Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 05:22 PM) If this means a lot of Mark Teahen and I think it does mean that, then that is simply not good. I mean if CQ is gone, Teahen will play a ton. I think that's a fact, jack. Nothing says "All In" like Mark Teahen in RF everyday.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 05:14 PM) Hopefully we can get 2 really good relievers for Q. Tony Pena was a really good young reliever. He looked so nasty when the DBacks were in the playoffs, almost certainly the closer of that team for the next several years. Now he's our long man. Really good relievers aren't necessarily really good. I hop Kenny doesn't do that.

If we go young in the OF (which is fine IMO if it's a strong defensive player and there's some offensive potential as well) then we need to get a guy that could lock a position down for a few years. At best, DeAza is a better version of DeWayne Wise IMO.

Quentin and specs for Garza goddamnit. Then deal a starter for OF AND RP help. Trading Q for relievers alone scares the s*** out of me.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 04:39 PM) I don't think the Rays want unproven prospects for Garza. Tyler Colvin might be someone the Rays would want back, although that's not likely to happen. 9:54pm: The Cubs and Rays met again to talk about a potential trade that would send Garza to Chicago for prospects, according to Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com. The Brewers and Rangers have also met with the Rays about Garza, but the Cubs have the strongest current bid, according to Levine. However, Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel hears that talks between the Rays and Brewers did not progress (Twitter link). 5:17pm: The Rays have been uninspired by the offers for Garza and may hold on to the right-hander until next summer, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post (on Twitter). 10:40am: The Cubs are one of four teams in the mix for Rays righty Matt Garza, reports ESPN's Bruce Levine. The Rays are interested in receiving prospects in return. That's what is out there. I don't think the Cubs would be interested in this deal if they had to gut what they're building.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 04:01 PM) I can't see Castro, but Colvin and Cashner have to be at the top of the list. Maybe Cashner but I can't see why they'd have to trade Colvin. Besides, so far it's been said that TB would be getting prospects, and Cashner at this point is past that. He appeared in 53 games last year.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 10, 2010 -> 04:24 PM) lol just what the hell are the Cubs trying to do? Weren't they going to rebuild? Keeping their young Major Leaguers while trading unproven prospects for someone like Garza, and then extending him to a reasonable deal, would qualify as rebuilding. Rebuilding projects usually fail when they try to have all their prospects come up at once and turn into viable Major Leaguers. That rarely happens.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 03:20 PM) I liked when Kenny said it, but I hate it as a slogan. It also drives me nuts how poorly designed that billboard is... Reinsdorf has a long and storied habit of presiding over some pretty terrible ad campaigns. I did like the AJ/Buehrle commercial last year though. That was a nice change of pace. And the original grinder rules was innovative.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 03:10 PM) I dunno about this...when you look at what their guys did last year, they got barely 210 games played out of Ellsbury, Cameron, and Drew, and most of those were from Drew (who hasn't been the paragon of health in his career). They basically got 1 1/3 of a season from their starting 3 OF's. They're fully justified in holding all 4 guys if they can afford to, based on how they performed last year. Yeah, I guess you've got a point. I wonder what they're going to do with Kalish though. They have 5 OF right now.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:48 PM) Well, the people on this forum do seem to be more rational, and considerably more polite. I think a good reason for that is that here the mods let you get away with more, and that actually encourages a conversation. I used to tell WC all the time (BTW where is he anyway?) that he wasn't a Sox fan when he'd say something negative about MB and I think it pissed him off. I do that s*** all the time. But the good part about the mods looking past that is that it forces both sides to defend their positions. If I logged into WSI and told someone to go suck one for saying something bad about AJ then I'd just get banned right away and the wannabe mods would be all like "yippie! oh goody goody!" and all that, but instead of getting rid of a bad poster, by banning me they'd just lose out on what could have been a good debate. Now you're probably not the type of person to say "go suck one" but you probably would be seen as an Soxoterrorist by pushing the limits through your opinions and then it's just a matter of time before someone says something and then the opportunity for a good debate ends. QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:48 PM) Regarding Pierre, I don't think that he is awful, but I did argue that his OBP is not high enough for a guy who doesn't get any Xtra basehits, or even drive the ball. The way I look at it, if he led off every time he came up, his production might be acceptable. The problem is that he's only guaranteed to lead off once per game. When he comes to the plate with guys on base, his ability to steal bases is irrelevant. How many times has he come to the plate with a guy on second and no out, or on third with less than two outs? He can't be counted on to even hit a sacrifice fly, as that's further than he's capable of hitting a baseball. As he ages, and loses a step, he is losing his ability to get all of those infield hits, that he got when he was younger. When you combine that with his weak arm, I'm just not impressed with his skill set. But wow, you'd think that I was a complete idiot for even suggesting that the Sox might try to get a better hitter, and defender, to play either RF or CF, so that Carlos could move to left, where he is less of a defensive liability. When I said that Rios could then be a candidate to lead off, by default, as no one else can really steal bases, the posters were just merciless. "Why do I want to make Rios a lead off hitter". I simply figured that he was the best option to do so, if the rest of the line up consisted of something like: Vizquel Konerko Dunn Quentin Drew Ramirez A. J. Beckham Not that we could get, or even afford J. D. Drew, but I thought that would be a great lineup, and Rios would fit nicely at the top. Geez, you can't believe the "hate". A few even suggested that if we were able to acquire someone like Drew, that the Sox should dump Quentin for a couple relievers, and keep Pierre. That is hard for me to comprehend. Pierre is not likely to ever come back to haunt you, but moving Carlos certainly could. What is disturbing is that these guys don't simply disagree, they want to make you out to be an idiot if you disagree with them. Maybe you're right about not posting there anymore. Thanks for being fair minded, and reasonable. It's refreshing. I am totally on board with you about Pierre. My main thing is him in sac situations, it makes me cringe, plus the salary he's making. He's not Teahen-bad but I'd really like an improvement there. It seems like every year we're looking for a lead-off hitter and just once I'd like to have a legitimate one. As for Drew that would really improve the lineup. We'll have to see what the Red Sox do now because there HAS to be someone available. They've just got too many players making money and even though their the Red Sox they still don't want to spend 5X what is necessary to have a good 4th OF. I'd love Ellsbury, but I'd be open to both Drew and Cameron. I'd appreciate better OF defense, and I'd be very open to getting rid of Pierre or making him 4th OF while shifting Carlos to LF and getting a better defender to put in RF. Trust me, you're not an idiot. I've noticed that at SoxTalk these little side conversations pop up all the time. SoxTalk is full of WSI haters. OTOH, when I was at WSI, I never saw that anti-SoxTalk sentiment.

BTW I've been banned a thousand times at both places. I don't really care about that part of it. WSI haters usually hate the ban-happy mods but personally I don't care at all. LOL, I usually take a banning like, "Ok good, now I'm not so damn tempted to post here all the time."

QUOTE (Cali @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:42 PM) Which is HILARIOUS since that board used to be the epitome of negativity with crotchety old men writing articles about how the White Sox will NEVER will a World Series (with scientific theories and all!), and waxing poetic about the 60's... WSI is your musty smelling grandpa, and Soxtalk is your hip young friend who can kinda be a douche sometimes, but hey, he's your friend.... I love the analogy, but I actually liked a lot of the older posters over there. I still remember West, Daver, Lip, etc. and I thought they were all cool (ducking tomatoes) I just didn't like the wannabe mods and stuff. Mainly they just don't have the quality baseball conversation over there though, especially when it comes to MiLB ball. I think the majority of posters on this site are all pretty in tune with our farm system, but that wasn't the case over there.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:40 PM) No doubt about it. I've never had a beef with you or caulfield ( who hates me). I love this board. I can't stay off this motherf***er for some reason. Same here. LOL, I doubt caulfield hates you. He's a nice guy.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) I think I've been permanently banned there about 5 times. They not only do not enjoy negatively charged posts - they also do not tolerate the following: Humor Wit Penises Oh come on, who WOULDN'T tolerate a penis??? I think you're exaggerating just a tad...

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:21 PM) True. WSI is a horrible board. They have like 15000 Scott Merkins over there. You can't even being to say something negative about the franchise without them threatening to ban you. Makes me appreciate the great work Jason, Heads and all the guys do over here that much more. The worst is the gang mentality, it's stupid. I don't care if the mods want to ban people, it's their site, their call, and they seemed like good enough people to me. But it's annoying when a bunch of PC police wannabe mods jump on you. We don't always agree J4L but I'm 100% with you on the SoxTalk staff. They do a great job and really make this the best place for baseball discussions.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) I dont like him much either, but every SB adds to his XBH total IMO. And there isnt really a statistic kept that can show the value of moving from 1st to 3rd or scoring on a single from second. OBP is great and all, but I would HATE having a lineup full of slow guys that cannot take an extra base. You need balance on a baseball team. I hated that deal when the Sox made it and I'm still not a fan, and boy would I love an improvement over Pierre, but I'm definitely okay with speed at the top of the lineup. Besides, .390 OBP sluggers don't exactly grow on trees nor do they come cheaply. And even if they did I still wouldn't want it. It's nice to take the extra base, and it's nice to be able to put down a bunt hit or steal a bag, especially against tough pitching. It's also nice to have that one light-hitting contact/speed guy to look to when the power guys are pressing and giving away ABs late in a game. IIRC it was Juan who kept us from being embarrassingly no-hit by Ted Lilly last year.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 01:33 PM) Thank you for expressing your sentiments regarding Pierre. I've posted several extensive comments on White Sox Interactive about how I would like to see the Sox upgrade the outfield, starting with Pierre. The insults and attacks against my suggestions have been "over the top". Geez, I can't help it if a guy who can't drive the ball out of the infield doesn't excite me. Apparently, a lot of the guys on that board just think that it's all about stolen bases. Pierre can do that, but that's about all he can do. At any rate, it's nice to see that I'm not the only one who is not enamored with J. P.'s game. What are you still doing over there anyway? You have no reason to post anywhere other than SoxTalk.

I've been a Harrell fan for a long time and he showed he has potential to start in the bigs, but he's just got sooo much to work on to do it. I'd love to see him make strides here but he's probably better off in another organization learning there. He's out of options this year so he'll have to make it out of ST. Personally I'd rather trade him for a low-A player with a chance, wish him good luck, and if we're going to keep Pena stick Pena in there as the LR/spot starter. Actually, the idea of Pena back in a setup role scares me more than having to go to a young guy (whoever that may be) for a few starts to open the season.

Cowley has been wrong about everything this offseason. I thought this thread was made in jest and I laughed when I saw it, but I guess not.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 10:38 PM) I can't stand him. His steady stream of titanic-bloated homerism pieces make me want to barf. He makes SS2K5, Ranger and Hawk look pessimistic. Jesus Christ dude. He gets info from the Sox and he puts it down. He's an MLB writer, not a SunTimes columnist. He's not into breaking stories or getting website hits or saying controversial things to create a sense of some kind of "journalistic integrity." His sources are better than Cowley's source for sure, and he's not about to go behind their backs. He's also pleasant to the fans who write him and he can answer their stupid questions in a manner that doesn't scream douchebag. If anything he is what more writers should be. He does exactly what he's paid to do and he does it professionally. There is honor in that. And who gives a f*** if he's a homer? Don't read him then. The MLB site isn't where you go for news anyway.

Santo was a god awful commentator and he didn't add much if anything to the game from what I've gathered listening. However, he was very passionate for his team and that's probably pretty important when you lose year after year. Not trying to rip on Cubs fans for losing either, just saying. Not all Cub fans are idiots who don't understand baseball. A lot of them are smart baseball fans who know Santo wasn't exactly the most talented announcer around, but I'm guessing the love for the team made up for that. I mean, sometimes you have to hear someone go "Oh NOOOOOOOooooooOOOOOOOO!!!" right along with you. Anyway, I hope when it's Hawk and Farmio's time, both of whom are major homers, that the city shows the same kind of support and forgets the Sox/Cubs thing for a little while. For instance, seeing the tribute the Bulls did was really cool.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 9, 2010 -> 09:12 AM) They said on the radio this morning that people were already lined up outside Holy Name in these temperatures at 8:30am for a service that doesn't begin until 4:00 p.m. I just don't understand that. I can't imagine ever doing that for a virtual stranger whom I never met. I can see maybe for someone like John Lennon, but he was a force for global peace, and music as a whole effects me (and probably most other people) more deeply and personally than team sports. Plus, Lennon's death was much more shocking, unexpected and tragic. I guess I'll just come out and say it and then take my beating: Nothing against Ronnie, but I think the way some people (Cub fans) are treating this thing only fuels the argument that the majority of Cubs fans are losers. It's a nice show of respect and he's probably not that much of a stranger to them. I've never met Hawk but there's a better chance I'd go to his service than I'd go to a random neighbor's service, or random coworkers service, and services are always full of random neighbors and coworkers. I don't see why Cub fans going to a service for Santo makes them losers any more than the people who line up for autographs at Sox Fest. Whatever you're into is cool as long as no one else gets hurt in the process. The respect is nice.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:33 PM) I don't think it can be assumed that JR actually authorized a $120 mm payroll, it's been mentioned that KW was given $110 mm. And that possibly could include the midseason additions money, and KW decided to just use it now. We may not be able to an assume a $130M payroll but we can assume a $120M payroll because we already have a $120M payroll. Kenny said we wouldn't have to trade anyone to get Dunn, PK, and potentially a reliever. That means we're at least at $120M and with a reliever that's probably $122M+ depending on who it is. You could be right about Kenny spending the midseason money now though, we don't know that.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:15 PM) Besides the fact that all those trades will never happen, I like the fact that you're just throwing out there a 130 million dollar payroll Right now figuring in arb we're looking at right around $120M exactly as we stand, and adding a reliever puts us above that. We could be looking at a $130M payroll in total if you go with $123-124M available over the offseason plus another $6-7M held back for potential midseason additions.

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Dec 8, 2010 -> 02:10 PM) Yeah wow, I don't see why anyone would want Wood at that price. He's just coming off a 2/$20M or more deal I think. He'll get a lot of money from someone. And truthfully I'd rather have Wood than Soriano. But yeah, it would be scary to give out so much money to a closer. It always is.