29andPoplar

Southsider2k5, they definitely want Sisco to start and he does have an option left so they are going to devote their resources into helping him become the best starter he can. What I heard, which should not be a surprise to anyone on this site who has followed Sisco, is they feel his mechanics can be better handled as a starter. It is probably what they should have done this year, have him start in Charlotte, but hindsight is 20/20. These winter ball assignments were in the Tribune today, and also they are sending Andy Gonzalez somewhere this winter but that is old news. Their immediate concern is Masset. Here is a guy they scouted a great deal and definitely has a good arm but he fell far short of expectations. It happens, but Masset is out of options so time is of the essence. As for Aardsma, plenty of teams will take a chance on him and I believe he will be traded. He is more "fragile" than they'd like.

It is real easy to pick out situations where things didn't work out. Where were you yesterday when Wasserman was in there to face Sheffield and Ordonez. It works both ways and has for every manager in the history of the game.

I have come to the conclusion that you can't tell the difference between opinion and fact. You may want to look it up. Saying "ozzie is an atrocious manager who makes a LOT of mistakes" would be an opinion, not a fact. Until you learn the difference, there is not much reason to point things out to you because you can't understand the basics. And that is not a low blow, it's simply pointing out you don't know the difference. Start with learning that, and then maybe you can rant about how you know damn well what you're talking about. Actually, someone like you suggesting I may know nothing about baseball is something I'll take as a compliment, but that's another discussion for another day. But being the casual fan you are, maybe keep reading other people's rants to form your opinions and get your examples so you can "damn well know what you're talking about".

Just to follow up on this situation. Sweeney will play in the Arizona Fall League, which is no surprise. People who were clamoring for him to be recalled, again, there was a reason. He is being given some time off to get healthy and going to the Arizona Fall League will be good for him. Also, Sisco is being given some time off and will play winter ball in Mexico as will Brian Anderson.

You appear to be fond of generalizations. "Anyone actually watching them can see he's atrocious." Well, I have been watching just about every game, just as I have for about 25 years and I don't see a guy who is atrocious, I see a guy who doesn't have much productive talent to work with. Here is what you said: "LOL. If you don't think Ozzie is an atrocious manager, then you are a pot calling the kettle black and it's YOU who need to watch games. I have watched nearly every game this season, and the last 2 seasons. I don't recall every detail of every one, but you don't need to remember every little detail to know that Ozzie is a brutal in-game manager, and the less magically the team works together and gets wins, it becomes more and more obvious. I can think of a few very poorly managed games in the last couple weeks alone. I don't hate him or anything, but Ozzie supporters have a tendency of being really delusional, and this coming from a more casual fan that doesn't obsess over statistics and constant analysis. Anyone with a brain can see that Ozzie can't manage his way out of a bag." ----------------------- You admit you're just a casual fan. Yet you pronouce Guillen as an "atrocious" manager. Further you claim to recall a few very poorly managed games in the last couple weeks alone. Please share with us when those games were, and what he could have done different, and your personal insight into knowing specifically WHY he could have done things differently. After all, reading your posts it is clear to me you have access to clubhouse information and you know who is ready to go, who is healthy, and why certain moves should have been made at specific times. Quite impressive for a self professed casual fan. Please tell the rest of us why we are delusional, citing specific examples. Please tell us why Guillen can't manage his way out of a paper bag, citing specific examples. Also please spare us the line of "ask fathom if you want examples". You are making the statements, please be so kind as to back them up. After all, anyone with a brain can back up what they say. Oh, also tell us ... specifically ... why he is a brutal in game manager, and please come up with something a little more in depth than "he is too appendage aware" or "BA didn't get a fair shake" as has been stated on this site before, which I'm guessing you've read and embraced. Here is my take. You don't know a whole lot of what you're talking about. You read message boards and get caught up in what other people say. Then you get frustrated with a losing team in 2007 and decide to spout a bunch of absolutes, generalizations, and blanket statements on a message board. Further, you try to demean people by saying if they don't agree with your opinion, they are "delusional" and "lacking a brain". Please note, I am not saying Guillen doesn't make mistakes, he does. However, I would like your take, seeing you have made numerous generalizations and absolute statments, indicating which specific games and which specific situations and how you would have done it differently and how you have the knowledge to know it definitively could have been done differently.

It is obviously too soon to have a definitive take on Richar as I believe you're implying. One thing is this, he now has over 100 at bats with regular playing time and for me, that is when I truly start noticing trends of performance and begin to form a realistic opinion. Thus far I like his range, I love how he turns the DP, and his hands look above average to me. He goes to get pop flys well and he appears to have good baseball instincts. At the plate I am less impressed but realize he is going through a huge learning curve. He takes pitches well but on the other hand he doesn't walk much, 12 times in 106 AB's. Not a red flag but worth watching. The flip side is he doesn't K much and has an idea how to work at bats. I believe more walks will come if it is emphasized to him that's what they want. He has a little pop and can turn on pitches but he is overmatched a lot. Not surprising but I would like to see much more progress the rest of this month. I like how they are giving him an opportunity. As of now he looks like a #9 hitter in 2008, sharing playing time with a veteran guy who can also play other positions, quite possibly Ozuna. What they really want at #9 and #1 is on base percentage. So far he is showing intangibles like being able to work an at bat and not striking out much. He has only been on base at less than a .300 clip so far but again it's too soon to really tell. Only one stolen base is another thing to watch, but maybe he doesn't have the green light. He has a ways to go which is not unusual for someone in his situation.

Very good way to put it. Now Buehrle, as I understand it, will get a break before his next start.

Two unearned runs and the White Sox lose. Can we please get some hitters like Polanco.

The error on the throw with Richar will happen as he had to go far to his right, Cintron not stopping that ball was worse. But the bottom line is they did not make the plays.

Now a base hit can win it with Granderson at the plate.

It is Rock I am watching it.

Ball goes into the dugout on the throw, Timo Perez at 2nd to leadoff the 9th. Robello is bunting.

fathom, I agree on your analysis of MacDougal. I have a hunch he will be moved though and that they have lost their patience with him for several reasons. He is an intriguing guy that other teams seem to like and I think that angle will win out.

Well I will add another spin to this, he is a guy who has made the most of his opportunity and they are showing more faith in him and giving him tougher tests to see how he does. Basically, developing a young player.

Look at that, Ehren Wasserman. A young player they just gave an opportunity to, seeing what he could do vs. Sheffield and Ordonez. K's them both, I like it. DJ just said "Ehren Wasserman showing why he deserves to be a big leaguer and it shows how the Sox feel about him".

You can bet your bottom dollar it is an award/reward. There is a huge difference in what they're paid for one. What do you think happens to your clubhouse when you shut down pitchers like Buehrle, Vazquez, etc. for September and move them out of the way for Nick Masset and Andy Sisco? Again, there are big time residual implications and affects that we as casual observers don't even think of. I bring up these points because I used to ask these same questions 15-20 years ago and found out the answers or should I say the rationale.

This so-called arrogant attitude is a perception that's been perpetuated by message boards. You can go ahead and think he has an arrogant attitude, it's your right. However I have met him and interacted with him about a dozen times as I have posted on this board. It is my belief, which I have explained in detail but it had no impact on you (again, which is fine) that he seeks tons of input from others, he is quick to credit others, he is highly competitive, he is passionate, he admits mistakes and works his ass off to try and fix them, and lastly he is aggressive. So if all that adds up to arrogant in your book, and it appears it does, well that's fine. I still fail to see where the immature part comes in but whatever. Aardsma is not being punished, a decision was made based on his body of work. You disagree with it, that's fine. He was given a huge opportunity in an important role and he did not do well. They finally had to send him down to AAA and he has been uneven there too, which was his problem here. They said they knew what he could do and they want to see other people, I see nothing wrong with that. They ARE backing off workloads of Buehrle, Danks. It has been all over the papers. Contreras already got a break and they need him back on track. Garland who knows what their plan for him is. Possibly they are letting him hopefully finish strong so they can trade him. No one knows. If they shelve him for September what does that do to his trade value. I have not seen one thing about the Sox planning to trade Sisco and I follow the media closely. Maybe some sportswriters speculation (opinion?) ? That does not equate to they are likely to trade him. I guess we will have to see if they do or don't. Cintron I believe is arb. eligible or signed for 2008. Terrero is what he is, they gave him a golden opportunity too and he didn't do well, he has exhibited the same old problems. Bourgeois had a great year and would have been nice to see but there are roster moves at play and they will possibly add him after the year when they shuffle the 40 man as they do every year. On the coaching thing. Williams gave Guillen that authority, he said today if he knew someone wasn't doing his job or putting in the hours he would tell Guillen. The results have been bad all across the board but I do not think changing a coach or two will make the difference between this mess and winning a division or more. I suspect there will be some change but that is the least of their problems.

Yeah well great, call Williams foolish. Now what about the "immature" label. Sometimes you have your hate Guillen hate Williams blinders on so tight it is amazing. Do you know what plans they have for Sisco and Masset and Aardsma this offseason? No, you don't. You don't know if they're going to have them work with instructors, go to winter ball, rest up because of nagging injuries, and so on. Further, what about the flip side? What if they come up here in their new roles (starting for Sisco and Masset) and do poorly? What happens to their trade value then? Who is to say those three players don't need a physical break? You see, there are a lot of potential variables at play you're not aware of ... yet you deem a person "foolish and immature" when you don't know the whole story. That speaks volumes. Further, they are having hard enough time to find starts for Floyd apparantly. Now you want to add Sisco and Masset to the mix? The only thing we do know is all three of Masset, Sisco, and Aardsma were far from dominating in Charlotte. One could go so far as to say they were mediocre. I like it when the brass says "you don't deserve a promotion, you have been mediocre". What about Cintron, he is a major leaguer, shouldn't he get at bats to hike his trade value? Or is it you like certain players but not others and the ones you like deserve chances but not others. Or is it whatever Williams and Guillen do, you will say they should have done something else and then label Williams foolish and immature? Please, stop. I am also trying to figure out what other OF's should be playing. I realize there is a hate Podsednik thing going on here and believe me I want him gone too and he will not be back, that ship has sailed. Who? Anderson is hurt, Sweeney is nursing injuries, Fields has been grinding and probably needs a day off. Terrero? Who else? Bottom line, there are reasons why stuff is done and you might want to face up to it that you don't know the whole story behind some of these decisions, and I include myself in that too. But at least I will try to analyze why they have done something and consider all the possibilities vs. blurting out with regularity that Williams is "foolish" and "immature". Sorry I suppose for coming on strong like this but I have seen you do this countless times, and more often than not you're all wet. Nothing personal, just a huge disconnect with some of the over the top stuff you post.

Oh come on, that is ridiculous. Practically everyone in AAA was mediocre this year, up to and including the guys who were up here and got sent down, like Sisco, Masset, Aardsma. Injuries have a good chunk of the AAA team up here anyways. Those guys didn't perform, you expect them to be rewarded with a promotion? In my book you have to do good in the minors before you're promoted. They didn't do well, they weren't promoted. The only reason Phillips and Broadway are here is because Guillen has not seen them in big league games and wants to look at them. They both had mediocre years too. Please stop with the "immature and foolish" labeling. What they did regarding promotions was done for a good reason.

Yes completely agree with you and actually that was my point. Teams hate to make decisions on guys based on what they do in September if your team is playing in meaningless games. What helps them make a good decision is whether the team you're playing is really hungry and this effort will help them make a decision. Now they need to get him back in there vs. a team going to the playoffs, like Cleveland or LAA. Even still it is not a clear cut decision, either way. At this point no one ... not even other teams ... much cares about his AAA record. What can he do in the majors is the issue. The other problem is it's awful evaluating pitchers in Tucson. Therefore they will have to make a judgement call and open themselves up for criticism no matter what they decide. I do know they have been working with him big time in side sessions and putting all their resources and efforts into making Floyd better. It is a shame he has not blossomed to this point but baseball is a strange game. The question to be asked is, Floyd is a healthy young arm and do you gamble with him as let's say a 5th starter in a season where he is out of options and where you have stated you want to contend? Not an easy call. All I can say is he took a step forward tonight. There is no clear cut answer.

Frankly it doesn't matter if they've been playing bad, it is a full house with a good offensive team in a fight for its life. Again I would never take two games and say hey, this guy is great, let's pencil him in for 2008. The one thing I will do though is see if he battles and attacks the strike zone and shows he is not afraid and bounces back from adversity. Those are the things that are important in a situation like this. Let's face it, he pitched well tonight, he worked out of a few jams, etc. As for pointing to these two games, if a guy pitches well on the road, I will take it. He manned up tonight and battled, I like it.

The biggest similarity between Floyd and Grilli is this, they both have a problem with their release point. It is basically as you said, a mechanical issue. The thing that makes both of them potentially of value is they both have movement on their pitches. I was a big fan of Grilli when he was here, he was and is a little older to finally be reaching his potential but the raw ability was there. Grilli got hurt and was derailed and took an awful long time to come back. Floyd's problem is between his ears, he needs some success to get over that problem, tonight he experienced some success and I want to see him pitch again, preferably against another team fighting for its life.

Will do, I'll resend tomorrow.

This outing has to be considered a major success for Floyd. By no means am I annointing him a part of the future or anything, but he battled and showed confidence in the curveball. This against a team who'd seen him before, is a good offensive team, and is in a fight for its life. He is deserving of another start, at a minimum. Also I was impressed with how Lucy received. Loved how Rogers threw the ball to Guillen on Lucy's first MLB hit, very classy, and also loved how Rogers gave Lucy his best pickoff move on the very next pitch. That stuff is part of what makes baseball great. Lucy will remember that the rest of his life.

Just wanted to check Greg, you'd sent me a PM last night and I responded this morning but I'm not sure it got through as my internet connection seemed to time out. Did you get my response?