Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE(almagest @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 04:02 PM) My desire to not waste $100 on crappy players has almost nothing to do with how much money they make. It doesn't matter to me if it's Andy Gonzales or Gary Matthews, Jr -- if they're terrible, I don't want to see them. And Lohse is terrible -- whether he costs 1 mil/yr or 10 mil/yr, signing him would be a mistake. Sure, a 10 mil/yr investment on Lohse is a worse deal by far... for the White Sox. It really doesn't affect me either way, because ticket prices sure aren't going to change, and a team has limited room on it's 40 man roster, so even signing Lohse to a reasonable contract might be the only significant move the Sox would be able to make. As for affecting a team's ability to make future transactions while being "hamstrung" by a contract... unless it's a seriously significant amount of money (I'd say approaching 20 mil/yr), that's probably less of a problem than you'd think. Say the Sox sign Lohse for 10/yr, and he blows. His contract impact, while a pain in the rear, can be alleviated through a minor payroll increase, or by trading or not resigning players (Crede or Uribe, for example). Anyway, it's not my job to worry about the team's financial status. That's for their shareholders and accountants to do. This doesn't make sense. You're basically saying that a player's performance in relation to his salary, or his total value, is not very significant, or at least it shouldn't matter much to the fans. You justify this by saying that a bad contract can be absorbed by adding to the payroll or dumping other unnecessary contracts, but that makes no sense either. There are 25 guys on a roster. We'll have somewhere around a $100 million payroll in an age where below-average players get paid like stars and average players get paid like superstars. Value is as important now as it has ever been, if not even more so than in recent years because we're getting back to those scary 2000 type contacts that ruined so many teams. Also, if we could dump Uribe off for nothing, he'd already be gone. There's a reason no one claimed Jose Contreras off waivers last summer. It's not that KW is holding out for a good prospect; it's that no one is going to want to take on a bad contract without us paying part of it or assuming another bad contract in return. You say that as long as the players don't suck on the field, you don't care what they are paid. But I assume you also expect to have a competitive team on the field, and a large part of staying competitive is flexibility. You can't maintain flexibility when you are locked into longterm contracts with s***ty players making a lot of money.

QUOTE(103 mph screwball @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 01:09 PM) I think Jeff Liefer might have a shot to make the team IF Konerko happens to be traded. He'd be the backup 1B/corner OF. I'm not saying he's the ticket to the World Series, but if he performs well and an opportunity arises he could stick with the club. You can never say never, but those stats aren't very inspiring. He hit .252 in Japan for God's sake. I doubt he's even good enough to be labeled a AAAA player. I'm sure if Paulie's traded we can come up with a much better alternative in ST without giving up anything of value whatsoever. There are always halfway decent backups cut.

Non-players should be included here, too. I can't hate anyone who helped us win in 2005 (like Pods, Uribe), nor can I hate someone who may have had a sucky attitude but performed on the field (Belle). I can't hate someone who sucked one year but was good to great for the majority of his tenure (Marte), or someone who sucked in a season where we were going nowhere regardless (Andy Gonzalez), or someone who just plain sucked but only lasted for a relatively short period of time (like Rick White). Jaime Navarro and Terry Bevington HAVE to take the cake for me. Second to that, not in hate territory but in "you-usually-piss-me-off" territory, is Reinsdorf for not spending money on the draft since Borchard and refusing to deal with Borass clients. Third is Ozzie for his inability to focus on the game and act like a professional off the field during tough stretches, as well as his inconsistent bullpen management and reliance upon grinderball.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Jan 13, 2008 -> 12:37 PM) More like, how the hell could any White Sox fan possibly like the man? Because the guy whose name is in your handle credits Wells for much of his development as a Major League pitcher, and even spoke to him after throwing his no-no? Maybe the guy is a douche, but if he indeed helped Mark become the pitcher he is today then his tenure here was definitely a positive.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 7, 2008 -> 04:13 PM) A prospect that wouldnt crack most teams top ten is the most sure thing? Please get me some of whatever you are drinking. And how would you know that he wouldn't crack the top ten of most teams? Because some baseball writers would say so? Maybe Oakland's people think Sweeney is a sure-fire bet to have success while many of the other top prospects mentioned around baseball are big injury risks, or have no plate discipline, or are minor league overachievers, etc. Just because Sox fans like Gio and DLS more doesn't mean Oakland does. I'm sure Oakland really likes those guys, but it's entirely possible they see Sweeney as the best player in the deal.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 03:14 PM) Too many people are underrating Crede's defense. Fields should be in LF or in the minors developing 3B defensive skills. No he shouldn't. He was beyond terrible in LF last year and any GM who keeps 30-40 HR out of it's lineup looking for what could be no more than a marginal improvement on defense should fit himself for a safety helmet because that guy is f***ing retarded. Crede's great defense has spoiled many. Fields can and will get better in the field, and his bat will at least help offset some of the mistakes he makes. If our defense sucks next year I bet the biggest reason will be because of pitching staff is walking too many guys, giving up too many home runs, and our starters 3-5 aren't working enough innings, leaving our s***ty front end of the bullpen exposed. I highly doubt Josh Fields' defense is a major factor. We're longshots to win the division as it is, so we should at least head into the '08 season looking to develop some young players. Thankfully, in Richar, Quentin, and Fields we have some guys out there that are worth the chance.

I highly doubt the difference in return that we'd get for a questionable Crede now and even a healthy, productive Crede at the deadline is going to be worth setting Josh back even further. Fields can hit; it's not his fault that Crede has a bad back, and it's not the Sox's fault either. I hope Crede is healthy and has several more productive years in him, and I thank him for '05, but let's just move on. Fields has a monster bat and will only improve his defense at third by playing regularly in the Majors. I think Kenny needs to look to make a move soon just to clear up any possible confusion, because the closer it gets to ST, the greater the likelihood of Ozzie running his mouth to the papers with another hair-brained idea involving Josh in the outfield or Triple A.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 6, 2008 -> 05:56 PM) Or Gio who is one of the top 50 prospects in all of baseball, but they wanted our prospect who on most teams wouldnt crack the top ten. Makes sense. I would hope that for Oakland's sake they don't have to consult Baseball Prospectus before making any trades. Maybe they felt Sweeney was as close to a sure thing as they would get from the Sox, but wouldn't do the deal unless they could pick up a couple stud pitching prospects in addition? That sounds logical to me.

They have Fernando Hernandez too and thank God for that, because had he ever made it to the bigs with the Sox there would probably have been people out there calling him Fern-Hern or something absurd like that.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 01:38 AM) Hey, I don't really think the Angels are an ideal partner anymore, but any deal that involves Santana and one of Kendrick/Figgins is fine with me. I'd prefer Kendrick over Figgins because of age and the pure ability. The one key is whether Matthews JR would actually be considered a negative trade chip (from the Angels perspective) in the sense that the Angels would give up more just to be rid of Sarge Jr. Plus if the Sox dealt Konerko and got Matthews Jr, leadoff hitter (Willits or Figgins or Kendrick), Santana (or Saunders), and cash (depending on who the guys are the Sox got, they would possibly need cash) I would be happy. I know Matthews Jr. has a horrid contract and it is a major risk, but I think it would be worth it to get the extra pitcher and a legit top of the order bat. I would obviously ask for either Kendrick or Saunders (if I didn't get Kendrick than I'd take Santana, but if I didn't get Kendrick and instead got Willits I'd try to pry Saunders because he is further away from FA). Defensively I would like an outfield with Quentin/Matthews JR/Dye (in fact flip flop Dye and Quentin with Dye in LF and that is a damn good defensive outfield). Swisher at 1B and Figgins plays 2B. Again I'm not saying it happens but who knows, maybe the Sox deal Crede in the package as well to get rid of his contract. Again, without the Sox getting one of the Angels big money outfielders I don't see a deal going down. But I'd love it if a couple of those names came the Sox way that is for sure. I don't see any way we'd end up with Kendrick. The Angels aren't going to want to trade key pieces when they already have a pretty good team with tons of depth. Sarge Jr. is a negative trading chip. If the Angels don't think so then they are certifiably retarded. Kendrick or Saunders? Kendrick is a stud. Saunders is not; he's decent, but I don't think if you are KW you ask for Kendrick or Saunders. That would be I guess kind of similar to the Angels asking us for Fields or Floyd. Egbert through his minor league career has been better than Saunders, and we already have him. Eggy is also two years younger, and even though Saunders is a lefty, I wouldn't do Egbert for Saunders straight up. Swisher can play CF and we don't play in a huge park, so there is no reason to take Paulie's bat out of the lineup unless we get convincingly better, either at the Major League or Minor League level. A Santana+Figgins deal for Konerko would be horrible. Figgins doesn't have a position and is a FA after '09. Santana has some sick stuff, but he's coming off a terrible year and has fallen out of favor with the Angels being seemingly incapable of pitching on the road. I like Santana as a buy low candidate, but he shouldn't be the main target of a deal for Paulie. Rather, I think we should target Adenhart and ask for Santana as a second piece for throwing in Crede. Maybe that's too much, but it's not like we absolutely have to trade Paulie. Still, that deal doesn't work unless the Angels get rid of an OF or move Kotchman elsewhere. If we're going to take on Sarge's very, very bad steroid-injected contract over the next four years, for which there is no buyout BTW, we had better get something that makes it worthwhile and improves us somewhere not just in terms of this year but in terms of the next 5 or more. Otherwise, if we are determined to take on a veteran with a bad contract we could probably get Randy Winn for minimal talent and take on much less of a commitment. If we dealt Konerko and took on Sarge in the process, Adenhart is a must IMO. Kendrick is unlikely and we have Richar for 2B. Since Fields, Swisher, Quentin, and Matthews would be here longterm, Cabrera/Ramirez looks to be the plan at SS, and since AJ and Dye are both here for the next couple of years, pitching would be what we should go after. I know everyone wants a fast, base-stealing leadoff man, but I think that if we want to get a leadoff man to play 2B, we should go after Roberts in another deal because at least he can play defense. Maybe offer a package starting with Richar + Broadway or something along those lines. We don't have enough to get Bedard from the O's, but I'm sure we have enough to get Roberts without really damaging the '08 team. Anyway, without taking on GMJ I don't know how this would work unless we got Kotchman or Kotchman was sent elsewhere. To do this deal for Konerko without GMJ or Kotchman, I'd like Adenhart + a pitching prospect. If we're doing this with GMJ and still without Kotchman, I think we should throw in Crede and ask for Adenhart + Santana + O'Sullivan/Wood + another pitching prospect. That's a lot, but GMJ is a s***ty hitter, he has a ridiculously bad and almost impossible to dump contract that pays him until he's 37, and on top of all that he'd become the only known roider on the Sox team. That's a hit to the offense, a hit to the salary, a hit to longterm flexibility of the organization since due to regression, GMJ isn't going to be a CF throughout the length of his deal, and it's also a hit to the PR department which will surely be exploited in the local papers. If we're going to assume that, we had better get some prospects that can help us in the farm or that can be used to pick up another player we need. Otherwise, just keep Paulie. He's a fan favorite and will in all likelihood improve on his down year in '07. All in all, I think Crede for Willits straight up is probably the most logical trade with the Angels. Exploring another trade route with Paulie for pitching prospects would make a lot of sense too. How about Texas, Toronto, San Francisco, or even Boston?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 5, 2008 -> 01:48 AM) I don't either. I'm starting to be less and less sold on Danny Richar though and it makes me want to get a new 2nd baseman that is young (with Richar switch to a platoon role along with Ramirez and Uribe/Crede on the way out for prospects that have fallen out of love. Why? Danny improved with the bat as the year went on and has shown he can play above average defense at 2B. He has some pop and a quick bat, along with a decent eye and some speed. His approach at the plate kind of fluctuated a bit last year with the Sox, but if and when he finds a comfort zone at the plate he has all the tools necessary to be a good hitter.