29andPoplar

No the Arizona League To 20 article that Gene Honda Civic was referring to came out today or yesterday adn that was about the rookie league out there. It is a league the White Sox used to be in but they basically moved that team to the Pioneer League which they felt had better competition. I thought you were referring to a recent article about the Arizona Fall League (which starts later in the fall), where they talked about players who were going there, players to watch, etc. and in that article no White Sox players were mentioned specifically. Sorry about the confusion and yes I am optimistic about young Mr. Kane.

See my post above. The list that came out today or yesterday was about the Gulf Coast League. As I stated there was a previous article about the Arizona Fall league, which is what he mentioned in his post, he specifically mentioned the Arizona Fall League and that is what I responded to. Did I say that Phil Rogers comprises the Top 20 lists, or even contributes? No I did not. Phil writes up the organization updates, which come out every two weeks. I commented about Phil in general, not with anything to do with the top 20 lists. Yes, I know quite well the Sox rookie league teams are in the Appalachian League and the Pioneer League. I believe you and other posters see me commenting in the Future section of this board quite frequently.

There was an article specifically about the Arizona Fall League and they (BA) talked about the top players to watch. In that article I don't recall any of the 6 guys the White Sox are sending were mentioned. Maybe he was referring to a different article? The article I saw came out at least a week ago if I recall.

What it comes down to is this. The scouts will be trusted, they will see guys they like, follow them, and get to know as much as they can about guys they believe will be major leaguers. This applies to the early round picks and then afterwards you take guys who maybe have a couple good tools and try to develop the strengths and beef up the weaknesses. It all comes down to having a lot of scouts, which the White Sox do, and then hoping the guys you really like are there. Hopefully this new mandate of trying to get higher ceiling players will help.

Yes I did see that article and I agree with you they absolutely need to do better in terms of bringing young talent into the organization. That also holds true for most other teams but that is besides the point. However I think it's fair to say this, personally I take much of what Baseball America says with a huge grain of salt. Yes they have a certain amount of insight but they are getting most of their opinions (rankings) from area scouts and scouting directors, many of whom have their own sets of biases. The Arizona Fall League is a showcase, it's for lots of teams to put players out there to see if they deserve a 40 man spot. It can be a good measuring stick but it's certainly not a be all end all, for me anyways. To summarize, I treat a lot of their Top 20 lists with a shrug of the shoulders and many baseball people do too. As an example if you ever meet and talk at length with Phil Rogers who is the White Sox contributor, as I have, when you start talking about players deep in the White Sox system he gets a glazed look in his eyes because he doesn't know who you're talking about or anything about the players. He is a super nice guy but there are people here who know more about the young players than Phil.

There is a new article up on Baseball America, which included this excerpt from an American League scouting director, talking about the 2008 draft class: "It definitely looks like it's light on players, period, at least in the upper echelon—the highest profile, top-of-the-board type of players," an AL scouting director said. "There's not very good college talent in that first, second, third pick range. If you're picking 25th, you might have a better chance at a decent college guy (whose value matches the pick), but the upper echelon of this class is not that good. "The same in the high school ranks. Once you start getting into that 20 to 40 range, there are some that are real good, but I don't think it's a good year to be picking in the top 10 for value, when you consider what you pay for those players. If you have to pay $1 million-plus, I don't see that many guys that you would want to give that money to."

It is a shame because clearly he is overmatched. They have no one else at the moment though, and decided not to pursue anyone else since they were so far back. Might as well see if Gonzalez had anything, now they know the answer for sure, he doesn't.

Chisoxfn, as owner of this site, who do you prefer I go after? I have something out to Alan Regier who can answer stuff about minor league development and possibly the Dominican operation (in my letter I ask him if he can cover that area or do I need to ask someone else). Also I have something out to Laumann in regards to scouting. Who else would you suggest, is there a particular area you would like to know more about? As you can imagine these guys are busy so there are no guarantees of getting an interview, or the length of an interview if I can land one. After reading this board for a few months I have a good idea of the areas (questions) that need to be covered so I will compose the questions myself. But again, this is cart before the horse. First thing is to get the interviews. By the way the requests just went out yesterday, sorry for the delay but things got hectic.

kwolf68, that was a great post and I agree with you, right now as constituted this team can't compete. I believe we will see some bounceback from the core players. Thome will be Thome, dinged up for 40 games or so and healthy for 120. Dye and Konerko should bounce back average wise. But there are no guarantees. I liked how you phrased it, one of the keys is getting that really good 10th, 15th, 25th guy. Those guys are the difference in winning 8-10 games a year. Pitching wins, and they will continue to focus on pitching. As I posted a few days ago I believe there will be a couple of trades that people don't expect and I believe you will see new players brought in who are more aggressive, both on the field and in the clubhouse. As for big free agent signings, my guess is no, but I do see them picking up the right 2nd tier free agents and maybe a non tender or two. As you correctly identify, a lot of this is about "fit" and how guys function as part of a team and their willingness and ability to get things accomplished as a team. The Sox would be smart to totally reconstruct the bench and I am betting they will.

Thanks for telling the board your position. Remember you have written off 2008, no turning back now. Maybe stop baiting greg775 too. Everyone's position on the "I want them to win" or "I want them to lose" is pretty well known at this point. By the way, I have the letters out to the powers that be in the White Sox org. If they answer and consent to an interview I'll let the board know. Better to reach out and try to get some answers, imo, than complain about the same thing on a message board every day.

Right, and the brass is looking at Floyd's entire body of work this season in making an evaluation. Namely, things like how has he progressed through the entire year, how well has he implemented their suggestions (actually mandates), how has he improved the mental aspect of the game, and what are his results in the big leagues this year. While he is not guaranteed a spot in 2008, basing it entirely on March '08 results is not something they will do. They have stated over and over and over how difficult it is to judge pitching results in Tucson. There are other things they can evaluate but results in Tucson are taken with a huge grain of salt.

The best market for Contreras is where he is right now, and the White Sox turning him around and getting him productive again. The evidence is a break did him a world of good and the Sox brass is noticing. If other GM's notice and want to give the Sox something valuable, sure, that would be great. One thing I do know, the Sox will not give him away.

Tony, no. You do not want to sell that low. The payroll is not as critical in that respect. Yes they would trade him for the right player or players but they won't give him away so to speak, nor should they. They actually learned something with Contreras this year, he is a guy who will need a break or two during the year. They will need to skip a few of his starts next year. Actually if he's traded, any team will need to skip a few starts for him. He will be effective for about 25 starts. When he does poorly, it tends to snowball on him mentally and then it unravels. Used properly, he can be an integral piece. And remember, pitching wins, they have to stack the deck with pitching. They will give guys more breaks (skipping starts).

I'm not sure I'm following you from that first post to the second, but ... From what I have seen, the Pedro Alvarez kid is head and shoulders #1. For now anyways. So people here are rooting for the Sox to lose their games so they can draft a stud prospect. I understand that totally. But what is the difference about people complaining? My point is, those complaints should be dismissed outright. Those people don't know anywhere close to what scouts know about these prospects. What is read on Baseball America and scout.com and wherever else is probably 10% of the knowledge base. Heck even if I sat down and talked at length with Callis or somebody who worked at BA, I might know 15%. There is a reason why scouts have fairly small territories, it's because they can get to know coaches, players, and other important people in depth. As for the 2nd to 8th pick difference (in your example) yes there is obviously a difference, you get a bigger pool of players to pick from. I completely understand people not wanting their team to lose no matter what, and I also completely understand wanting the team to lose in order to get a higher draft pick. No one will change their position so what's the point. At this point, in terms of helping things for 2008, yes a high draft pick would be great but they won't help for 2008 nor will they help for 2009 more than likely. It might be better for the short term if guys like Contreras can continue to turn things around, if Richar has more showings like recently, if Fields finishes strong, and so on. And dare I say if Gavin Floyd does well. If those improvements result in winning some games and therefore picking at #6 or #7, that's the way it goes. Not to mention, things can change drastically with this whole draft scenario between now and June (players "ratings" going up/down).

The farm director who plotted the strategy for this Great Falls team is a guy who worked in both the Red Sox and Braves organization, so yes it is a good sign. I also was able to follow Great Falls and listened to many games on internet radio. A fun team, and you get to pick up lots of knowledge about these guys.

Just a question. Who would get upset? No one who posts here follows the potential draft picks close enough to know a fraction of what the scouts see and know. Anyone who gets upset should not be taken seriously because basically they'd just be blowing smoke to blow smoke. The only person I've read on this board who knows the prospects more than at arm's length is the young guy who goes to Vanderbilt and has regularly seen the Vandy guys play. He knows about the Vanderbilt guys. The rest of the people, like myself included, follow what's on the internet and on the media for the most part. Even if people see a game or two or three, it doesn't make them qualified to get upset. It's opinions, it's not based on credible knowledge. Heck I saw Wyatt Allen pitch in a college playoff game and got all excited about him. Oops.

7th inning White Sox offense, two hitters in Uribe and Cintron who like to swing at pitches in the dirt do so, and strike out. Sandwiched around Richar who swings at first pitch up by his head to fly out to left. Uribe at least had a good at bat, he saw about 10 pitches.

You are on the right track in my opinion and I am putting bits and pieces together from what little whispers I hear. Not necessarily on Colon but someone of that ilk. A rehabbing veteran on a make good contract with a low base and high incentives. Someone they can DL at the start of the year and work them in later. There are a number of guys out there that fit the profile, the obvious is Freddy Garcia but he may be out all of next year.

There is a whole other issue the Sox are looking at with Floyd. Yes, these results do matter in their evaluation process and frankly so will results in Tucson in March. But they are watching several other factors in making this evaluation. - is he working at the tempo they want him at. - how is he in sync with the catcher. - how does he react when he gives up a bomb. - what kind of composure does he show when he gets into a jam. - how are his side sessions, is he putting in the necessary work and listening to Cooper and Kusnyer. - how is he doing mechanically, is he implementing the changes the coaches insisted upon. - is he conducting himself as a pro in the clubhouse. Let's face it. Whether we like it or not the Sox have a significant investment in this guy, they love his arm but aren't completely sold on all the peripheral issues that are often the difference between success and failure in the big leagues. Right or wrong they have already decided this guy CAN be successful in the big leagues. Again, right or wrong and whether we as fans like it or not. They have told him in very specific terms what he needs to do to be successful. Every pitcher will get knocked around, it happens. Right now they are more tuned in to other evaluative factors. It is almost solely up to Gavin at this point, he has made strides in all these areas recently and they will watch this stuff closely tonight and for two more starts.

NorthSide, Yes I agree with your statements and I should have been clearer on my point. Southsider commented that the Sox will "have to" do this and that, and further we should get used to seeing league minimum players like Richar, Owens, etc. in the lineup, ostensibly due to payroll constraints. My point, and I should have made it directly, is no one knows what their budget will come in at, but I will address a few budget variables in a moment. I agree with Southsider that several players will be moved, but not necessarily for salary reasons. They have said and are saying now they plan to be competitive and Williams has also said that payroll will not be an issue. I interpret that to mean they won't "have to" dump players who are making money just for the sake of clearing payroll. They will move any player ... any player ... if it makes baseball sense to do so (unless there is a no trade barrier in the contract). Yes paid attendance will come in somewhat lower but we cannot forget other streams of revenue have opened up. What about those scout seats and what about the Jim Beam Club which used to be the pressbox? Those are substantial shots in the arm to revenue. That is just one example. As Southsider correctly states, none of us know what the payroll will be, or frankly what they may or may not be forced into doing personnel-wise. I do see them continuing to build around pitching and I expect a few unexpected trades to revamp the pitching. I also see them dipping into the Japanese market. Further, they are heavily evaluating their own young players and giving them a chance. Results have been mixed but none of us can say what the front office is thinking on these guys. Guillen tipped his hand by saying last week they cannot carry all these young guys or they will be in last place.

Interesting. What is their budget for 2008?

Interesting numbers, thank you for posting that. I think what it tells me and apparantly Guillen and hopefully Williams is, the White Sox strike out a lot and that's not good. Hopefully they can re-do the lineup so there are less strikeouts and more guys on base, and more guys who make opposing pitchers throw lots of pitches.

Well let's not lump him in the 100K category like I did, let's just say the 80k category. Let's also take a couple of the other guys and put them into the 120K per year category vs. the 100k per year level. Crede strikes out twice as much as he walks, his OBP is not great and who knows how he'll swing after basically a year off and rather serious back surgery. The point being, do they carry Fields with that large amount of K's when they have 5-6 other guys who also do their share of striking out. It is something they will talk about and analyze which is what I was trying to get across.

He strikes out twice as much as he walks. For a potential leadoff hitter that some are either annointing him, or wish him to be, not good. If he has good pitch selection and can work the count like Lofton can and he can hit for average like Lofton can, that's one thing. He hasn't thus far and he didn't in the minors. They should be shooting higher than Jerry Owens as a starting CF on a team they want to contend, and I believe they will.

Agree on this too. I am not seeing a consistent ability to draw walks and he never did it that well in the minor leagues either. Yes he is improving incrementally but is this the guy for CF on a contender. I am not so sure. By the same token I realize it's doubtful they will have all highly paid veterans in the '08 starting lineup. What I can see is trying some of these kids and getting the right type of veteran to either platoon or take over if necessary. Someone not named Erstad though.