Buehrlesque

I will say this, the Sox did kind of screw themselves in the court of public opinion. If the team continues to play well, fans will bemoan the FO for not picking up a bat to contend seriously. If they tank/fade, fans will bemoan them for not trading Samardzija when they had the chance.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:10 PM) If they determined we had slim chances they should have used their best barging chip in Shark QUOTE (RaySox @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:14 PM) Then the part that doesn't make sense is not selling. At least Samardzija, c'mon. I was just referring to the not getting Cespedes (or Upton, or any rental) part. I agree not trading Samardzija is a little puzzling.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:09 PM) Then trade Samardzija. Doing nothing made no sense to me. It is a little puzzling. I wonder if the Sox just had their minds made up not to trade him, or if the packages offered weren't good enough.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:07 PM) Whatever sick of losing out on guys, whether we had the ammo or not it's just disappointing. It's not just about having the amo or making a move to make a move. The Sox knew how slim their playoff chances were this year and they weren't willing to give up any assets for a rental. It makes complete sense.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 10:57 AM) Anything we give up for a rental when our backs are against the wall, is extremely risky. Belton Bill Melton was on yesterday and he had some interesting points (later on he kind of went back on them though, but I'll ignore that for the purpose of this post). Bottom line, he said that he hopes Kenny and Rick execute on whatever they planned to do prior to the streak happening. If they thought they had the goods to win, then do it, if not, then do that, but you shouldn't necessarily let 1.5 weeks of play impact your decisions for the rest of the season. I am actually giving Bill Melton more credit cause he didn't quite say it like that, but it was his point. It is also why I believe it is imperative for the club, if it is going to buy, to buy someone who will be here for the long haul (unless the rental is so cheap it is absurd not to do it, such as Beck for Cespedes or something like that). We should be taking a quasi Ranger mentality (or almost like a 2004 mentality when we acquired Contreras) and while the move might help us contend this year, the goal is for this to make us a better team in 2016 & 2017. With that in mind, when it comes to Shark, Hahn and Kenny have a ton of leverage right now. Dodgers still need that upgrade (and the list of pitchers like Shark is small and some rivals, including the Giants have upgraded). Angels have to also be interested in another pitcher (especially given the moves the Astros just made) and I presume the Yanks would be listening as well. I'm not saying I'm ready to sell as I want to buy and have said I want to buy (but potentially do a controlled sell as well). Given where the market is, if the Sox get the right offer, I don't blame them for selling Shark while still buying a bat elsewhere. I also am okay with them buying a bat and going for this thing, but please, please, do not buy a rental or make a bunch of moves ignoring our future. And also, please do not stand pat. This team, without another bat, has very low odds at fending things off, and at that point, given the leverage I presume we have with Shark, we'd be better off moving Shark, getting some talent who could help us in 2016 & 2017, while giving Erik Johnson and maybe even Montas some time in the bigs to see what we have in them. We can always then make another push to sign Shark in the off-season (if that is the move we want to make). I don't think you have to worry. I think KW and RH are well aware of this team's true postseason chances and are not foolish enough to pay anything even remotely significant for a rental. Even in the past, when the Sox were more serious contenders than they are now, midseason acquisitions tended to be guys that can help for multiple seasons (Peavy, Rios, Edwin Jackson, even back to Contreras).

I don't see why the Rays would trade Longoria when they are ahead of us in the standings, but sure. It's funny how some of the same names from last winter are popping up again: Longoria, CarGo, Bruce...

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 06:55 PM) RF is a bigger need. They're both needs, but I'd say 3B is tougher to fill because it is so hard to find a good 3Bman anywhere around the majors, whereas there are usually a few good OFs available at any given time.

QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 06:55 AM) If the Sox trade for Upton or Cespedes and give up Anderson, Montas, or Hawkins it clearly shows that KW and not Hahn is running the show. I want the the Sox to win desperately, but player development needs to be the key trait of this organization. If the Sox were in first place by five games, different story. Hawkins? He isn't even a top 10 guy anymore. If someone wants him in exchange for an impact major leaguer, I'd do it easily.

Maybe the market for Upton is softer than expected. I don't see the Sox giving up anything significant for a rental.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 02:39 PM) I know you were kidding, but that SoxNet account mentioned that too for some reason. Just because player so and so isn't in a lineup in late July, way too many people feel a need to make it out to mean something other than most baseball players don't play 162 games a year. Kris Bryant also out of the line up tonight!!!111!!

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 03:03 PM) Source: Justin Sellers has been traded to the #WhiteSox. Sellers? I thought we all decided we were buyers now?

I can't see the Sox giving up anything of value for a rental. If the Padres want to give away Upton, or the Tigers Cespedes, virtually for free, then sure. But it's not the Sox MO to do otherwise (unless it's a cheap-o band aid like Youkilis). CarGo, Gomez, Bruce are more in keeping with the Peavy and Rios-style moves that theoretically help now and next year.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 01:57 PM) There's no denying that Frazier would be magnificent for his performance and contract, but the price would likely be very, very high. That is one guy I would empty the farm for. Good third basemen are incredibly rare, and I don't see many avenues for the Sox to get one.

The Yankees starting staff isn't very good, and now Pineda is headed to the DL. After seeing the big deals for Price, Hamels and Cueto, are they going to make a splash themselves? Hypothetical: Suppose they get desperate/ultra-aggressive and all of a sudden offer Aaron Judge in a package for Samardzija. Even with the Sox recent hot streak, would you take it?

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 30, 2015 -> 01:30 PM) I can see us acquiring Adam Lind. Now that the Cardinals are out of the running for him, our chances are better. He'd be a great LaRoche replacement, and the price won't be too high. As bad as he's been, I still can't see the Sox out-and-out replacing LaRoche. Just doesn't seem like something they would do. IMO, LaRoche is going to play. The only "LaRoche demotion-like" thing I could see the Sox doing is getting a better hitter in the OF that would reduce LaRoche's role to more of a platoon player (if Avi is not part of any trade).

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 03:28 PM) Was about to say exactly that. When the first WC was added, people complained that it devalued division titles. The second one basically fixes that by forcing the one and done. I really like that aspect. It does devalue the 162-game season, which needs to be shortened to be taken seriously. However I'll take the 2WC format over the old format every day.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 02:19 PM) Davidson, Montas, Danish, and Anderson for Longoria I would do that without thinking twice, which probably mean it's not enough.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 01:15 PM) That likely means in order to get him we'd have to trade a prospect I'd be unwilling to give up. Pass. Yeah, not gonna happen. Trading for CarGo is attractive because of a perceived low price. (Compare that to Jay Bruce — the Reds asked for Zach Wheeler from the Mets.) I think it's just posturing on the Rockies end anyway. If they're offered anything halfway decent I think they'd take it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 11:42 AM) What do you determine as "Super High"? We certainly have the ammunition to get him but it's going to likely require parting with someone we'd hope for the big league squad, maybe a couple someones. I feel Gonzalez is attainable for Chris Beck-type prospects (outside of the top 10) plus potential salary relief (John Danks). Salary relief is clearly not an option for a potential Bruce trade, and I would guess our more upper echelon pitching prospects would be in play. If that's the case, I'd rather keep the good prospects and get CarGo.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 11:27 AM) That's because CarGo comes with an onerous contract and the dueling red flags of injury history and away splits. I just get a bad feeling. Regarding contracts, I believe they're both under control through 2017, but Bruce is about 13 million cheaper for the remainder of their deals and his 2017 season is under a team option with a $1M buyout. There's a lot less risk with him. If we're talking defense, well either one is replacing Avi so they won't be a downgrade. Ah, you're right, they are signed for the same length. My bad. I like CarGo a little more, but would be happy with Bruce if the price wasn't super high.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 11:22 AM) Yeah, I struggled to think what would make sense. Would the Jays have given up all that for Shark, I doubt it. Clearly Alexei would go in any deal (and yes he'd be a downgrade over either of their SS's). Would Q for Tulo make sense? Talent wise, absolutely, but factoring in contract, I wouldn't do it. That said, Tulo's deal isn't horrific, in fact, it would be good if he could stay on the field (but he can't). So would Tulo for Shark, Alexei, and prospects work...I still don't know cause the Jays clearly wouldn't need prospects, they are looking to contend. At the same time, this would be a deal between 2 teams directly competing for each other (again, which makes no sense). Like I said, crazy thoughts, but hey, who knows. For all the reasons you mention, this is pure fantasy talk with no chance of actually happening. Nonetheless, fun! I don't think the Samardzija package would get it done, but I wouldn't say no right away if Quintana's name came up.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 11:01 AM) Bruce is a good hitter. Not overpaid. Would not just be a gamble for this season but would help the next two. He'd be worth the talent we would give up. This Carlos Gonzalez talk from people, now that has disaster written all over it. I don't think the gap is that big. CarGo is only 1.5 years older than Bruce, has a better stats both this year and career wise (insert Coors caveat here), is considered a better defender, would come cheaper prospect-wise and is signed longer term.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 10:58 AM) Not sure I'd want Tulo though with that contract and injury history, plus he's about to be on the wrong side of 30. He's the best shortstop in baseball, a superstar, in his prime, on both sides of the ball, with a market-rate contract, putting up a >800 OPS in what's considered a "down season." Yes, there are warts like with anyone else, but you're missing the forest for the trees if you pass on him. I would definitely have taken him and his full contract.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 29, 2015 -> 08:43 AM) the sox FO has said this is a 3-yr plan.... i say stay the course, no matter how tempting it is to make the playoff. to acquire the pieces to fix this team, at least for a temp fix, the team will loose assets. valuable assets that will leave this farm with a hole. this is a tempting position to be in. but a dangerous one. too bad, the sox never finished the rebuilding in the off season....... now don't get me wrong, if the sox proves me wrong.... i would be ecstatic and i will cheer hard for a victory in the playoff. "3-year plan" is just a buzz term really. The Sox want to compete next year and will have to acquire players to improve the team at some point (for this year, next year or the year after) no matter what. Pitching and middle infield are spots that can be improved from within — but OF and 3B help will have to be imported from elsewhere. The appeal of CarGo is a good player in his prime years on a not-completely-unreasonable contract (compared to what others will get) that won't cost a ton of prospects. I honestly have no idea how the Sox will fill the hole at 3B besides crossing their fingers that Trey becomes an everyday player in a couple of years.

The Sox as buyers. How crazy of a turnaround is this? I honestly don't think the odds of them playing nearly flawless ball the rest of the way and overtaking four teams are very good, but what's the downside I guess. I just hope whatever they do fits into their plan for 2016 (and '17), when they are more legit contenders. If they're willing to spend serious money this offseason on Heyward, Upton or Gordon, then I'd say stand pat for now. I doubt that's the case though, so I like the idea of exploring trades for CarGo or Puig.