Buehrlesque

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 16, 2015 -> 09:32 AM) Right. Outside of getting Shark, no prospects were sacrificed and event then it was Semien (at position where they had, at the time, two seemingly MLB ready players), Bassitt (a swingman), Phegley (AAAA catcher) and Ravelo (spent time injured). If the Sox (somehow) get back into contention and Shark helps with a push, it works. It looks like they'll be able to get some nice prospects in this seller's market if they don't. I kind of meant "historically speaking" more than just this year — trading good prospects for Swisher to play out of position in CF and then underperform, trading good prospects for Edwin Jackson (big contract relative to his stats in Arizona), giving up draft picks for older FAs who disappoint, bringing in an expensive closer when they're an organization known for developing cheaper, effective alternatives (Robertson vs. the Jenks/Santos/Reed/Jones template), etc. None of those things worked out well, but none of them were out-and-out disasters like what happened to the Padres.

What a great article (duh, it's Rany — best in the biz). Sad though. Has the phrase "at least that ain't us!" ever been more apt? The Sox have done mini-versions of this — giving up prospects, draft picks and salary room for half-baked/superficial bad fits that went on to underperform — but never to this ludicrous level. Thank goodness!

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 8, 2015 -> 04:27 PM) Do you pay 10 bucks to see a great movie, sure, lots of people do. Do you pay 10 bucks to see Gigli, hell no (or at least I hope not...that would be a bannable offense). Yes, the 2015 White Sox are the theatric version of Gigle. :lol:

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2015 -> 04:21 PM) You can't be telling me that the United Center is a better location and neighborhood then USCF. That was one of eight factors I mentioned that are different between the two stadiums. The UC may be easier to get to than the Cell for many, and the West Side has certainly been built up greatly since the '80s, but that's not the main point to take away from my post at all.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2015 -> 04:17 PM) For whatever reason, Sox fans are the only ones in Chicago who seem to hold the logic that not showing up makes them better fans. As long as that mentality exists, there is no REAL comparison between Sox fans and anyone else in Chicago, because they are the ones who are different. It isn't neighborhood, or safety, or bars, seat color, the direction the stadium faces, or anything else. I will never get why people take such personal offense to that, when it is White Sox fans who say stuff like that. And to go back full circle to the begining of the recent discussion, when you don't go to games, or take in games, FOR WHATEVER REASON, the media isn't going to cover you as much either, because they know they will make more views, clicks, ratings, attendance, phone calls, etc off of Cubs fans. Pretty much the only thing Sox fans respond to these days is to be offended about something. I don't think anybody here is making this point. We're just given the real and logical reasons why people don't go to the Cell, and the factors other stadiums/teams have in their favor.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2015 -> 03:58 PM) Even when the Bulls were a perpetual laughing stock, they were amongst the NBA's attendance leaders. This has little to nothing to do with why people don't go to the Cell. The Bulls transcended the sport of basketball for nearly a decade and built an enormous residual season ticket waiting list to show for it. That's a season ticket list for 41 games at a 21,000 stadium, both HALF of what the Sox have to fill. Considering the differences in sport, stadium, location, indoor/outdoor/weather factor, number of games, stadium capacity, team success history, and that residual season ticket waiting list, I really don't think you can draw many comparisons from that to the plight of Sox and the Cell.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 8, 2015 -> 01:39 PM) Yet Cubs fans kept going to Wrigley Field in droves long before there was any hope or improvement. The only "nonsense" trotting out whatever the excuse du jour is, while people in the same town do the exact opposite of said excuse. In the aggregate, Sox fans aren't that different than Cubs fans (or Mariners fans, or Padres fans or Royals fans, etc.). I buy that there is some truth to the "Sox fans have a different/more winning-oriented/more excuse-making mindset than Cubs fans," but not by nearly enough to explain the humongous gap in attendance. There's a reason Sox fans seem to behave differently, and it's not just something unique to their brains. People don't go to the Cell because the team is bad, the stadium is far away and the experience is unexciting and unpopular. If going to the Cell was considered as appealing as going to Wrigley, people would go. The demographic of the fandom is nowhere near as different from other fandoms (Cubs especially, but also other major league baseball teams, as well as the Bulls, Blackhawks and Bears) as you make it seem.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jul 8, 2015 -> 01:34 PM) Good posts. I'm all for trading Q and Jeff. Get some position players. I'll admit the bar is a little lower with Samardzija, since the opportunity cost is a few months of starts for a last place team and a comp. pick when he leaves as a FA. But with Quintana, you better be getting a freaking HAUL! Trading Quintana for pitching prospects, no matter how good, doesn't make any sense at all to me.

An elite arm like Stroman, Norris, Hoffman, Severino or Urias would be un-pass-up-able. Otherwise, the Sox just set an ALL-TIME team record for home offensive futility, have no significant help coming from the farm, and are faced with a meh free agent class this winter. Getting a significant bat via trade has to be a priority.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jul 7, 2015 -> 01:33 PM) I am not really interested in Judge. I think he is too big and that major league pitchers will take a lot more advantage of his expanded strike zone. He is a good player but not one I am taking a chance on to be an impact player. I would rather have the comp pick as that will give the Sox a lot more slot flexibility to get some high level talent in the draft next year and you can spread your risk out over four players rather than just putting all your eggs in the Judge basket. You make a good point about the flexibility a comp pick provides, but Judge is putting up a .281/.352/.487 line in AA/AAA right now. That's pretty good, and I'd take it over the uncertain, years-away production of a comp pick who is a risk to ever even get to that level.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 7, 2015 -> 10:35 AM) Judge has helium. The Yankees love him. I'd trade Shark for him 1 for 1, but I highly doubt Judge is on the table. I'd do that 1 for 1 also. In fact, I'd take that over most of the projected Blue Jays packages.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 7, 2015 -> 10:05 AM) Exactly, but you start out with Severino and work your way from there. If Sanchez is the headliner of a Samardzija deal, I would be disappointed. If Samardzija pitches well against the Jays on Thursday, I really think they will overpay for him. Like Norris, Pentecost and Pompey I agree. I also think it's important to focus on higher-upside, closer-to-the-majors bats than pitchers, catchers and lower-minors projects. Judge would be perfect, IMO.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jul 7, 2015 -> 09:50 AM) I think Sanchez is a bit overrated. If the Yankees are calling, I'm starting out the conversation with Severino or Judge. Judge is the guy for me. I doubt you're getting Severino anyway, and why waste your time.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 26, 2015 -> 12:02 PM) It would have been throwing the season then. A team cannot expect to content without a solid shortstop. Any idea of trading him was gone when they traded for Shark. They could have traded everyone before that but not after. And ironically, not trading Alexei might prove more costly than trading for Samardzija, at least opportunity cost-wise. I like Semien, but I wonder what would end up being more significant: Semien/Ravelo/Bassitt/Phegley, or the prospects they could have gotten for Alexei. Factor in the comp pick or trade return they'll get for Samardzija after/during this year, which lessens the amount of loss in that trade even further, and not getting the potential 2014 Alexei package might be the bigger loss. It's all moot anyway because, as you said, the course was set after the Samardzija trade.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 12:45 PM) Of course, right now the Sox have catchers that are also worse than everyone else (which is the case for 7 of their lineup slots), so just getting up to a bad catcher is still an improvement. It'd be an upgrade, no doubt. It's just to me it feels like adding an elite closer to a 90-loss team. It's a wasted luxury. Or I guess a complementary piece. Who cares if you have a good 7 or 8 place hitter when the middle of your line up isn't producing? Let's get some centerpiece hitters in here first before the lower-priority complementary pieces.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 11:56 AM) Most catchers are mediocre major leaguers. The position is thin at best around MLB. My point exactly. The Sox have bad catchers, other teams have bad catchers. However, the Sox have bad everything else as well, while other teams don't. That's the gap that's making the team so bad.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 11:26 AM) NOT catchers supposed to be green? I feel like any catcher the sox can acquire will end up as a mediocre major leaguer. While that's definitely an upgrade from the clown show they have now, it's not really a cornerstone that will greatly affect the offense. I'd rather see them get a true impact, middle-of-the-order potential hitter. Wasting resources on a catcher who will be a 7 or 8 place hitter anyway feels like a waste for me, when this organization is lacking in so many other areas.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jun 25, 2015 -> 11:15 AM) I know the Sox develop pitching much better than hitting, and you can never have too much pitching, but at some point they gotta start bringing some hitting in. If I'm trading Shark (or Q) I'm looking for a package built around an advanced bat. This is what I think as well. Try to target advanced bats — preferably outfielders, third basemen and NOT catchers.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jun 10, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) Without a #2 and #3 pick, this draft feels anticlimactic. Fulmer and a few others will be good additions to FutureSox, but it feels to me like the draft after Fulmer is just filling minor league roster space. Should I feel differently? I don't know about "just filling space," but I would say don't expect anybody drafted yesterday or today to crack any organization Top 10 lists. (Fulmer will be No. 1 or 2 probably.) Hopefully someone like Stephens, Hickman or Glines can have a really nice early showing and move up some lists.

Five rounds in and three pitchers, no hitters. It seems like the organization thinks they have a better chance of turning a meh college pitcher into a legit prospect or average major leaguer than they do turning any kind of hitting prospect into something similar. Considering their track record in both regards, it's not really a bad strategy.

Suppose that in the first seven picks (in whatever order), all the "big" names are gone The SSs (Swanson, Rodgers, Bregman) and the pitchers (Jay, Tate, Fulmer). Who would you like to see the Sox take in this scenario? Personally, I'd bypass Harris and go for Benintendi or maybe Happ.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 8, 2015 -> 09:07 AM) I am hoping the Sox get Fulmer, and if not, Jay. If both those guys are gone, one of the SS. I know Stephenson is the flavor of the week, but HS catchers are really hard to project. I know the organization can use catching, every single organization can, but they usually take longer to develop, especially a HS guy. I'd rather they spend 4th-10th rounders on a college guy. If the guy turns into Ron Karkovice, it's a win, and I don't think you want to spend the 8th pick on that. The Sox did pick Kurt Brown 5th in 1985. Barry Bonds was the next selection. My thoughts exactly.

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) If Jay was still there for the Sox at #8, would they not take him just because they would prefer a right handed starter? I mean they already have Sale, Q, and Rodon long term, and I'm not sure that they'd want another lefty in the rotation. It seems like the Sox are pretty high on Jay. If he's there at 8, they're taking him, regardless of if he throws left-handed, right-handed or via a prosthetic third arm.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 08:19 AM) Swirsky isn't great but the broadcast is much more enjoyable than the Hawk Harrelson Show. If you've noticed, the umpires haven't been out to get the Sox since Hawk left.... Much more enjoyable. I knew I didn't care for Hawk anymore, but I didn't realize the extent of it until I saw the stark comparison. Swirsky and Stone (while not perfect) have been a breath of fresh air. It is sad how completely stale, irrelevant and uninteresting the broadcasts have become with Hawk.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 04:27 PM) If it's not RV, it's KW or JR or DC or freaking Chris Rongey or something. I made a new logo: Haha, that is great!