29andPoplar

OK. I disagree it's a figure of speech, maybe for some it is and that's fine. Baseball types will disagree though. If anyone can string a championship together then a lot more would've done it. The GM has only so much input on building a championship. Many times a GM is only as good as their franchise structure. Most if not all GM's will prove ineffective in fan's eyes if there isn't lock step cooperation between ownership, front office, management, and field personnel. Any weak link in that chain, the ship sinks. To me a broader perspective is necessary. Focusing on the effectiveness of a GM in and of himself doesn't account for the myriad of variables controlling a team's destiny. In today's "I want it now" world, people tend to forget that baseball teams will have their cycles. Up trends, down trends, it happens. I certainly would never minimize Schuerholz's impact on the Atlanta franchise, and the game itself. He plays a huge role down there and is extremely good at his job. By the same token, I tend to look at 5 year trends, even 10 year trends. How competitive is the franchise? Do they have to consistently remake the team with wholesale personnel changes? How much money and effort and emphasis is put into scouting/player development? Is there a consistent organizational philosophy regarding what style of team to field? Or is there a philosophical shift every time there's an inevitable bad year? One thing to remember, this franchise shifted its paradigm going into '05. Guillen had a large part in that shift, Williams bought in, as did Reinsdorf and everyone else (except maybe Shaffer and a few others). Not so much all the "small ball" stuff, but an emphasis on smarter ballplayers, teamwork, all for one, and superior pitching. In '05 it worked out quickly. Wonderful! The next year they tried to fortify the pitching and relied on a farm system product as a key piece. Not a bad plan, and certainly the team was competitive (90 wins), but it fell short. It happens. Now in '07 they tried to fortify the pitching again (revamping the bullpen) and it was a disaster, one of several disasters. And now the weak link has identified itself and that is scouting and a productive farm system. The Sox overrated their prospects which has been an historical problem. They aren't that good. Bad drafting, questionable player development, and dubious player personnel moves. Therefore, what does a good organization do? They try to identify and fix the problem. They removed the scouting guy and are looking really hard at player development (which actually started in earnest last year, they had Roland Hemond sniffing all around the minor league teams). To me this says they are clear as to what their problems are and are trying to fix them. Maybe it is just me but I tend to look deeper than Williams. It isn't just one guy, it is the whole organization. However I will say it's Williams' job to find out where the weak links are and fix the structure. Personally I think he was a little late on the Shaffer thing, and time will tell if it was the proper fix. As for he and Hahn, well this is their first really bad year (under .500) so this offseason is a big hurdle for them, and everyone will be watching closely.

Anyone? No, not really. BTW I admire the Braves franchise tremendously, and always have. They know what they're doing, no doubt.

They are being really careful with Gonzalez in Birmingham, they want to make sure they don't over use him. He was pulled after 90 pitches a few nights ago and that seems to be about his limit. This is a young guy who still needs to fill out, get stronger, etc. I like how they're handling him up to now.

Sounds like a lot of this player movement was necessary due to injuries vs. strictly being a promotion. No matter. It will be good for these young players to get a taste at a higher level. Cole Armstrong got a bunch of playing time in spring, it seemed like they really wanted to see what he could do.

My understanding, for what its worth, is his hip is not arthritic. His hip joints are not aligned normally is what I've been told. Which basically requires certain strength and conditioning activity and what might be considered chiropractic type stuff.

The question is interesting, not sure what would've happened had Erstad not signed here. But you know this, when the White Sox mgmt. zeroes in on a player, they tend to get him. They were competing with the Marlins and the White Sox org. has had a good reputation so Erstad picking here was not surprising. As for Brian, it really is a shame. It's a bad fit for him here. Not due to personalities but him breaking in on a team that intended to compete was a bad fit. We can all play the blame game between Brian, Guillen, Williams, Erstad, etc. but it really doesn't matter, it didn't work out for him or the White Sox. The biggest losers in this lousy situation are the fans. The most frustrating thing for me personally is the White Sox still do not have a legit CF and by that I mean a legit 4 or dare I say 5 tool guy. I actually was lucky enough to spend a few minutes with Hahn and expressed my frustration about the White Sox not being able to develop (or draft) legit guys for SS, CF, and catcher. The key positions, especially for a Guillen-managed team. While I half expected a pat answer from Rick ("we draft so low, we can't draft the prime talent"), he was very forthright, saying he and Williams know this has been a huge shortcoming and the whole scouting and development situation was under scrutiny and evaluation (this was in late Feb.). Well we see what happened with that, Shaffer got launched. I expect to see more changes in player development this winter and I expect them to give Denny Gonzalez more help with the Dominican operation (DG runs the Sox academy there). They have brought a bunch of guys to the U.S. (see Bristol's roster for proof) and I also expect some outside scouting talent to be brought in. Both Williams and Hahn are frustrated as can be with the Twins and Indians in particular coming up with all this talent. Talent that comes up and contributes, not the Gustavo Molina's of the world. Not that I know anything but I did tell Hahn that I understand the love affair with drafting tons of pitching but I would like to see them go out of the box (philosophically) and get SS and CF in the pipeline and focus more on speed vs. power. These are smart guys (Williams and Hahn) and they know full well things have gone very badly and I expect them to be highly aggressive this winter on lots of things.

I would like to add my 2 cents to this as I believe I have something to contribute, having been down in Tucson for about 5 weeks this spring. I totally respect your opinion and viewpoint but may I say that some of it is skewed. It had a lot to do with Brian. A lot. Unfortunately he had a really bad year last year and compounded it with not fitting in with many in the clubhouse. Now I know some of you will say "so what" to that but whether we like it or not, that's baseball. The "chatter" down in Tucson was Brian didn't put in the extra effort required to be a productive big leaguer (at the plate). Referring to things as extra time in the cage, getting to the ballpark early and staying late. Brian didn't do that. There is a real debate on who had the better spring. As I recall Anderson had somewhat better numbers but unfortunately numbers do not tell the whole story in spring training. If people are basing Anderson's numbers in spring training vs. Erstad's and saying he clearly won the job, then I would say it's a case of people wanting Anderson to win the job and looking for reasons to say he did. While I am no great fan of Erstad (he is fragile and it has shown), he is highly respected, plays the game very hard, helps his teammates with little things like helping position the defense, knowing the opposition tendancies and many many other little things which are often dismissed on message boards as unimportant. You are correct when you say Erstad was signed to be a starter (in my opinion). Anderson needed to be lights out, especially with some of the work ethic stuff mentioned above. The Sox brass and coaches wouldn't have been so hard on him if he had heeded their advice in 2006 (be a pro, work harder, learn the game better, etc.). Bear in mind Erstad was a last option, basically. Williams and Guillen were adamant they were going to do one of two things after Anderson's 2006. One, bring somebody in to replace him and they were blown out of the water on Juan Pierre and Gary Matthews Jr. and even Dave Roberts. I do not blame Sox brass for not paying the huge dollars to any of those three, and I believe personally time will show those to be bad contracts. From what I heard they contacted Erstad early in the winter and said hey, we're interested if you can show you're healthy with that ankle, if you find a deal you like, no problem, but let's talk if it gets after the New Year and you're still out there. Erstad wanted to sign with a team where he could compete for playing time (at least) and he wanted a contract with a low base, performance incentives, and an option for '08. Florida offered that and so did the White Sox and Erstad felt it was a better situation in Chicago. He came into spring training, did all the right things on and off the field, worked on getting his timing back and such. The Sox brass and Guillen felt Erstad would be a better fit with a team full of veterans and since Anderson didn't totally respond to what the Sox brass wanted from him, the decision was made to go with Erstad. The scales were tipped against Anderson based on what I heard but it wasn't a cut-and-dried that he wouldn't be on the team. Anderson was unhappy about not being given the starters job again, it's a normal reaction but some around the team felt he was sulking and that didn't go over well. His performance back in Charlotte this year was underwhelming and then he unfortunately got hurt. My feeling is they will somehow try to get his value back up and trade him in spring training. As for Erstad, it's plain and simple. He was fragile, he is fragile, and I suspect he always will be. At best he is a backup 1B with limited time in the OF. The option, at $3M or whatever it is for 2008, is too much. They launched Mackowiak who would be paid right about that amount or slightly higher. And they have to get younger and more athletic. But for those who say well Brian Anderson is younger and more athletic, yes that is true on the surface but the big litmus test for him was going back to Charlotte and getting his game together. That did not happen to the degree it needed to. Further, Brian got hurt (shoulder) and now the wrist. Brian is no stranger to injuries either. It comes down to this, get better players. No Erstad's, no Podsednik's, no Anderson's. Get guys who are durable, can play at the big league level, and don't have baggage. It was a bad miscalculation on Williams' part on two levels. First, believing Erstad would hold up. Second, having so much faith and patience in Brian Anderson. Williams thinks they should have all kinds of patience with players they like but it doesn't always work out. Yes, it worked with Rowand and Crede. But if they clearly feel, as they do with Anderson, that there are performance issues both on and off the field, then do the organization and the player a favor. Give him a fresh start elsewhere and go out and get a better player. One last thing, and that is I believe they have finally learned about drafting CF guys. They need to draft at least two potential CF guys in every single draft. The Phillies do that and they've got some good ones coming. The Sox took two this year and at least one last year (if memory serves). This is the big leagues and this is Chicago. Screw this never ending patience, you have got to have serious competition and depth at the critical positions, so if a guy like Anderson falters, you have another guy right behind him. Easy for me to say it on a message board, harder to actually do it, but bottom line it needs to be done. Sorry for the lengthy post.

From what I'm seeing these two prospects the Twins got for Castillo are nothing special (of course nothing is guaranteed either way). If the Twins would've held onto Castillo, they would've been at least entitled to a supplemental pick. Taking this further, if Ryan is great at drafting and building a farm system, which I'm not arguing: - wouldn't the Twins fans be completely pissed they traded this guy for marginal prospects, thereby foregoing a decent draft choice, and - what kind of message does this send to the Twins fans and Twins players about this season, have they thrown in the towel? As for the first part of your post, please stop. A World Series win is a World Series win. It's in the record books, it counts, style points don't. I would guess Ryan is under a bit more heat than Williams at the moment.

It is, believe it or not, Northern Illinois University Night at Yankee Stadium tomorrow night. Although I'm sure it's a bunch of other "nights" tomorrow too, doubtful it's exclusive to NIU. Anyways $100 = 2 hr. pregame buffet and all-you-can-drink in the Great Moments Room plus a game ticket. It should be fun even though we can practically shake hands with God with the tix they gave us.

Clearing a spot on the 40 man, something is up.

Bristol is actually a lower level than Great Falls.

Kalapse I think people expected more than one Dubee for Tadahito Iguchi. At least two Dubees or possibly a nickel bag, heck maybe even a dime bag. Let's hope it's a big fat Dubee at least. I can just see the headline when a few home runs are hit off of Dubee, "Dubee gets smoked". Sorry, couldn't resist. Back to serious conversation.

Interesting and very plausible. KC prob. overpaid for Dotel but they were smart, it now looks as if they'll get something useful for him. KC has lots of OF. Now since the White Sox are trading with KC again, send them Tyler Lumsden II and get Joey Gathright. He is no worse a CF option than what we have now.

You said it better than I did and my sense is clearly this is exactly what they want to do. It would be naive on my part though to think these guys can be plucked off a tree somewhere. Every team wants these types. Interesting the Sox picked two in this most recent draft, they need to take shots on 2-3 guys like this in every draft. But this doesn't solve the issue for 2008. I should add Williams made an interesting comment in the paper today. He said he knows exactly where there are potential trade match ups with all 29 teams. This tells me he has identified how he wants to reconstruct the roster, and if Guillen is the mouthpiece, it is speed up the middle and higher on base guys and a way way way better bullpen.

Yes I tend to agree with you. But, I also believe most if not all this talk is very premature. My sense is the entire OF will be revamped and the entire bench too.

Ahhh ... you shouldn't. It's no way to go through life. They know they made mistakes. These are bright guys and rest assured they are already planning things out. They wanted to give one more run with the personnel that won the title, especially since the team won 90 games last year, i.e. last year wasn't a total debacle. It didn't work, in fact it failed miserably. Sometimes you get lucky with these guys who have had injuries, sometimes you don't. Arguably, they got lucky with Jermaine Dye, many people said he was injury prone. He contributed. It was a mistake to rely on Podsednik and it was a mistake to rely on Erstad for a starting CF role. They may bring Erstad back for a backup role but they are done with Podsednik. Guillen wants power and a better hitter in LF and wants his speed up the middle (2B SS CF). In fact I would not be surprised if Pods is gone by Tuesday afternoon.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. Not to mention it's not worth worrying about it at all right now. It seems like this is how it goes on this message board, a guy has a good series and people want to keep/build around him. There is the other extreme too, a guy has a bad stretch and people want him designated for assignment.

Well I certainly do not want to turn this into any sort of argument, I don't think anyone on this site is here for that purpose, but the main point I want to make is it really doesn't matter if White Sox internet posters want a total rebuild. It is not going to happen, at least for 2008. They (mgmt.) has said all along they will try to win every year, subject to their business plan (budget). They have also said if they plan to do a strip down rebuild, they will tell the fan base. Just a few days ago they reiterated they are not doing a total rebuild, they want to try and compete/win in 2008. So that appears to be reality and I hope those who want a total rebuild won't get annoyed or frustrated about it, it's not worth it. As for the farm system, totally agree it needs a big big boost. They need to look hard at player development too. If Wilder is any good you should start to see better results from the player development side. Two positives to point out, Class A Kannapolis is way better than last year, there is some talent there, and the influx of talent into Great Falls Advanced Rookie is leading them to a good season. They have also stepped some guys back who have gobs of raw talent but were overmatched or maybe not getting enough playing time. The OF Salvador Sanchez is a good example. But yes absolutely they need to look really hard at scouting, development, coaching. All of it. And yes I would like to see a couple of people brought in from other capable organizations.

I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, thanks. I never said that, I never said anything close to that. You said you doubted KW's ability to put a competitive team on the field, I pointed out his teams have not had one season under .500 and were 63 games over .500 in the six full seasons of his tenure. There is no set definition for competitive. I would guess though that a franchise that, in six previous years, averages 10+ games over .500 (6 years, 63 aggregate games over) would be judged by most baseball people as competitive. If you define it differently, that is fine.

Well SoxFan77 we all have our opinions and wishes but I wouldn't wager on this happening. Whether it's right or wrong they are saying they will try to put a team out there to compete for a pennant. They have said this all along and Williams has always said he will announce it if he plans on doing the total rebuild thing. It hasn't happened and it won't for 2008.

I can't completely agree with this. This is his 7th year on the job, the team has not had a losing season (finished once at 81-81). The team has been 63 games over .500 in the 6 full years Williams has been on the job. They finished 10+ games out of first place only one year. I don't know how the other teams in the division stack up during that same time period. But Williams and staff do have a track record of putting a competitive team on the field.

You could very well be correct. For me I have seen too many interesting things happen in baseball, on the field and from the player acquisition side. I have also seen too many players performances go up/down from one year to the next. That is why I tend to take a wait and see what happens approach, neither condemning too soon or praising too soon. One thing I am glad about is the front office saying they want to put a team on the field to compete for a championship. Whether that works out or not who knows. They have work to do, lots of it. But this org. is not afraid to make moves so I will wait and see what they do.

You just asked earlier in the thread why he had to keep him under contract with an extension, your thread title asks the same "why", that's why I answered as I did. Those were the reasons.

What is Contreras bounces back and pitches effectively for this or maybe another team. You have written his career off, you may be right but you may also be very wrong.

Totally disagree, they know they're gassed for this year. He has said any moves he makes will be for players who will help in the immediate future. They keep reiterating they want to field a team to compete and we have seen no moves that counter what they've said. Baseball teams fluctuate year to year, there is no reason to write off 2008 yet. Too many things can happen.