Buehrlesque

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:50 PM) I like it. Still think we need Benintendi, as well as Moncada, in any deal with the BoSox. Bradley Jr. doesn't excite me that much, honestly. Agreed. No offense to Bradley, but I'd take Moncada, Benintendi and (theoretically) Betts ahead of him. QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 26, 2016 -> 03:53 PM) For Sale? If Chapman & Pomerez are worth top 20 prospects (plus some for Chapman), you're telling me Sale isn't worth two top 10 prospects? I'm definitely not dealing Sale to the Red Sox without both Moncada & Benintendi in the deal. Anything less is a huge undersell IMO. And agreed. Those two plus other significant pieces.

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) If I am being completely honest, I'd like to trade Sale over Q mainly for the reason that if you look at their WAR since 2013 they are right in line. Also, not that it has or will happen but people have always made a deal about his mechanics. And finally, and the most important reason, the perception. When people put together supposed dream deals for Sale they are including 3-5 top prospects. When they do the same deal with Q, they include 2 prospects, and then some low level guys. If not doing a total rebuild I think there is a lot to be said about trading Sale. Let's just use for example the Sale to Boston example. Let's say it includes Moncada, Benintendi, Henry Owens, +?? Now trade Robertson, maybe Lawrie and a few other pieces and I think this team isn't much worse day 1 of the trade with the ability to get better. You'd have Moncada and Anderson up the middle. Re-sign Frazier. Abreu at 1B. OF would be Melky, Benintendi, Eaton. It really doesn't sound terrible. Some mix of power and speed. More versatile. Your rotation still has Q, Rodon, Fulmer which isn't ideal but not awful. You have Collins coming up as DH or C by 2018. I mean, not awful at all. That also being said, I wouldn't mind the total tear down either. I am just going through this scenario because I think trading just 2-3 pieces could really make this team a ton better offensively. I agree the scorched earth, six-plus year rebuild isn't the only way to go. There's a lot of middle ground between that and the patchwork one-year-at-a-time "go for it" approach the Sox have been trying repeatedly. Trading Sale for this specific Red Sox package would do nearly 100% of the heavy lifting for a new, young core that could compete within a year or two and be together for a while.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 11:40 AM) I need Kopech in that deal as well. In addition to Betts, Moncada and Benintendi? Those three with nothing else would be good enough for me.

In a situation this extreme, there's no point in fighting perception. Due to his value being a bit tarnished by perception/name recognition/win total, etc., the Sox are just not going to get enough value in a Quintana trade to make it worthwhile. No GM is going to empty his farm system for a name that doesn't fully energize the fan base. Sale on the other hand...

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 25, 2016 -> 10:29 AM) It's such that Betts, Moancada, Benintendi and Swihart for Sale/Robertson no longer seems crazy. If the Sox could pull this off, wow. It's my absolute No. 1 dream scenario.

What do people think of Swihart? Now that he's moved off catcher, is he anything more than a run of the mill prospect? Looks like he hits for a decent average, and takes a walk, but has a pretty low slugging pct. and isn't a speed demon.

Sale + Robertson for Betts, Moncada, Benintendi and Ball. Plugs three major league holes in 2017. It's a rebuilding move, but not a total tear-down job, which is much riskier and the Sox shy away from anyway. Does Boston make that trade? I don't think so, but that's about the only one I can think of that would recoup full value for Sale. I wouldn't settle for anything less.

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Jul 24, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) But the rationale behind moving one should lead you to moving the other. Not saying it gets done by the deadline but both should go if one is moved. If you move Q and wait til the offseason to move Sale, that's fine and dandy but at the end of the day, what the heck's the point of keeping one or the other if we're probably gonna be a dumpster fire for a couple years? Things change fast in baseball, and maybe the Sox wouldn't be a dumpster fire for long. Let's just say you are able to get Moncada, Benindendi and Betts for Sale (maybe you add a reliever). You've immediately plugged three major league holes and could compete as soon as 2018, with Quintana.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 03:58 PM) If Q is going to the Dodgers, my prediction is for Urias/Bellinger/Verdugo QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 04:00 PM) Have to get Urias back IMO. QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 04:00 PM) Any deal with the Dodgers sans Urias is a failure. Serious question: What would be the point of trading Quintana for Urias? Best case scenario, Urias turns into a pitcher as good as Quintana. Quintana, who already is a pitcher as good as Quintana, is signed reasonably for four more years. Urias, a rookie, has six years' control. So basically you can have Quintana for four more years, or a guy who might be as good as Quintana for six years. Is that two years of upside, mitigated by the bust risk, really worth it? Four years is a long time! With the condition that the Sox will be attempting to compete in 2018 or 2019 (which I think they will, even in a rebuild they're not going to punt more than a season or two), I just don't see the point in trading Q for a pitcher at all. If the Sox trade him, it should be for multiple impact bats.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) I do not trust this organization and their professional scouting ability to make the right choices in trading these players. Eh, I think this narrative is starting to get a little out of hand/misguided. Things haven't worked out, and I do doubt the org's ability to make a decision on a specific direction, but the specific trades are usually pretty good. After a dismal 2013, they assembled four potential core pieces: Garcia, Abreu, Eaton and Davidson, all on good deals. Then they got lost after 2014 with the half assed "going for it." Still, IMO the Samardziija, Lawrie, Frazier and Shields trades have all been good transactions on their own, even if I didn't agree with the intent at the time. I'm not saying this front office has earned our complete trust — they haven't, their minor league pipeline has been disappointing and their veteran trade/free agent targets have underperformed. But I think most of the mistakes have come from philosophy/not picking a firm direction. It may seem like a small difference, but basically I'm saying, if they do indeed decide to sell, I do have confidence they could make a good deal.

I know it's a popular idea in theory right now, especially in the moment with the team being so terrible, but I just don't see the "king's ransom" theory converting over into reality. I can't see any team actually ponying up the actual, sky-high, ridiculous market price it would take to acquire Sale. Because, to be fair to what he's worht, talent-wise, contract-wise and everything, it would be a nearly unprecedented haul. IMO, a fair Sale trade works better in theory than it would in practice. Thus, I wouldn't "shop" Sale or try to negotiate trades or anything. I would set a take-it-or-leave-it package, and just keep him when/if it's not met.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 23, 2016 -> 03:22 PM) I just wonder what exactly they are "monitoring". I suppose it all has to do with whether or not LaRoche wants to file a grievance. It's all for appearances. Nothing is going to be done but they have to look diligent.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Feb 26, 2016 -> 09:41 AM) Austin Jackson rises above "bad," and I'm not overrating him by saying that. He'd be worth 2/$17M. I fully expect that you're right and he'll sign somewhere else though. Eh. He offers an equal or arguably worse bat than Avi at more than double the price. Yes, his D is important (especially considering the Sox current OF), but I think Hahn will find a better value for the money elsewhere.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 26, 2016 -> 09:31 AM) Murphy is bad Everyone left as a FA is bad, including Austin Jackson, who has become overrated in the past few weeks now that all the good OFs are gone. Yes his D is solid, but his bat has been downright awful, and he's not coming at some Rollins or Latos-like discount. Boras will get him his money, and I don't think it will be with the Sox. Hahn must have a trade, secret target or obvious target, lined up. I just can't imagine what's taking so long to complete it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 26, 2016 -> 08:56 AM) If he loved the Cubs as much as he says he does, then he would have just accepted the QO. Right on. I'm not understanding all the Cubbie-Fowlie love. He actually took a pay cut from the Cubs official offer. Cubs offered $15.8M guaranteed. Fowler declines and then signs for... $13M guaranteed?? Even Howie Kendrick nominally beat his QO when he crawled back to the Dodgers with his tail between his legs. If Fowler really loved the Cubs so much (which is a little odd anyway since he's only played there for one year of his decade-long career), he should have just taken their first offer. If he wanted more money, he should have signed with Baltimore. If the Cubs really appreciated Fowler's loyalty, they should have honored initial the $15.8M guarantee as opposed to undercutting him. It's like Fowler got played, and yet he comes away smiling. I don't get it.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 12, 2016 -> 11:45 AM) Desmond and his agent have been selling himself on his willingness to play the outfield. Whether he would actually be good at it is a different question. I don't see the appeal of this. Desmond is a good hitter for a SS — a limited pool where the bar is not super high and he plays acceptable defense. His offensive production as an outfielder — where there are more choices available and a higher bar to clear — would make him pretty uninspiring. And that doesn't even take his defense into account — who knows if he'd be good relative to his position as an OF like he is at SS with the glove.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Feb 3, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) Austin Jackson AND Ethier should would be nice. vs. RHP: LF: Cabrera CF: Eaton RF: Ethier DH: LaRoche vs. LHP LF: Cabrera CF: Jackson RF: Eaton DH: Avi Shuck is 5th OF and Sands is in AAA where he belongs. Probably a pipe dream, though. This is what I've been thinking lately too. Actually not that far-fetched, cost-wise. If the Dodgers pay half of Ethier's salary, that brings the Sox commitment to about $9 mil/year. Jackson earned $7.7 mil last year, and Scott Boras doesn't do pay cuts, so figure him for around $9 mil. That's about $18 mil total, which ls less than a Gordon/Cespedes salary they had the budget for. With platoons, we could expect similar overall production. This comes with the caveat that Ethier could be had relatively cheap — specifically less than or equal to the value of a comp pick.

Great list guys. The only thing I would say is that #8 is way too high for Adolfo, but then again I'm more of a production guy that purely projection. It's not Adolfo's fault he doesn't have the production yet — he's 18 years old! But he has a loooong way to go and I need to see more before I rank him that high.

Bud Black – Great track record in San Diego before this year's doomed team.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 03:45 PM) I think Upton will be a bad idea. Teams are too enamored with his skill set and his one season and tend to ignore his actual production, which will good, is nowhere near as good as the contract he'll get. The same might happen with Heyward and the real question is how his defensive value will trend as he ages and whether you bet on his bat continuing to improve or not. Guy is loaded with talent and should be a much better hitter then he is. Cespedes would seem like the guy who would be the best value signing...how will he age is a question but if you can get him 3 years, 4 max, then it might not be so bad. Part of it depends on what he does in the post-season (if he gets to the post-season) as that could inflate his value if he gets all hot. I'm more wary of Cespedes. He's older than both Heyward and Upton, and I'm worried he's having a career year in 2015 and would slip back to 2013-14 levels in his next contract.

QUOTE (AlSoxfan @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 03:37 PM) I think you're correct. I was thinking more along the lines of a shorter contract of 3 or 4 yrs and then hitting the FA market again at 29 or 30 yrs of age. The way things today seem to be, are the opt-out deals. I would love to have him but like you I doubt the Sox will sign him. If they do by chance sign him I can't see them signing anyone else or taking on any other bigger contracts such as Shark or any of our other needs. A short contract would be great, but I doubt he'll have to settle for it when he can have his cake and eat it too with a long contract with opt out. I hate to bring up the name CarGo again, but he'll give you comparable (slightly worse) production for a fraction of the price. CarGo for 2 years/$37 mil (plus a prospect or two) or Heyward for 7 years/$140 mil (plus a draft pick). I doubt Heyward does enough to justify the enormous additional cost.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 4, 2015 -> 02:20 PM) I think you're in the game with that offer but I honestly really don't know what he'll get. He's the kind of player we haven't seen on the FA market before - a guy who is extremely young, in the era of the exploding TV deals, gets a huge amount of his value by being a strong defender, and could still have offensive upside beyond what we've seen so far. He could get an offer approaching $200 and I wouldn't be that surprised, would you? And he'll probably get an opt-out halfway through so if he's really good, he's gone, and if he's not, you're stuck with the contract. I like Heyward but doubt the Sox will come anywhere near the ludicrous contract it will take to sign him.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:36 PM) Upton will go on waivers, Braun will go on waivers, Victor Martinez will go waivers, Stephen Vogt will go on waivers, hell even Longoria will go on waivers. I could go on for a while. Upton and Longoria will not pass through waivers. The Sox aren't going to take on a full time DH like Martinez. As a platoon catcher, Vogt doesn't really move the needle much for this team (if he passes through). Braun would be a possibility I guess, though not one I would be excited about.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:28 PM) THEY CAN STILL PICK UP A BAT!!! Well, CarGo will most likely pass through waivers. Of course, they couldn't use Avi Garcia in the trade now though, because he won't pass. What other waiver wire bats are you suggesting?

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 31, 2015 -> 03:28 PM) How about the outside chance that the Sox know they have a great chance of extending Samardzija once the season ends, but only if he's still on the team? That makes sense because, by keeping him, they essentially lowered the offers he'll get from other teams in FA (due to the comp pick). Thus they lowered the price it would take for them to re-sign him.