29andPoplar

why is that

I suspect you may not like the answer but here it is, first of all he was signed through 2006. Williams and Hahn wanted to lock up their starting staff to manageable contracts because the financial cost of starting pitching was (still is?) spiraling, going up big time. Further it was my impression at the time that his agent would not have accepted a two year extension. Everyone else was getting 3 years. I'm sure there are some what if's and why's in there but these were the basic reasons behind it.

Lots of guys his age still pitch quite well. Contreras kind of gave away the age thing in an interview a couple of years ago when he mentioned how many years he lived in Cuba. The math then concluded he is two years older, born Nov. 1969 vs. Nov. 1971. He is extremely well conditioned. Perhaps too much. The staff has spoken about getting him to back off on all the pregame rituals and all the between start conditioning. It is grueling what he does, most people half his age couldn't do it. If you ever meet the guy he is solid like a mountain. Velocity drops aren't necessarily arm problems. He has had nagging back and leg issues and a change in his conditioning routine may very well help him. I suspect if the Sox conclude that's what's going on, they will be more insistent he backs it off a bit. Something has to give, what he's throwing up there now isn't working.

What I believe will happen is this, if he's not traded by Tuesday then he'll make the start at Yankee Stadium (which I will be attending in person due to an alumni event) as scheduled, and soon thereafter he will see some DL time, for the purpose of 1. giving him a breather 2. letting him fix some mechanical issues 3. give Gavin Floyd his starts for a while. Personally I sense his back and legs are giving him problems. He's not driving down on the follow through.

As for the people who are angsting and concerned Podsednik will be back in 2008, I believe that ship has sailed. They want to retool the team.

Ha ha, nice post! I would bet their fans are angry at the moment, their bullpen sprung a leak in this series and the Game 2 of the DH must have stung. Today it looked like they had a favorable pitching matchup but the White Sox pitching was good. For the most part, the Tigers fans I've spoken to are pretty realistic, they believe it'll be a neck and neck race with Cleveland to the end. Tigers are sniffing around for bullpen help and have prospects to get something done.

No problem sir, for what it's worth which I guess is not much I tend to agree with your baseball viewpoints in this thread.

Not my business, and very respectfully to other posters but I would say the insults are about even up. Can we talk baseball please.

how about 35 years. Ed Short, John Allyn, and especially Bill Veeck.

The landscape is changing and the lack of activity near the deadline (thus far anyway) is a good indication. No one wants to give up young cheap talent easily, especially for a rental, with parity and a weak NL being major factors. Williams will have to adjust, he may not get the player(s) he wants for guys like Contreras, Dye, Iguchi, etc. I see Iguchi being traded by Tuesday because they already have a potential replacement and I don't think they get draft choices if he departs via FA. Part of Williams adjusting was launching Shaffer. He wants to gamble on higher ceiling guys and there were philosophical differences there. Big time. Not sure Laumann has a totally different philosophy than Shaffer but he sure as hell knows what KW wants and will carry it out. More and more teams are trying to find the "undiscovered" or "undervalued" or "bounce back" players vs. spending big huge coin. And why wouldn't they. Further, next spring I think you will see more minor league guys brought into camp for depth (Ozuna type guys, Mike Fontenot of the Cubs type guys), guys who haven't had a clear cut chance and might surprise. The point being, just about every team will look for undervalued and bounce back guys, the White Sox as you correctly state have always done this and it will continue. Not to mention more and more teams are valuing draft picks higher with the increased emphasis (mandate?) on sticking with slot bonuses. Teams feel they will get economic value for their draft picks more than ever.

Moving Loaiza was Williams and Guillen and Hahn drooling over Contreras, thinking they could harness the talent if they got him out of NY. Yankees couldn't cut some other deal they were trying to do, they wanted to cut a deal badly, and it came together at the last hour, literally. Lucky is one way to describe it, good proactive management is another. Probably both, to be fair.

Excellent point, nicely stated.

What's the difference what scouts say about these trades? Seriously, these scouts have a big time agenda too. They have their turf to protect, their reputations to protect, their bosses backsides to cover, etc. Internet posters have agendas too, especially if what a scout says jives with their opinion. Not knocking anyone here, just saying. For every scout who poo-poo'd these guys, you'll find another scout who praises them to the high heavens. A Philadelphia scout was quoting anonymously that the Sox did a great thing picking up Floyd, all he needed was a change of scenery. Whoever these scouts are that supposedly prove internet posters' opinions correct, let's look at their entire body of work and see how often they've been right ... and wrong. Ask the Philly fans what they think of Freddy Garcia. Ask the Rangers fans what they think of Brandon McCarthy. Ask Seattle fans what they think of Jeremy Reed. And so on. The list goes on and on. On both sides of the coin. So when I hear some SoxTalk poster has scouts as sources ... great ... it makes for interesting reading, one body of opinion ... and that's it. If those scouts were infallible they'd be doing something else, perhaps something higher up. For the record, I talked to a LAA personnel guy in Arizona this spring, he thought the Sox made a great trade to get Floyd and echoed he felt Floyd needed a change of scenery and this would help him. Interesting chatter, but so what. It's one opinion of many.

Wasserman looks like he's willing to trust his stuff and attempt to throw strikes. How far that gets him, who knows, but he doesn't look afraid out there.

Seriously though? In four starts since coming off the DL, McCarthy is 0-3, 4.64 ERA, 21.1 innings pitched, 22 hits, 13 runs, 11 earned, 10 walks, 12 strikeouts, and hasn't gone more than 6 innings innings in any of the four starts. Fantastic is not the adjective I'd use.

Brewers win in Cincy 5-3.

And what I hear from a few people who work for the White Sox about Williams is this - - extremely hard working - ultra competitive - has a short fuse - demands excellence - often will snap at people and then (sometimes) apologize later - when he doesn't want to be bothered he will clearly show that on his face (stay clear of me!) - tends to hole up with those he completely trusts (Rick Hahn especially) - takes losing extremely hard and sometimes blows off steam in ways that cause hard feelings (verbally)

Interesting. Especially the 2nd sentence so if you don't mind, I would like to ask, why are you totally biased in wanting him canned? Thx.

Podsednik activated and Terrero to the 15 day DL.

Bob Fontaine, yes. He was an outside perspective, not one of the White Sox lifers. As mentioned I expect to see more people from other organizations brought in, much like they brought in Wilder.

A couple of them are Chisoxfn and Williams actually talked the scouting staff out of taking one of the sons again this year and he was picked by the Rockies. I will look it up. Also to your comments about Laumann, I agree, I think of the two (vs. Shaffer) Laumann is a better choice but I also fully expect there will be some new blood brought in after the season, Laumann doing the hiring with KW's stamp of approval and quite possibly Wilder's and/or Regier's heavy input. There is a sr. scouting guy from the Reds who has been linked with the White Sox a few times in the past. It was the same son, Kenny Williams Jr. who was taken by the Rockies this year. 32nd round out of Wichita State, where KW Jr. had transferred. He is not listed as signed in the database, but clearly he has been identified as having potential. Pretty sure KW's son Kyle is a good athlete as well, I believe he's a 2B.

Don't know for sure but I think the Rockies redrafted him or maybe it was one of the other 4 brothers.

Lastly here is Shaffer's 2000 draft. 1. Joe Borchard, of Stanford 2. Tim Hummel, ss Old Dominion 3. Mike Morse, ss Nova HS, Ft. Lauderdale 4. Alvin Jones, rhp Seguin (Texas) HS 5. Tony Richie, c Bishop Kenny HS, Jacksonville, Fla. 6. Bjorn Ivy, of Shannon (Miss.) HS 7. Eddie Young, of Jones County HS, Macon, Ga. 8. Chris Amador, ss Crespo HS, Camuy, P.R. 9. Jason Aspito, 3b Loyola Marymount 10. Heath Phillips, lhp/1b Evansville Central HS, Evansville, Ind. 11. Tommy Nicholson, 2b Texas 12. Mike Spidale, ss Nazareth Academy, Chicago 13. Derek Wigginton, of Alabama 14. James Sweeney, lhp Holy Cross (Mass.) College 15. John Lackaff, 2b Miami (Ohio) U. 16. Brian Graham, rhp Portland 17. Ryan Liermann, 3b Downers Grove South HS, Downers Grove, Ill. 18. Curtis Young, rhp Lamar (Colo.) CC 19. Scott Perhla, lhp Southridge HS, Miami 20. Etienne Ratte-Delorme, rhp Edouard Montpetit (Quebec) College 21. Joe Solis, rhp Columbus HS, Miami 22. Gerron McGary, lhp Nashville (Ark.) HS 23. Rylan Reed, rhp/1b Crossett (Ark.) HS 24. Kyle Boyer, 3b Temecula Valley HS, Temecula, Calif. 25. Travis NeSmith, lhp Gulliver Prep, Miami 26. Victor Martinez, of Barbara Goleman HS, Hialeah, Fla. 27. Brad Murray, lhp Embry-Riddle (Fla.) U. 28. Kyle Bohannan, rhp Arkansas 29. Anthony Monegan, of Kishwaukee (Ill.) JC 30. Brian Keating, rhp Lewis & Clark(Ill.) CC 31. Darren Ciraco, of Briarcliffe (N.Y.) JC 32. Brandon Bounds, of Mansfield (Texas) HS 33. Jeff Lundgren, c Chaparral HS, Scottsdale, Ariz. 34. Ricky Spivey, rhp Glen Este HS, Cincinnati 35. Michael Oehlberg, lhp Kishwaukee (Ill.) CC 36. Armando Perez, lhp Southwestern (Calif.) JC 37. Matt Maley, of Killian HS, Miami 38. Tom Gorzelanny, lhp Marist HS, Orland Park, Ill. 39. Tyrel Davis, 3b/of Columbia Basin (Wash.) CC 40. Jarod Tate, lhp Lumberton (Texas) HS 41. Brian Barr, rhp Arkansas HS, Texarkana, Ark. 42. Fernando Alvarez, of Dodge City (Kan.) CC 43. Brian Schweiger, c Fontana (Calif.) HS 44. Dustin Knight, c North Little Rock (Ark.) HS 45. Danny Girardo, of Coral Park HS, Miami 46. John Grose, c Green Valley HS, Henderson, Nev. 47. Corry Parrott, of Long Beach State 48. Jason Hutton, of UNC Charlotte 49. Tony Sterioti, rhp Kishwaukee (Ill.) JC 50. Freddie Mitchell, of UCLA Talk about unimpressive. They knew Gorzelanny from their back yard but didn't sign him. This draft is as close to a total bust as you'll find.

Now for sake of comparison, here is Shaffer's 2004 draft. Remember that many (most?) of the amateur scouting staff was the same, Laumann was doing pro scouting after being reassigned. 18 18 Josh Fields 3b Oklahoma State U. OK $1,550,000 1S 4 34 Tyler Lumsden lhp Clemson U. SC $975,000 1S 8 38 Gio Gonzalez lhp Monsignor Pace HS, Miami FL $850,000 2 12 53 Wes Whisler lhp UCLA CA $660,000 2 18 59 Donny Lucy c Stanford U. CA $525,000 2 28 69 Ray Liotta lhp Gulf Coast (Fla.) CC FL $499,000 3 18 89 Grant Hansen rhp Oklahoma City U. OK $430,000 4 18 119 Lucas Harrell rhp Ozark (Mo.) HS MO $270,000 5 18 149 Brandon Allen of Montgomery (Texas) HS TX $175,000 6 18 179 Adam Russell rhp Ohio U. OH $140,000 7 18 209 Tim Murphey lhp Glacock County HS, Gibson, Ga. GA $120,000 8 18 239 Nick Lemon rhp Brigham Young U. UT $54,000 9 18 269 Ryan McCarthy 3b UCLA CA $70,000 10 18 299 Adam Ricks 2b U. of Miami FL $25,000 11 18 329 Garry Bakker rhp U. of North Carolina NC 12 18 359 Daron Roberts of Cal State San Bernardino CA 13 18 389 John Egbert rhp Rutgers U. NJ 14 18 419 Michael Swain 3b Wabash Valley (Ill.) JC IL 15 18 449 Carlos Torres rhp Kansas State U. KS 16 18 479 Fernando Alvarez of Florida International U. FL 17 18 509 Jacob Wild rhp Bakersfield (Calif.) JC CA 18 18 539 Brett Scarpetta rhp Hononegah HS, Rockton, Ill. IL 19 18 569 Caleb Cooper 3b Cal State Hayward CA 20 18 599 Michael Dubee rhp Riverview HS, Sarasota, Fla. FL 21 18 629 Brian Flores lhp Carlsbad (N.M.) HS NM 22 18 659 Matt Mansilla ss American Heritage HS, Pembroke, Fla. FL 23 18 689 Derek McNeil ss St. Leo (Fla.) College FL 24 18 719 Josh Hansen c U. of San Diego CA 25 18 749 Justin Sincock rhp Millikan HS, Long Beach, Calif. CA 26 18 779 Danny Jordan 3b Gulliver Prep, Miami FL 27 18 809 Logan Williamson lhp Pensacola (Fla.) JC FL 28 18 839 Greg Young of Delaware Tech JC DE 29 18 869 Frank Viola rhp Florida CC FL 30 18 899 Mike Zaleski rhp Indiana State U. IN 31 18 929 Nicholas Walters lhp Mountain Ridge HS, Desert Hills, Ariz. AZ 32 18 959 Eric Sheridan rhp Saddleback (Calif.) JC CA 33 18 989 Brandon Cooney rhp Broward (Fla.) CC FL 34 18 1019 Mario Suarez 3b Florida International U. FL 35 18 1049 Evan Tartaglia of Elon U. NC 36 18 1079 Ken Williams of Plainfield (Ill.) HS IL 37 18 1109 Robert Grinestaff c Okaloosa-Walton (Fla.) CC FL 38 18 1139 Shaun Spearman ss St. Pius X HS, Atlanta, Ga. GA 39 18 1169 James Leigh lhp Bryant (Ark.) HS AR 40 18 1199 Justin Roelle lhp Iowa Western CC IO 41 18 1229 Matthew Rozier rhp Meridian (Miss.) CC MS 42 18 1258 Michael Schower lhp Riverview HS, Sarasota, Fla. FL 43 18 1287 Ian Murray rhp Jefferson (Mo.) JC MO 44 18 1316 Stephen Muck rhp Covington Catholic HS, Park Hills, Ky. KY 45 18 1345 Jason Sullivan rhp Crowder (Mo.) JC MO 46 18 1374 Jason Rodriquez ss Alta Loma HS, Rancho Cucamonga, Calif. CA 47 18 1403 Richard O'Brien c Connors State (Okla.) JC OK 48 18 1432 Peter Vuckovich c Clarion (Pa.) U. PA 49 18 1460 Dennis Guest 2b St. Joseph's (Ind.) College IN 50 18 1488 Bryan Wagner rhp Thunderbird HS, Phoenix AZ As you can see it's still a little early to judge this draft. In particular you have very raw talent like Brandon Allen who is just now finding his way in Low Class A and is showing promise. Egbert and Adam Russell have also shown promise but haven't made it yet. Gio Gonzalez is in there, but there are some others who are clear misses.

The other aspect to consider is looking at these draft results big picture. If it is a GM's philosophy to trade prospects for useful parts then the scouting guys better find guys other teams want to trade for. It is an entire organizational approach. I will give some credit to the scouting guys for finding guys other teams will trade for, there are several on the lists 2001 - 2003. One advantage to changing the drafting philosophy is that potentially higher impact guys are usually younger and therefore will take a bit more time to reach their potential. Which also gives the GM and his staff more time to trade the player, if some other team is hot for him and will offer up a proven useful part. Anthony Webster was one example, Daniel Haigwood another, there are prob. a few more.