29andPoplar

And you'd be 100% right. If anyone doesn't believe it, have a casual chat with people who make their livelihood in the game. This site gives WAY too much credit and blame to GM's and managers and coaches, and not enough of both to the players. To sum it up, players make GM's really smart or really dumb, not all the time, but lots of times.

For comparison, how about Shapiro in Cleveland. Everyone raves about their talent, and I like their team. He's been there for 6 years as GM and in their organization since 1992. From 2001 to 2006 they won one division (2001) and were over .500 one other year (2005). They had a great 2005 as we all know and then completely tanked last year. They're a good team this year and lead the division but I wouldn't classify them as dominant by any means. Ownership stuck with both Shapiro and their manager after last year's debacle and now they lead the division.

By the way, I know this site appears to love these polls so everyone can jump in and bash, but to me the proper time to ask these questions is a year from now. Let's see if this staff can rebound from a horrible year.

Yes it sure does, ask Shapiro in Cleveland and ask their fans too.

"BOOR-jwaaah" Sort of like a right winger for the Montreal Canadiens.

Very fair point and it's something they have to at least consider. Judging by Guillen's comments it doesn't appear any coaching changes will occur. But that's not to say it won't happen, one of them may decide to step down or a better offer might arise from another organization. Although it's hard to see how White Sox coaches can be hot properties right now. Nonetheless both Cora and Shines are viewed around baseball as potential major league managers.

So far he's doing really well, as are a few others at Great Falls. Some of the bullpen guys are showing promise, in particular a kid named Henry Maybee, a big hard throwing Canadian born righthander picked up in this years draft. It also looks like they're handling Poreda the right way, building him up and giving him some confidence. After a winter off I think they will skip him up to Winston-Salem and see how he fares. The White Sox development and farm system people made Great Falls a priority this year. With all the investment the Sox do in young pitching, they made a point to bring in better fielders and more refined baseball players.

I'm not sure why people think there won't be, there will. These guys know it's been a disaster and they won't sit still. They tried to make some moves at the deadline and I'm not talking about Dye. Dye was a guy they were willing to move but only at a certain price, that's because they were pretty sure they could re-sign him, and they did. Not only will there be personnel moves but you will also see some player development shuffling and in my opinion a few people brought in from outside the organization.

You shouldn't be upset at all. That was a move thats been brewing for quite a while. Shaffer and Williams have never been totally on the same page. Williams wants prospects with potentially higher ceilings, Shaffer wanted safer picks, especially in part because he knew Williams had a propensity to trade them. Shaffer was not a scapegoat for this season. The results this season are not even a small part of why he got let go and there will be more changes behind the scenes. You and many others on this board should be glad they made that change. To quote the old Cream song "I'm So Glad".

Slightly off topic but somewhat related since we are talking about moving guys around - Saturday's Sun Times had a brief mention of Jason Bourgeois and how he is a player in the White Sox future plans. This probably means he gets his contract purchased shortly after 9/1 and added to the roster. He looks to be an Ozuna type to me. Speed, multiple positions. He doesn't K a lot either.

Saying "probably my fault" is likely about as close as you'd hear A.J. Pierzynski saying "I was wrong". My concern with Walker in this situation is he probably shouldn't have let it escalate into a dugout shouting match. Usually there are better ways to handle it, like in private. That said, maybe Walker felt the need to clear the air in front of the team, seeing as AJ raised the issue in the dugout initially. It should also be noted these types of things happen a lot all across baseball. It's worth talking about, but not worth an overreaction. Your next two sentences confuse me. You indicate it's not the first we heard of scouting issues not being accurate from some of the coaches. To me that says you believe AJ here. I don't know about that, AJ has a well known tendancy to exaggerate. But we will probably never know. The part about Walker ... you don't think it's his fault the offense is so bad yet you think it's insane he still has a job. So it's not his fault but he should be fired? I wouldn't be shocked if he falls on his own sword (resigns after the season). He doesn't need the job, he has money. If he thinks another voice (as hitting coach) will be more effective for the White Sox organization, he will step aside.

Yes I think Uribe will be gone and they'll trade for an established SS. Furcal, Tejada, Renteria, someone like that.

Actually it was a reasonably subdued HR call.

NorthSide, you've correctly identified one of the biggest problems. Not a bad guy by any means and can really pick it. But he's been told and helped and coached. And it's not happening for him.

Wow, they sure did today. Yikes.

Yes, and several players aren't bright enough to apply the direction they've been given. Or talented enough. But I do agree that making coaching changes solely for the reason of shaking things up should be a consideration. Sometimes it's a fresh voice.

Exactly, sheesh. I get a kick out of people on this site who neatly fit every comment, situation, or incident into their preconceived notion of things. Walker may not be a good hitting coach and quite possibly changes need to be made solely for the sake of change. However, a slacker he ain't. He puts in tons of hours and takes this years failures harder than anyone here by a longshot.

While I won't base an opinion off of one botched fly ball in LF, this move is really curious to me. First, the Crede situation. What are the odds he comes back in 2008 as the same defensive version of Joe Crede. No one here knows. I find it hard to come to grips with counting on Crede to be the same. Hopefully I'm wrong. Let's say Crede has problems in rehab. Then you either bounce Fields back to 3B or acquire another 3B. Seems to me the staff is expecting two iffy situations to work out well for the team. Another thing that is odd to me. They drafted Fields as a 3B and have said all along he is insurance in case something happens to Crede, physical or contract reasons. Crede goes down with a physical problem and they plug Fields in for 3 months. Poof, now he is in LF. Further let's suppose Crede comes back and plays well in 2008. Then you have the contract/Boras thing to deal with. What are the odds Crede would stay here. 50/50? I don't know about this whole thing. From where I sit it seems easier to get a good LF than a good 3B, even with Fields growing pains.

Yes, thank you. But let's not let reality get in the way of knee jerk reaction rants about the White Sox screwing their fans.

I have mentioned this a couple of times, hopefully it will click, the Great Falls guys are still in Great Falls for two reasons. One, they are playing very well together, are gaining confidence, and learning the nuances of pro baseball. Two, the team is in a pennant race for the first time in quite a while. The ownership (which is basically the Great Falls community) is excited, it's very good for the franchise and it's very good for the White Sox' relationship with the franchise. A key factor for some of these young players is learning how to win as a group. Great Falls team is winning as a group, there are about two weeks left and this is the absolute worst time to start moving guys around to the other farm teams. It is not as simple as player does well for 2 months = player gets promoted. There are other very important factors. Leaving players in winning situations and letting them go into the offseason very confident in their skills is important.

There's an Australian Baseball Academy which is the primary place any Aussie talent goes through. In fact, several teams that sign players internationally and can't get them a visa in time will stash guys at the Australian Academy and pay them a rookie league salary. Right now there are players from several countries there, including one from the Czech Republic (I think).

Article about the Phillies operation down there, from a couple years ago I believe. Ruben Amaro Sr. is mentioned and interviewed, he is a baseball lifer who is very well known in the Dominican. There is a Ruben Amaro who is the guy in charge of the White Sox Latin operation, not sure if it's the same guy. There is a Ruben Amaro Jr. who is with the Phillies, he is Asst. GM. http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/print_fr...ly.php?id=15234

To give people an idea of how many scouts the White Sox have and where they're based, here is a PDF copy of page 353 of the 2007 Media Guide, which also gives some information about the White Sox Dominican Academy. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/pressbox/d.../ml_coaches.pdf

I watched this entire game on TV today and here are some impressions for what it's worth. When Guillen came out to chat with Contreras in the 2nd, all of a sudden Contreras pitched better. I see the postgame coverage indicated Contreras decided to pitch to location after the visit. I'm not sure why it takes the manager coming out to the mound for the pitcher to figure that out. Contreras looked much better the last four innings he pitched but that isn't good enough. Gavin Floyd looks better in relief and I would like to see what he does against Boston. The Sox handling of him has been as confusing as Floyd himself on the mound. Apparantly he is a bullpen guy now and I wonder what that means for next year, if anything. Joey Gathright has become a much better hitter and he's a player I wished they'd have picked up from TB. Jerry Owens had a chance to throw out the catcher running to 3rd with the play right in front of him yet he chose to lob it into 2nd base. Not a good play and also I think he turned in another 0-4. The pitch from Myers to Butler for the HR wasn't terrible. Not making excuses for Myers but again I question the pitch call there as in my opinion you need to go in on the fists of a young hitter. It appears Butler was looking out over the plate, the pitch was a strike, low and on the outer half and Butler lofted it. He hit it fairly well and got it up in the wind which appeared to carry it somewhat. Again not making excuses for Myers but it wasn't a "hit me" pitch belt high out over the plate. The other hit he gave up was a perfect drop bunt single. Toby Hall had a horrific throw to try and nail a runner and sailed it into CF which allowed the 7th KC run. Absolutely bad and if I were the Sox I DL him now and get the surgery or whatever needs to be done so this guy can throw. It has been a wasted year for him.

Agreed, he could be a fit for the bench or maybe a slightly bigger role. He may be duplicative with Ozuna but I like that Bourgeois can play CF, that's a plus. And he can run. We'll just have to see if he's in the plans.