29andPoplar

It took only a few minutes for someone to ask about Juan Moreno in the BA chat. "Where was Juan Moreno, he is still pretty young, won pitcher of the year in the Pioneer League and showed tremendous control while striking out a good number of batters?" A: Ben Badler: Josh, Moreno has an advanced feel for pitching, mixing his speeds and fooling opposing hitters. He's limited though because his fastball is 88-92 and his breaking ball is pretty slurvy. He'll spot his pitches, but more experienced hitters will probably give him trouble. He and Chacin both are advanced for their age, but the difference is that Chacin's secondary stuff is much better than Moreno's.

I agree that even the most optimistic of fans shouldn't overreact to having 6 guys on a list like this. Yes it's probably better than having no guys on the list but it's still a rookie ball level. That said, and this is just my opinion, some of those scouting reports were regurgitated from draft time and didn't take into account the growth of these guys this summer. Not that a whole bunch of progress is made in one summer but as an example, I listened to several of Ely's starts. Opposing announcers were raving about how he moved in and out and up and down. Oh well. And I will admit I'm probably biased because I enjoyed that team so much this summer and obviously I want the Sox prospects to do well. Regarding Moreno. Yes he is def. a guy to watch. 90 innings pitched in the Pioneer League, only 4 HR's given up and only 11 walks. That's quite good. His biggest attribute appears to be pounding the strike zone and knowing how to pitch.

Hah, each of the scouting reports on the 6 Great Falls guys had a negative vibe, which is fair enough I suppose. Poreda: lacks a secondary pitch that even grades out to average. Worked hard on improving the slider but they criticized his mechanics. Ely: very competitive but has a head jerk in his deceptive delivery and there's concern he can stay healthy. Hmmm, sounds like the BA writer read the draft scouting report. Estill: speed and power, can play CF but has huge holes in his swing. Gallagher: fringy average tools (again it looks like they regurgitated the draft scouting report), doesn't have the arm or range to play RF or CF. Controls the strike zone well. Interesting, Cron had Gallagher playing all three OF positions. Marrero: repeated the level, moved from OF to 1B where he looks comfortable. Hitting coach smoothed out his swing and he responded. Sanchez: repeated the level, needs better instincts on the bases, mentioned he got caught stealing 13 times, takes bad routes to the ball in RF. Poor plate discipline. Trying to translate his raw skills into baseball talent. Seemed the writer focused on the negative. Is that your brother fathom???

Looks like you are as good at predicting as I am. Surprising that Moreno didn't make the top 20 although I'm sure he'll be mentioned in the chat.

This is why I don't like to predict. There are 6 on the list, not three. Shows how much I know I guess. I did know there'd be more than Poreda though.

Poreda, Gallagher, Ely, Estill, Sanchez, Marrero.

It isn't just the swing that prevents him from hitting good pitching. But then again I suppose the mechanics of the swing does start between the ears. He has talent there's no doubt about that. Intangibles necessary to succeed? Questionable.

Maybe. They tend to focus on pitching above anything else and I believe you will see them move slightly off that philosophy. They have always said if you have pitching you can trade it for anything, but in todays game that isn't always easy to accomplish. They sign lots of Dominican/Latin American catchers but can't seem to develop them. Player development is under the microscope big time. Also they have been so honed in on pitching, both in the draft and internationally, they badly need an influx of impact or at a minimum smart bats as well as good defensive players. I am as interested as anyone on the new approach to the draft, if in fact it will be a new approach. Also I am very interested in what changes they make in player development, and what impact Amaro Sr. will have in the Dominican. There are no easy answers, it is not as simple as let's throw money at it. They have work to do and I have been following closely and asking lots of questions to people who might have insight. I see them making some positive changes and expect they will continue to make more positive changes.

To directly answer your question, which is an entirely different question/issue that I originally responded to ... my answer is this ... many many many of those kids at age 16 could turn out to be a star. Their philosophy is to sign lots of guys and develop them as best as possible. No they do not spend as much money as the Mets, the Yankees and a few other teams in paying out big bonus money but I would bet with their Dominican academy and scouting staff and two Dominican League teams their expenditures are on par with many of the aforementioned teams. No way to prove it though so it may be an offpoint statement. It requires a bigger picture view, which also seems to be a phrase I use a lot on this site. Would the Braves like to have Juan Moreno in their stable, yes they would. Would the White Sox want to have some of the Braves guys in the Appy League, of course they would. But again, the original point was they lack an international presence, and you have explained the deeper issue behind your statement to which I objected. The good news is, their international presence has increased, as had their financial commitment. It does seem they like bringing in proven players i.e. spending money that way, in the Far East.

But actually you mentioned lack of international presence, which is what I responded to. Not anything about how many productive major leaguers have happened. They generally keep their activities and signings fairly quiet, especially in the Dominican. There was no big press conference last winter when they signed Po Yu Lin, the pitcher. It was actually someone on one of the White Sox boards who dug up that info. Same is true for Anderson Gomes and Paulo Orlando out of Brazil, no press conferences for that either. They sign lots of Dominican guys. I have posted this before and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the Bristol roster shows it. The White Sox are in fact signing international free agents and I expect that to continue and/or increase as more emphasis has been placed on expanding the Dominican operation. Also as I mentioned before, Ruben Amaro Sr. is in charge now which is good. Iguchi, Shingo were two really good signings and watch for the Sox to be more active in the Pacific Rim this winter. I am not defending them believe me. But the statement of lack of international presence is not correct.

As for this Pioneer League list, I am not a predictor but I think you will see three Great Falls players on the top 20. Poreda, Morena, and one of either Retherford or Jim Gallagher. Gallagher impressed a lot of Pioneer League people, not only with the bat but his smart OF play. Yes the college/age factor is in play here but Gallagher in particular was a guy who played extremely well and was very consistent start to finish.

No doubt both Atlanta and Minnesota can identify talent but it's fair to note this question, and answer, from the Appalachian League chat from BA. John M from NYC asks: Was Danville and Elizabethton's dominantion of this year's list a product of two very strong teams or was it a result of the other teams in the league not offering much in terms of talent? A: Nathan Rode: Both. The Twins and Braves don't have a short-season team like many others. Basically, the Appy League is their advanced Rookie team where guys go if they're too good for GCL, but not quite Low A ready. The other teams have that advanced team to play with. That's why you see Elizabethton and Danville dominate so much. That doesn't take away from other prospects. It's just a matter of concentration of players in a league. Also, not sure what lack of international presence means regarding the White Sox. If you are talking about Australia and the Netherlands, it's true. However, few players thus far have come from those areas. White Sox have one of the most respected scouts in the game, Ray Poitevent, in the Pacific Rim and are well represented in the Dominican, Venezuela, Panama, Mexico, and Brazil. Two teams in the Dominican league as well, not many other teams do that. There is a frustration with the pipeline of players but they are well represented in the major talent producing countries.

Extremely deep to CF, 3/4 of the way up. If not 500 ft. awfully close. I was there with 3 other guys that game and we had a table on the top level of the Bullpen bar. We got there early for batting practice and one of the guys was yapping away with his back turned toward the field. Bonds was taking BP and I suggested this guy turn around to watch. He did for several pitches and then turned his back to the field to start talking with someone and just as he did Bonds whistled one out to RF. It whizzed a centimeter past the guys head and hit off the silver railing of the sports bar. The guy said he felt the breeze of the ball blowing by him.

Actually no you didn't, that's why I posted as I did. You said the Pioneer League was the 2nd stop for the Twins and the 1st for the White Sox. The Twins do not have a team in the Pioneer League so I assumed you simply mistyped and meant to say the Appalachian League is the 2nd stop for the Twins (the Twins have a rookie team in the Gulf Coast League). But since you said Pioneer League in your post, I wanted to clarify for the board that the Appalachian League is the lowest level of the White Sox chain, then Great Falls in the Pioneer League, then Kannapolis, and so on. I presume you just mistyped?

First of all Bristol is the lowest level in the White Sox chain. Most of the college guys go to Great Falls, most of the high school and recent Dominican signings are sent to Bristol. Bristol is the first stop. If the scouts and Regier feel the prospects are a bit more advanced they go to Great Falls. It is the main reason the White Sox got out of the Arizona Rookie League, they felt the competition there was too similar to the Appalachian League and they wanted a slightly higher level for their prospects, hence the move to the Pioneer League. As an example, Salvador Sanchez already played a season in Bristol. He then went to Kannapolis (going from memory) and did not do well. This year was basically a step back for him to the Pioneer League as they wanted him to get a ton of playing time and get some confidence. There were a couple of college guys from the Twins in that list, the 20 yr. old I mentioned was the SS who was signed in '05.

Yes. Looking at the Appalachian League Top 20 list, a few of the Twins guys were out of college and at least one more was signed two years ago and is in the Appy league at age 20. So it really depends on the writer and also the feedback they get. There are always grey areas with these lists but they're intersting to see. What is also interesting is to read the sidebar, they list the Top 10 from five years ago. Most do not make it, as one might expect.

"The White Sox system contains very few position players of promise, and Martinez has more upside than most of them. He has the room to add much more strength to his 6-foot-5, 170-pound frame, making it easy to project him attaining above-average power. He can put on a show in batting practice, though he tends to overswing in games. Martinez has athleticism as well. He has good speed and stole 12 bases in 14 attempts. He tracks the ball well and has a plus arm in right field, and he also saw some action in center." From Baseball America's Appy League Top 20 Prospects List

I would say yes. To me it looked like many of the Tiger players were out of gas. Certainly both the Yankees (wild card) and Cleveland (division) have played well but Detroit didn't look like a juggernaut team at all.

Focusing on one bad aspect of a bad season, it has been really frustrating watching the inconsistencies of White Sox lefthanded relievers. They have to be thinking, do we hope these guys bounce back in 2008 or do we go out and find other lefthanded relievers?

Agree and good point on the pitch count. He does look to me like he's attacking the strike zone more and that's good.

Right now you have to let him try and work out of jams and finish innings, he needs to learn how to do it consistently. He had the velocity but lost control of the curve. It was a good move for Cooper to come out and give him a breather but he got himself into a bind with the count. Not a horrible outing but he labored. The good news I guess was he only walked two guys.

Exactly. Punch Yost in the face? Wow.

Well he couldn't work out of it. 5 2/3 innings today, 4 ER, 100+ pitches. He lost his control in the 6th. I would categorize his outing today as so-so.

Now Floyd is in a jam. Bases loaded and one out.

Slowey looks really good. Unfortunately. Something appeared to be bothering him last inning, either shoulder or forearm, he was shaking it out. Might be nothing but he looked perturbed about something.