Buehrlesque

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) 2018 is crazy talk. QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:24 AM) We will be looking at a 70 to 75 win team in 2018. It does sound crazy now, but just wait. Crazier things have happened, and things change fast in the game today. If the Sox pull off one more "home run" style trade with Quintana and bring in MLB-ready prospects, I think you're underselling the 2018 team. I'm not predicting 90 wins or anything, but I think they could make a run at .500 pretty quick. In the modern playoff era, that is not far off from actually contending. The difference of course will be that it's a .500 team on the rise, not a .500 team of veterans maxing out and declining.

I think a lot of people are severely overestimating the amount of time this team will be bad, and how they will be losing intentionally. 2017 will be mostly garbage, no doubt. But really, that's about it. This isn't the kind of rebuild where a moribund, barren franchise begins from zero, accumulating teenagers through draft picks. Thanks to their roster of great players with great contracts (that paradoxically did not produce a great team), the Sox are acquiring close to major league ready, impact talent. Things will change much more quickly than some people seem to think. Especially in the two-Wildcard era, this team will be competing by 2019 for sure, possibly even 2018.

Question to fill the time: Who would you guys rather have, Blake Rutherford or Kyle Tucker?

It's only been a few hours, and this rumor already feels stale. Sox trade Q and don't get Meadows, Torres or Frazier back? I guess Glasnow + Rutherford would be nice, but it feels like settling. I'm still hoping someone really steps with with one of the so-called "untouchables." The value of Jose Quintana for four years plus his below-market contract should be worth it!

QUOTE (Sockin @ Dec 23, 2016 -> 01:02 PM) This is why I don't buy this deal at all. The Yankees don't have a need for McCutchen I agree. I still don't see how this makes sense for Yankees. Honestly, it doesn't even make that much sense for the Pirates either. I say the odds of this falling apart are pretty high, but maybe it'll tease out some bigger individual offers for Quintana.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 01:55 PM) This will be very interesting if its a 3 way trade but super complicated. I haven't seen one yet where I completely get motivation from all three sides. Other than the fun of idle speculation, I don't see why the complication of a three-way trade is really relevant here. The Pirates have three good to great starting major league OFs, one signed through 2018, one through 2021 and the third through 2023. They can absolutely afford to part with a prospect like Meadows to acquire a starting pitcher of the caliber of Quintana. The match up for a trade makes perfect sense.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) Am I wrong for strongly prefering the Pirates prospects? I feel the same way. I'd still rank them: 1. Pirates (Meadows/Glasnow) 2. Rockies (Dahl/Rodgers) 3. Yankees (Torres/Frazier) ... then the rest with a significant drop off. The Rockies' interest is purely theoretical, so unless the Dodgers get involved, I am hoping it's Meadows or Frazier patrolling the OF for the White Sox next year.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 22, 2016 -> 08:59 AM) Could Sox fans be happy with a package that doesnt include Meadows? Something along the lines of Glasnow, Bell, Newman for Q? I wouldn't be. Meadows has to be the headliner for me.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 04:02 PM) It will be interesting as a Sox fan to keep watch from a distance on all these players that we may or may not acquire. For instance, I already will be measuring Bientiendi (spelled wrong, don't care) versus Moncada for the next 5 years. Likewise we will do the same with Robles and Bregman and Tucker and Meadows, Torres, etc. Ha, I have been thinking the same thing, especially with Benintendi, Devers and Robles. The Sox have made the best decisions they can based on the information they have now, so you can't fault them if the "other guys" pan out and Moncada, et. al. bust. But it will be fascinating to follow!

Bregman, Meadows, Glasnow, Rodgers, Dahl, Torres, Frazier I have confidence that Hahn will negotiate his way to one of those headliners before this is over, or else we'll see Quintana on the hill for the Sox Opening Day 2017.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) I think a realistic package has to start around one of Meadows/Bell. Obviously, Medows is much more enticing but I also think he's much more unrealistic. Would everyone be happy with a package of Bell, Newman, Keller & lower level guy? That's 3 top 100 guys & a throw in like with Boston. The caliber of prospects isn't as high as the Sale deal but there's a bit more depth to this one. Why are some people saying Meadows is unrealistic? The Red Sox just traded the top prospect in the game. The A's traded a top 15 guy for a year and a half of Jeff Samardzija. The Royals traded a top 10 guy for James Shields! Need we mention the Shelby Miller deal? If you want a top arm like Quintana, Meadows is not unrealistic at all. It would be silly for him NOT to be part of the package. Q for Meadows, Bell plus lower-level guys is where the conversation starts for me.

If I were the Astros, I'd be worried right now. The Pirates, Yankees and Rockies all have better options for a Quintana trade. The Astros may seem like the most logical destination, but they have the least desirable potential package.

QUOTE (Username @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 02:17 PM) Such an absurd comparison hahaha. Guys is clearly a troll or completely misunderstands how baseball works. You could put Sale in the 5th slot and it wouldn't matter, he's playing the same hitters and pitchers over the course of a year. Don't feed the trolls!!! Seriously people. Guy is obviously a troll, or not an actual baseball/White Sox fan. Ignore, ignore, ignore. Anyway, on topic, I would say some form of Torres/Frazier/Rutherford is significantly better than any non-Bregman package the Astros could offer, and up there with a Rodgers/Dahl conversation.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 10:52 AM) Yankees might be the weirdest team in the AL. Them and the Orioles I guess. They say they're going to compete but their rotation isn't going to cut it against the class of the AL. Tanaka, Sabathia, Pineda, Severino and what exactly? That's not getting you anywhere. I'd do Quintana for something based around Rutherford ++. I thought Rutherford was a top three prospect in the draft last year. Collins was a safer pick, but Rutherford is big time ceiling. Agree on Rutherford. Him plus Frazier (with some lower level pieces) would be enough to carry a deal for me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 18, 2016 -> 10:13 PM) I still cannot believe that Houston would do everything else they've done this offseason, watch Boston get Sale, and then say "we've done enough" when a pitcher like Quintana is sitting there waiting for them and their rotation is that questionable. Nah, IMO they know they need him. They're just playing hardball in the market. Since no one else seems to be stepping up to challenge them, they probably figure there's no rush to bid against themselves and up their offer.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 11:10 AM) A reasonable asking price to start with would be: Rodgers + Hoffman or Pint + Tapia for Quintana If Colorado balks at that asking price then: Rodgers + Tapia + + + might work No thanks on Pint. A 19-year-old in Rookie ball is too risky for Quintana. I know there's lots of upside and he's better than the 5+ ERA he put up, but the Sox can do better.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 10:10 AM) if mugrove is the hold up I would love to see Martes/Tucker/Reed/Laureano/Stubbs I think this is the best possible specific package from the Astros. I'd take it, especially if the Rockies aren't seriously involved.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Dec 15, 2016 -> 09:16 AM) Agree. It should be high--but the Eaton trade made it even higher. If we get a top 5 prospect, another top 50 and a first rounder for Eaton--then the return on Quintana pushes into the holy crap range--how to you top that? a top 5, 2 other top 50's and another 1st rounder or top 100? What that would look like for Houston would be Bregman, Martes, Tucker, AND Musgrove! They reportedly balked at that and it didn't even include their top 5 piece! I would LOVE to see the Rockies make a push. Frankly, I like their prospects better than the Astros because Rodgers seems more obtainable than Bregman (not sure why, it just seems like it!) For some reason, I can picture Quintana in a Rockies uniform easier too--seems like the type of pitcher they need. I agree with you here. With Bregman out of the picture, I prefer the Rockies' potential targets to the Astros'. Particularly Rodgers and Dahl, along with secondary pieces like McMahon and Murphy.

The Red Sox seem to have some good prospects. How about Q for Benintendi/Devers/Swihart?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) Until they are actually playing a team off another or a couple, there is no reason for anyone to crack. Washington supposedly upped their Sale offer after they realized their take it or leave it offer wasn't going to be enough. It still wasn't enough. Until Lunhow realizes he is about to lose out or until Hahn realizes he won't get a better offer, there is no reason to budge unless the plan B,C, and Ds are coming off the board. And that is to the White Sox advantage. The contenders need a TOR starter a lot more than the Sox have to get rid of Q in the next several months. It would be nice for the Rockies to enter the fray and dangle Rodgers and/or Dahl to add some competition and urgency. Of course, there well may be multiple other offers out there right now that just aren't as publicized as the Astros'.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 14, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) Yeah I don't get any sense of posturing here. As an aside, I get a kick out of how over-intellectualized the concept of "posturing" is. If unconnected fans on message boards can read through the BS and detect something as "posturing," how seriously would actual MLB executives ever take any of it?

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 11:55 AM) Moving Dahl would run counter to them contending this season, I don't see that happening If they really want Quintana they would offer up Rodgers as a centerpiece + some combination of Tapia/Hoffman/Pint/Marquez/Freeland/Murphy/ETC Not really though. They have three OF spots to fill, and Blackmon, CarGo, Desmond and Parra are all under contract. They could play one of those guys at 1B, or create even more of a logjam by pursing one of the glut of power-hitting 1B types in FA. Dahl is not a spare part by any means, but they have the depth to work with.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 11:35 AM) Well, they need to move an outfielder somehow. Blackmon is probably more likely to be moved in another deal, but I think Dahl will definitely be a discussion point regarding Q. I am also not convinced the Rox wouldn't do Rodgers + Dahl for Q. Comparable package to what the Nats gave up for Eaton in terms of prospect ratings. Absolute best case scenario. I'd be thrilled if that came to pass.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 11:21 AM) Q and Robertson for Dahl, Rodgers ++ is closer. But I would want those ++ to be something other than throw ins. Murphy would be nice as one of them. I don't see Hahn packaging any of his players unless it really gets him what he wants. He has already shown that with Robertson. Agreed. By "lower level," I didn't mean throw ins, I just meant not blue chippers like Dahl and Rodgers.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 11:04 AM) Quintana AND Abreu for Dahl and Rodgers? No thanks. I'd need at 2 out of three of Tapia, McMahon and Murphy in addition to those 2. QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 11:09 AM) Not even that ChiSox. If Quintana AND Abreu are going, i'm requesting Dahl, Rodgers, Hoffman +2 lottery tickets Yeah, if Abreu's in the deal too, it has to be Dahl, Rodgers, Hoffman, plus. But I'd see if the Rockies are really all in on 2017 and try for Quintana and Robertson for a package built around Dahl and Rodgers with some lower level prospects.