29andPoplar

Quick analysis which I will edit as I review each list - 2001, a miss on Honel. Giving up a 1st round pick to sign an aging Sandy Alomar, dumb. Wyatt Allen, this was a guy throwing 95 and higher for Tennessee but then he came into the system and tanked. They did not sign the 3rd or 4th rounders, the catcher went to LSU and I think the Cubs ended up drafting him a couple of years ago and he flamed out. Jay Mattox was a CF prospect and I don't know where his career is. Then you see Ryan Wing who they got back on waivers and although he is 25 now he may still have some promise, he is doing some decent things in Birmingham but he certainly can't be counted as a major leaguer. Fringe guys like Andy Gonzalez and Chris Stewart were chosen. Chris Young stands out, Anthony Webster helped get a key piece in Carl Everett. Lou Palmisano the catcher made the show and Charlie Haeger is there but it's fair to say Haeger didn't throw the knuckler then. They did not sign Palmisano as I recall. Basically 2001 was not a good draft but not a total bust either. 2002: Ring, Reed, and Rupe all made the big leagues. Each was traded for other parts. To me it is ok to get guys who show promise that other teams want and you make the trades for things you need. Sox fans loved Reed and lots of teams would've traded for him, Sox got Garcia and that worked out. Then there are some misses, then fringe guys like Sean Tracey and Daniel Haigwood. Brandon McCarthy is in there, as is Boone Logan. Those are some good picks. Jay Marshall is also in the big leagues, they let him go in last yr's Rule 5. 2003: Anderson at the top and then Sweeney. OK, not great. Then a whole bunch of misses, power arm guys who they couldn't harness. Nachreiner was the guy with a great arm and bad knees, a gamble that didn't work. Veal and Hodges and Moviel are guys they didn't sign but appear to be decent talent. Veal is in the Cubs system. Other than that I don't see a whole lot from 2003. To me, these drafts are most fairly evaluated 4 years afterwards. I would grade these drafts average at the very best. Slightly below average is probably better. If you look at a 3 yr. snapshot of most other teams drafts you will find much the same thing. Two of the better drafting teams are in our division and that's a problem. The next area to be scrutinized is player development.

Here is 2003: 15 Brian Anderson of U. of Arizona AZ $1,600,000 2 15 52 Ryan Sweeney of Xavier HS, Cedar Rapids, Iowa IA $785,000 3 15 82 Clint King of U. of Southern Mississippi MS $440,000 4 15 112 Robert Valido ss Coral Park HS, Miami FL $285,000 5 15 142 Matt Nachreiner rhp Round Rock (Texas) HS TX $200,000 6 15 172 Chris Kelly of Pepperdine U. CA $140,000 7 15 202 James Casey rhp Azle (Texas) HS TX $120,000 8 15 232 John Russ rhp Frank Phillips (Texas) JC TX $80,000 9 15 262 David Cook of Miami (Ohio) U. FL $40,000 10 15 292 Fraser Dizard lhp U. of Southern California CA $153,000 11 15 322 Ricky Brooks rhp North Tonawanda (N.Y.) HS NY 12 15 352 Donald Veal lhp Buena HS, Hereford, Ariz. AZ 13 15 382 Wes Hodges ss The Baylor School, Ooltewah, Tenn. TN 14 15 412 Ricardo Nanita of Florida International U. FL 15 15 442 Greg Moviel lhp St. Ignatius HS, Cleveland OH 16 15 472 Cody Dickens rhp Surry (N.C.) CC NC 17 15 502 Guillermo Martinez ss Coral Park HS, Miami FL 18 15 532 Cory Haggerty 2b Cortland State (N.Y.) U. NY 19 15 562 Mike Moat rhp San Diego State U. CA 20 15 592 Jeff Schmidt ss Mira Mesa HS, San Diego CA 21 15 622 Matt Lenderman c Plano (Texas) East HS TX 22 15 652 Travis Doyle lhp Grand Rapids (Mich.) CC MI 23 15 682 John Hurd rhp JC of Southern Idaho ID 24 15 712 Burke Baldwin lhp Neuqua Valley HS, Naperville, Ill. IL 25 15 742 Antoin Gray 3b Southern U. LA 26 15 772 Logan Williamson lhp Penscola (Fla.) Catholic HS FL 27 15 802 Dwayne Pollok rhp Texas A&M U. TX 28 15 832 Van Pope 3b Meridian (Miss.) CC MS 29 15 862 Gerardo Cabrera of Miami-Dade CC South FL 30 15 892 Brandon Lowe 1b Vidalia HS, Mt. Vernon, Ga. GA 31 15 922 Robbie Grinestaff c Jeffersonville (Ind.) HS IN 32 15 952 Josh Morgan of Meridian (Miss.) CC MS 33 15 982 Alex Acevedo ss Dr. Carlos Gonzales HS, Aguada, P.R. PR 34 15 1012 Scott Martin of Delaware State U. DE 35 15 1042 Sean Thompson lhp UC Santa Barbara CA 36 15 1072 Paul Moviel rhp Kishwaukee (Ill.) JC IL 37 15 1102 Neil Giesler 1b Okaloosa-Walton (Fla.) JC FL 38 15 1132 Michael Mendrin lhp Central HS, Fresno, Calif. CA 39 15 1162 Jason Sullivan rhp Joplin (Mo.) HS MO 40 15 1192 Matt Deuchler c James Madison U. VA 41 15 1222 Rolando Acosta ss Pima (Ariz.) CC AZ 42 15 1251 Eric Everly lhp Olney Central (Ill.) JC IL 43 15 1280 Dustin Shafer ss Russell HS, Flatwoods, Ky. KY 44 15 1308 Brandon Johnson 2b Crowder (Mo.) JC MO 45 14 1335 Mitchell Woolf rhp JC of Southern Idaho ID 46 14 1362 Greg Del George ss Monsignor Farrell HS, Staten Island, N.Y. NY 47 14 1389 Richard O'Brien c Catholic HS, Little Rock, Ark. AR 48 14 1416 Mike Alvarez rhp Monsignor Pace HS, Opelika, Fla. FL 49 14 1442 Tim Edmeades 3b Buena Regional HS, Weymouth, N.J. NJ 50 14 1468 Sean Gaston c Brownsburg (Ind.) HS IN

Here is 2002: 1. Royce Ring, lhp, San Diego State U. 2. Jeremy Reed, of, Long Beach State U. 3. Josh Rupe, rhp, Louisburg (N.C.) JC. 4. Ryan Rodriguez, lhp, Keller (Texas) HS. 5. B.J. LaMura, rhp, Clemson U. 6. Chris Getz, ss, Grosse Pointe (Mich.) South HS. 7. Micah Schnurstein, 3b, Basic HS, Henderson, Nev. 8. Sean Tracey, rhp, UC Irvine. 9. Todd Deininger, rhp, Texas A&M U. 10. Orionny Lopez, rhp, Forest Hill HS, West Palm Beach, Fla. 11. Matt Herring, 1b-of, Georgia Southern U. 12. Jason Ruhlman, lhp, L'Anse Creuse North HS, Macomb, Mich. 13. Demetrius Banks, lhp, Chattahoochee Valley (Ala.) CC. 14. Christian Madson, rhp, Bloomingdale HS, Valrico, Fla. 15. Adam Larson, rhp, Middle Tennessee State U. 16. Daniel Haigwood, lhp, Midland HS, Batesville, Ark. 17. Brandon McCarthy, rhp, Lamar (Colo.) CC. 18. Shane Scoville, c, U. of South Alabama. 19. Paul Keck, c, Granada HS, Pleasanton, Calif. 20. Boone Logan, lhp, Sandra Day O'Connor HS, Helotes, Texas. 21. Seth Morris, of, U. of Kentucky. 22. Eric Keefner, 1b, Mesa (Ariz.) CC. 23. David Beasley, lhp, Cooper City (Fla.) HS 24. Thomas Brice, 1b-of, Faulkner State (Ala.) JC. 25. Jay Marshall, lhp, Jefferson (Mo.) JC. 26. Kris Dufner, ss, U. of Delaware. 27. Michael Bohlander, 1b, Pace U. 28. Hector Ambriz, rhp, Valencia HS, Placentia, Calif. 29. Neil Giesler, 3b, Jasper (Ind.) HS. 30. Jacob Nowlen, rhp, U. of Arkansas-Monticello. 31. Edgar Varela, 3b, Long Beach State U. 32. Rick Hummel, rhp, U. of Indianapolis. 33. Tony Sipp, lhp, Okaloosa-Walton (Fla.) CC. 34. Brandon Durden, lhp, Cook (Ga.) HS. 35. Eric Everly, lhp, Seagoville (Texas) HS. 36. Jason Pilkington, lhp, Central Arizona JC. 37. Jamin Hutchingson, rhp, Fayetteville (Ark.) HS. 38. D.J. Wabick, of, Stagg HS, Palos Park, Ill. 39. Gabriel Casanova, 2b, Coral Park HS, Miami. 40. Dennis Pawelek, rhp, Snow (Utah) JC. 41. Daniel Barone, rhp, Monterey Peninsula (Calif.) JC. 42. Ian Ganzer, rhp, Wellington (Fla.) Community HS. 43. Matthew Sibigtroth, ss, Kishwaukee (Ill.) JC. 44. Ramon Castro, 2b-ss, George Washington HS, Manhattan. 45. Jorge Mico, c, Hialeah (Fla.) HS. 46. Jeremy Paul, c, Trinity International (Ill.) U. 47. Tim Grogan, ss, Covington (Ky.) Catholic HS. 48. Anthony Manuel, 2b, Kishwaukee (Ill.) JC. 49. Fernando Hernandez, rhp, Miami Southwest HS. 50. Matt Payne, rhp, U. of California.

No problem hitless, here is the entire 2001 draft, I will post 2002 and 2003 in a few minutes: 1. Kris Honel, rhp, Providence Catholic HS, New Lenox, Ill. (Choice from Marlins‹16th‹as compensation for Type A free agent Charles Johnson). 1. (Choice to Indians as compensation for Type A free agent Sandy Alomar). 1. Wyatt Allen, rhp, U. of Tennessee (Supplemental pick‹39th‹for loss of Johnson). 2. Ryan Wing, lhp, Riverside (Calif.) CC 3. Jonathan Zeringue, c, White HS, Thibodeaux, La. 4. Jay Mattox, of, Conway (Ark.) HS 5. Andy Gonzalez, ss, Florida Air Academy, Melbourne, Fla. 6. Stevie Daniel, 2b/ss, U. of Tennessee 7. Brandon Camardese, lhp, Chaminade-Madonna HS, Cooper City, Fla. 8. Andrew Fryson, rhp, Wallace State (Ala.) JC 9. Jim Bullard, lhp, UC Santa Barbara 10. Tim Bittner, lhp, Marist U. 11. Tim Huson, 3b, Central Arizona JC 12. Chistopher Stewart, c, Riverside (Calif.) CC 13. Brian Sager, rhp, Georgia Tech 14. Matt Mitchell, rhp, JC of Lake County (Ill.) 15. Anthony Webster, of, Riverside HS, Parsons, Tenn. 16. Chris Young, of, Bellaire (Texas) HS 17. Jason McCurdy, lhp, South Dade HS, Miami 18. Justin Dowdy, lhp, Rancho Bernardo HS, San Diego 19. Wes Swackhamer, of, Delbarton HS, Morristown, N.J. 20. Brian Miller, rhp, Charlotte (Mich.) HS 21. Louis Palmisano, c, St. Thomas Aquinas HS, Fort Lauderdale, Fla. 22. Andrew Salvo, 2b, U. of Delaware 23. Josh Fields, rhp, Mesa (Ariz.) CC 24. Charlie Lisk, c, Fort Mill (S.C.) HS 25. Charles Haeger, rhp, Catholic Central HS, Plymouth, Mich. 26. Dustin Roddy, c, Searcy (Ark.) HS 27. Tom Collaro, of, Piper HS, Sunrise, Fla. 28. Jonathan Forest, rhp, Edouard Montpetit HS, St. Hubert, Quebec 29. Matthew Sibigtroth, ss, Hampshire (Ill.) HS 30. Heath Dobyns, rhp, U. of Northern Colorado 31. Nikolas Lubisich, lhp, Willamette (Ore.) U 32. Heath Castle, lhp, St. Catharine (Ky.) JC 33. Sean Kramer, lhp, Cornwall HS, New Windsor, N.Y. 34. Tim Tisch, lhp, Mesa (Ariz.) JC 35. Mike Moljewski, lhp, De la Salle Collegiate HS, Shelby, Mich. 36. Brent Speck, lhp, Broward (Fla.) JC 37. Juan Razzo, rhp, San Diego CC 38. Kenyatta Davis, of, Harlem Community Academy, Chicago 39. J.D. Johnson, rhp, Del Norte HS, Moriarty, N.M. 40. Chris Roque, 3b, Monsignor Pace HS, Opa Locka, Fla. 41. Chris Martinez, of, Florida Christian HS, Miami 42. Nick McMillan, rhp, El Dorado HS, Placentia, Calif. 43. Freddie LeBron, 2b, New Mexico JC 44. Ken Pridgeon, rhp, Cypress Fair HS, Cypress, Texas 45. Gerron McGary, lhp/of, Texarkana (Texas) JC 46. Roy Irle, rhp, Anderson (Ind.) Madison Heights HS 47. Adrian Casanova, c, Coral Park HS, Miami 48. Josh Crede, 3b, Fatima HS, Westphalia, Mo. 49. Richard Morman, of, Fayetteville (Ark.) HS 50. Zach Jackson, lhp, Seneca Valley HS, Cranberry Township, Pa.

Here is a link to a Baseball America article about Laumann and Shaffer: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/news/264338.html Laumann wasn't fired back in 2003, he was reassigned. He butted heads with Shaffer. I was told Laumann felt Shaffer was micromanaging him and assigning him to work (scout) colleges more than high schools. If this is true, and I believe the guy who told me wasn't BS'ing, it tracks with KW's philosophy of wanting potentially higher impact players. While I don't wish to generalize, if you are looking to hit more home runs with draft picks, generally it's with players who haven't fully developed. Logic says that means more HS players than college guys. Note that Baseball American has termed Laumann's departure in Nov. 2003 from the scouting director role attributable to "political reasons". It is not necessarily true of course that college players can't have high ceilings but generally impact players that can be found later in the draft are guys who are still in HS. I will post further on this in a few minutes, but Laumann was responsible for the drafts in 2001, 2002, and 2003. I will note who they drafted. Open for debate is how much latitude Laumann had because I believe (but am not 100% certain) he reported to Shaffer and not Williams directly. They "promoted" Shaffer to a Sr. Scouting/Advisory role when Laumann took the scouting director job.

Duane Shaffer airing dirty laundry ... great ... here is a guy who has had mediocre results for a long time and yet had a well paying job for 35 years with one employer. Not to mention having his overmatched son playing pro ball in the White Sox organization for a few years as a favor. Maybe he can look up Jason Dellaero and Jason Stumm, find out where they're working these days and get a hook up. It will be interesting to see where he lands. I doubt it's as an amateur scouting director.

Interesting. I wonder if the discussions center around Matt Thornton or Boone Logan. Willy Mo is clearly not in the BoSox plans and one would have to believe they'd love to have a good lefty reliever.

These players will either net the White Sox equal or better to what the draft picks would be, if not, the Sox keep them and play out the string. Personally I believe there will be a couple of moves by the Sox and I believe they will get something of value for at least one of the players mentioned. It will be fun to revisit this thread on 8/1. Now, having stated the obvious it is my opinion Dye and Contreras do have value. Whether that value matches up with what the Sox need going forward is another story. Potential sellers can become buyers in a week's time, especially in the mediocre National League will all sorts of teams bunched together.

Absolutely correct. The additional item is, KW and staff put in the waiver claim, other teams didn't, then worked closely with him to get his weight down, get into better habits, grow up a bit, etc. The word opportunistic was used in this thread, it certainly applies, but to me credit is due to the baseball operations staff in terms of believing in this guy and helping him become a productive major leaguer.

Pretty much agree on Garcia. I struggle though with the apparant viewpoint of, it was all luck that certain things didn't happen (didn't get Kendall, Vizquel, got Jenks) ... and yet the bullpen situation is squarely pinned on him. We don't know how close any of those moves that didn't materialize were. We do know the White Sox wouldn't go an extra contract year for Vizquel which in retrospect wasn't a bad choice. The staff has to get credit for seeing something in Jenks, other teams avoided him like the plague. I do agree though, he gambled big time on the bullpen for this year and it's been mostly snake eyes. Bad, bad, bad. Now he has to clean this mess up. The only good thing I can see is they've gotten a look at some of these minor league arms and know what they can / can not do. Mostly "can not" as I view it.

Yes and that is why they picked him up, however at this point he is still frustrating the staff with the same old problems as mentioned above. It is my sense they are more interested in seeing what Owens can do with a legit shot the remainder of this disaster of a year vs. Terrero. However the picture may well change by next Tuesday. One thing to remember is these speedy guys are in demand all across MLB. If the Sox don't feel Owens is in their long term plans it's very possible he gets traded if the Sox have targeted something from another org. and can get it done. I have nothing against Owens, just pointing out a possibility.

54 pitches for Masset, 29 strikes and 25 balls. This is a guy you just let pitch and see if he can get into a groove. I would imagine his confidence is shot as well. As for Podsednik fathom, what's the difference. 1 for 3 with a walk is hardly embarassing himself, despite the pickoff. He won't be back next year so it really doesn't matter. Actually it would not surprise me one bit if he is traded by next Tuesday. The player I am watching at Bristol is Kent Gerst. He is the speedy CF the Sox took about the 8th round last year out of a Missouri HS. I believe they had him in instructional play last year and this is his first year in pro. They targeted this guy, they watched him closely in high school ball and he is a real speedster. Just 19 I think. Bristol is so low on the food chain though, it's hard to really tell how he's doing other than statistics. The Sox seem to believe he has some leadoff abilities and as everyone on this board knows, that is something the White Sox always seem to need.

Owens shows ability in some areas but there's a problem, can anyone envision Jerry Owens being a starter on a contending team. Just my opinion but I don't see it. Ok, how about a 4th OF, well, he is decent defensively but not great from what I've seen and his arm is a problem. He cannot play RF so it's an awkward fit if in fact they will try to win in 2008. Then again it all depends how the roster is constructed. As stated he does show some real ability in certain areas of the game. He can definitely swipe a bag and he is starting to show he can work the count, which I like. However a good moving fastball on the inner half still seems to overmatch him. At this point you let him play every day and see what you've got. You know what you have in Terrero, here is a guy who had a great chance to show all of baseball he can be a solid major leaguer and now he's glued to the bench because of the same old problems (poor at bats, little plate discipline). Even Andy Gonzalez shows better plate discipline than Terrero, which is a shame because Terrero can go get 'em on defense.

In hindsight he took too many gambles with this roster and has lost on almost every one. To me there is nothing wrong with picking up young pitchers with good arms, hoping to unlock their potential. Lots of teams do this but Williams and staff stacked the deck with these guys, banking on all or most to perform. Obviously that didn't happen. If there is good news, most of the guys he traded for these underachievers aren't worldbeaters either - Gload is useful but has his own injury issues, Cotts is in AAA, etc. In a season filled with disappintment, in my eyes Massett is one of the biggest. I respect Steve Stone's opinion and he identified Masset as having tons of talent. So did White Sox pro scouting but somewhere along the way he has been handled wrong. Of course the player should also take his fair share of blame for underperforming. One thing they need to do is to start better. Guillen has already admitted he needs to change his approach in spring training and play the regulars more. They need speed and energy and enthusiasm, in my opinion all three are lacking. A final note on this topic, look at what Boston hitters did in the 1st inning to Garland. Long grueling at bats, working a walk on 8 pitch at bats. Guillen wants that but the Sox do not have the personnel. I did notice in this years draft they took several guys who are noted for being pesky at the plate, and to me that is one important part of winning baseball. Not so much Punch and Judy hitters but smarter hitters with a gameplan.

Totally agree, the more speedy CF prospects in the system, the better. Three guys the Sox scouts were high on are now in the organization ... Estill and Gilbert at GF and Kent Gerst from last year's draft in Bristol. The Sox hopefully can get the SS prospect Brian Guinn signed. Not sure if they'll be able to but there was a note in the Tribune about 10 days ago indicating they were working hard to get it done. It is somewhat complicated. These kids and their agents feel they should be drafted in the first 5 rounds and want that type of money to sign. The Commissioner's office is asking to review any signing bonuses over slot and most teams are adhering to slot guidelines, if they go over it's only by a couple thousand $. There are certain ways around it, usually involving paying for school and other guarantees.