan Sweeney band wagon. But bring him UP. Al Oliver, Anderson, Garvey...were all major leagues by 22.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 10, 2007 -> 06:39 AM) IMO, he could be like Garret Anderson, with better OBP and defense, though with less power. Sweeney has the talent and the instincts to play for a long time in the majors. You're discounting how hard it is to hit near .300 in the minors, as if it's a bad thing. So he doesn't hit for 20 Hr's per year. the sox need more selective hitters, guys who can work counts, and hit for an average near .300. That he's not ready to play everyday in the majors this year is not a big deal, though he could have helped with all the injuries. The sox seem to be taking it slow with him, and let reserve guys like Terrero and Gonzalez get some irregular playing time. It seems like when they call up Sweeney the next time, they want him to stay for good [or at least get an extended look, like say in Sept]. He'll probably be ready in May or June of 2008 for the bigs. One thing to keep in mind is that Sweeney has only had 3 full seasons in the minors after being a high school player. He skipped low A ball after playing instructional ball after signing in 2003. That he's repeating AAA doesn't raise red flags. He's still on course to play one level of ball at a time. OK, I doff my cap to you. Garret Anderson is an excellant comparison. Though it sure seems like the rise and fall of GA's power numbers coincide with the steroid world. 8 homers in 624 at bats in 97, 35 homers in 620 at bats in 2000? Then 28, 29, 29...then testing comes in and he drops to 17? Also seems like Jason Grimsley hinted at steroid use with the Angels. So, yeah, if we could get Ryan on the juice I'm excited. As for discounting batting avearge. I fell for the Jeremy Reed mirage. If the only thing a minor league hitter does well is hit for average...well it doesn't translate well to the majors. Good pitchers know they won't have to fear walking him because the worst he would do is get a single anyway. Ryan seems to walk more than Reed does...so that's something. And yes the fact that he had an .802 OPS at AAA at 21 is very exciting. I'm just dscouraged with the .750 OPS at AAA at 22.

Gold? I think we as fans constantly over rate prospects. Here is Baseball Prospectus...the scientists of Baseball...top 40 for 2002. That means that roughly this is the #1 prospect for each team And I used 2002 because these guys should now be in their primes... Hank Blalock, 3B, Texas Rangers Josh Beckett, RHP, Florida Marlins Sean Burroughs, 3B, San Diego Padres Nick Johnson, 1B, New York Yankees Wilson Betemit, SS/3B, Atlanta Braves Carlos Pena, 1B, Oakland Athletics Joe Borchard, CF, Chicago White Sox Juan Cruz, RHP, Chicago Cubs Marlon Byrd, CF, Philadelphia Phillies Mark Teixeira, 3B, Texas Rangers Dennis Tankersley, RHP, San Diego Padres Jacob Peavy, RHP, San Diego Padres Austin Kearns, OF, Cincinnati Reds Mark Prior, RHP, Chicago Cubs Brandon Phillips, SS, Montreal Expos Adrian Gonzalez, 1B, Florida Marlins Angel Berroa, SS, Kansas City Royals Michael Cuddyer, 3B/1B/OF, Minnesota Twins Chris Snelling, OF, Seattle Mariners Jack Cust, "OF", Colorado Rockies Nick Neugebauer, RHP, Milwaukee Brewers Juan Rivera, OF, New York Yankees Carlos Hernandez, LHP, Houston Astros Ryan Anderson, LHP, Seattle Mariners Josh Phelps, C, Toronto Blue Jays Orlando Hudson, 2B, Toronto Blue Jays John Stephens, RHP, Baltimore Orioles Rafael Soriano, RHP, Seattle Mariners Justin Morneau, 1B, Minnesota Twins Ty Howington, LHP, Cincinnati Reds Morgan Ensberg, 3B, Houston Astros Corwin Malone, LHP, Chicago White Sox Alex Escobar, CF, Cleveland Indians Kenny Baugh, RHP, Detroit Tigers Jason Lane, LF, Houston Astros Ken Harvey, 1B, Kansas City Royals Bobby Hill, 2B, Chicago Cubs Nate Cornejo, RHP, Detroit Tigers Esteban German, 2B, Oakland Athletics (t) Carl Crawford, Josh Hamilton, OFs, Tampa Bay Devil Rays There is a lot of garbage in here and very few superstars. At that time we would have been drueling over a cub package of Bobby Hill, Mark Prior and Juan Cruz...today most of us would be ready to trade Jermaine Dye...a career .850 ops guy, Tad Iguchi probably a top 15 2B...at least offensively, and Jose Contreas who is one year removed from a 9-0 start....for Bobby Hill a failed prospect and two failed pitchers. Beware the fire sale...beware.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 11:41 AM) I should have specified that $8M/year from the Sox is drunk thinking. The Sox have too many holes to fill to gamble that amount of money on a player like JD. Now a team who just has a couple of holes, namely DH and LF, yeah, they may take a flyer at $8M/per. Let me put it to you this way...if you're KW would you rather pay JD $8M next season or would you rather get 2 decent relievers to fill out the pen? I don't know, man. There are so many holes on this team that it's tough to even speculate what will happen. Like you said, if we spend the money elsewhere, ie. relief pitching, then we've still got a gaping hole in LF with no one in the ml system to fill it. I think spending money on relief pitching is an even bigger crap shoot than it is on Dye. Middle relief is typically guys that arne't good enough to be starters or aces. So you get a bunch of B prospects that have up and down years. Could we all agree...$6 mill for Dye for leftfield, two years, third year team and player option? And by the way...the difference between .270/30 and .290/35...I'd take either one of Pods or Erstad.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) Sweeney should be fine. He's progressed each year, despite being one of the youngest wherever he's been. He just needs a full year in AAA, though I see a Sept. callup [or sooner if a trade happens]. Sweeney should be an above avg defender, hit for an avg near .300, have an OBP over .350, and hit 10+ HR's. His lack of HR power isn't a concern if you get HR's from elsewhere. So Jay Payton? I don't know...I'm struggling to find a comparable guy. Walks a little bit but not much. Hits for very little power. No speed. He's no longer the youngest at AAA and is repeating a level and is NOT progressing. Last year he hit .296 with 13 homers. This year he's at .285 with 5 in more than half as many at-bats. He'll find less pitchers that will make mistakes to him in the majors for him to hit singles if he can't hit for power and doesn't own the strike zone. I remember when Harold Baines came up they said his power would come...but at 22 he was in his second year in the majors and was hitting a dozen homers at 21. Just give me an example of a major leaguer like him...and I'll be more comfortable.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 11:04 AM) Even if he goes to one of the worse teams in baseball, we will still get decent picks. Worse case you don't get as many first rounders but you are still getting talent (plus often times you can get first round talent a little later if you pay extra). I would be all for Dye if you got him at a bargain. 8 mill a year isn't that. You get him to agree to an incentive laden 2-3 year at 4-6 mill deal and I'd think that would be a decent option with the club than finding a CF and sticking with youth in the other spot. I should point that we would be signing Dye as a LF, not a RF. Note: I still think a team will give him around 3yr 24 mill and that could turn into a good deal but it is also too much for the Sox to pay when there are guys like Ichiro, Andruw Jones, Aaron Rowand, and Torri Hunter out there. I'm not positive on how the compensation works...but I think he has to be top 10 at his position to get the two picks. They use two years I think...so I wouldn't bet that he's a sure thing for compensation. I do like your 4-6 mill with incentives idea. But as for Ichiro, Jones, Rowand, Hunter? I suspect they will all be way more expensive than $8 mill per.

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 10:56 AM) If he doesn't improve this season and thinks he's going to get $8M from someone, he's drunk. If he got his true market value (no defense, low average, moderate power) of somewhere between $4-5M/per for 2 years I'd keep him on in LF. Maybe $8 mill is high...but drunk? Carlos Lee has the same career OPS as Dye, is 1 year younger and just signed for $15 mill per. If you say we have some guy in our system that can put up an .800 OPS in left field and will be cheap. Great. Who is he? IF there is some free agent we can get INSTEAD of JD for $8 mill that will put up an .800 OPS for left field...who's that guy?

QUOTE(Al Lopez @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 10:45 AM) Extending Dye would be as stupid a move as could be made. Thanks JD, but see ya. Why exactly? Because you suspect he's done? People thought that about him a couple of years ago and he's been a huge value for the Sox. So many people would rather see Ryan Sweeney in right field and I think...other than being young (and not SO young anymore) what has he ever done? An OK singles hitter. And that's better than JD at a bargain?