Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 12:12 PM) Is there anyone listening to score that can confirm that Rogers is saying it's Joel Hanrahan now? Ooooh, I could get behind that move.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 12:08 PM) Have you actually seen Lannan? Because I just can't full believe that Richard has better stuff than him, not when Lannan has an ERA in the low 3's. Even in a pitcher's park and in the NL, that's still a damn good ERA. http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/media/...3&c_id=was# I like Richard's arm better.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 12:00 PM) I would assume Clayton Richard would have to be traded to the Nationals as part of this deal. They would clearly want an ML ready pitcher. BUt like mentioned before, why would the Nationals trade a 23-year-old lefty, who is dealing this year? Probably because Clayton has better stuff. I'd back away from this deal if they want Richard, but Broadway would be on the table, and McCulloch should always be on the table.

QUOTE (JFields27 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 10:32 PM) Floyd played those chances tonight, 93 MPH right down the middle to Morneau, and then there was a big breeze coming from his way. When Floyd has his breaking stuff working along with his change he can get away with just about anything, whereas Masset isn't lucky enough to have the kind of secondary stuff to keep hitters off his FB. I don't know how many times this year I've seen an opposing hitter K on or foul off a meatball or hanging breaking ball from Floyd.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 31, 2008 -> 12:20 AM) Rodriguez has a very nice arm that gets good sink and a real good slider. I'd consider him a legit relief prospect and I would not be surprised at all if he has a prominent role in the Sox pen in the future. I say this about very few relief prospects in our system, but Rodriguez is a legit relief prospect. Agreed, and you can't forget about Jon Link either. He's got the stuff and it appears the control as well to succeed here. Kanekoa Texeira might just be around the corner too. And then Poreda could come in and be another Matt Thornton... we do have some good RP depth, which is nothing knew about this organization. Over the years it seems as if we've developed MLB-caliber relievers about as well as anyone else. Relievers and outfielders, that's our game I guess.

I'd love to get this guy depending on the cost. If the Marlins would take a couple of former first round pitching prospects (Broadway and McCulloch) I'd do it in a heartbeat because I think Broadway's ceiling is a no.4/5 guy and we already have enough of those guys while McCulloch isn't very good at all. But I don't know if I'd want to go any higher than that, maybe add in a solid RP prospect. I guess it would all depend on what Kenny's people think of him, if they think he's going to contribute in a huge way at the MLB I'd give up anything in the minors sans Fields, but I agree that he needs a real shot. He's always had monster power. I don't think he's the next Quentin (Quentin is capable of hitting .320/40/160 one of these years), but he could be the next Troy Glaus and that would certainly be a welcome addition for the next few years. That said, I don't think you could pry Konerko out of this lineup with a crowbar.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 04:40 PM) Well reading the same article, it gave me the idea of going after Zach Greinke. It would take a bit, but I think for this team, it would be worth it. I also think he would come cheaper than Justin Duscherer. I'd love that idea too and would pay a hefty price for him, but I don't think he goes within the division if he's dealt at all. I don't know about being cheaper than Duch though, if it were me I'd be willing to offer more for Greinke than Duch.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 04:54 PM) Again, why would Texas trade their 3rd baseman with Blalock out. An .868 OPS for a "utility player" is damn good, no matter what team he plays for. Well because, if Texas feels that Masset is capable of being a solid 4th/5th starter for them that kind of price is a very small one to pay. I don't know why else Texas would be interested in him.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 04:49 PM) Do people actually think about logical scenarios before they post trade proposals? Why would the Rangers give up Vazquez, who's hitting well over .300, AND Loe for a crappy middle reliever. Not to mention that Blalock's out for the year likely, meaning that Vazquez will be playing every day. Do you think before you post? Vazquez is a 32 year old journeyman UT player who benefits from hitting in Texas. Loe is a guy with a good arm who isn't even on their MLB team because he can't seem to post an ERA under 6.00. Um, if Texas is looking at Masset there's a good chance they'd be willing to give up their equivalents of Pablo Ozuna and David Aardsma for him. Edit: if they need someone to play third I'm sure they can pick up another AAAA journeyman in the same way they got Vazquez by offering nothing other than cash considerations. Saying Texas is worried about losing him would be like saying the 2007 Sox were worried about losing their LF Rob Mackowiak.

I like Kameron Loe's arm and think he'd be a nice project for Coop. I don't know if the Sox would have any interest though, or how much the Rangers value him. I'd love a Loe + Ramon Vazquez for Masset deal though. Vazquez would give us a backup option for Crede once he comes back and can also play other IF positions, while Loe I believe throws in the low-mid nineties with some pretty sick breaking stuff.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 30, 2008 -> 03:52 PM) All of our problems in trying to upgrade the talent on the ML club at the deadline is from a terrible farm system. Our organization's cheapness for draft signings (minus Borchard which turned out to bomb) and internationally has made our system incredibly weak. Even with the trades we have made recently, you would think that our system would still have player, but really no. Injuries and struggles affecting Jose Martinez and John Shelby have hurt us. Had those guys been healthy and raking it might be a totally different situation right now, but then would we want to trade one of them?

I don't even want the Sox to give up Fields for Roberts, much less Floyd. If we need anything right now it is pitching. The team lacks balance and one ultra expensive addition in Roberts isn't going to suddenly turn us into a team capable of manufacturing runs and handling the bats better situationally. If the Sox can get Duchscherer I'd be tempted to give up Fields right now along with whatever else that has to go from within the system because that move would help us a lot. If the best SP out there is Duch, then I wouldn't give up any of our top prospects for anyone else. It's just a waste. Let's not forget how s***ty this team looked on paper earlier on this year. We've been incredibly fortunate to have Danks, Floyd, Quentin, and Ramirez all begin to look like young stars from out of nowhere. The development of those four players alone have easily shaved an entire year, maybe even more, off of what looked to be a long rebuilding process towards a new core. Giving up what little we have left now - after Fields hit 23 bombs in not even a full season just last year - for a marginal upgrade in the bullpen or at 2B in Roberts would only set us back. If Roberts was young and pre-arb, hell yes I'd make that deal, but he's not, so forget it.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 29, 2008 -> 05:16 PM) HUh? This is his second full season, last season he had an OBP of .372 and almost a .900 OPS. He has gotten on base all through his career. If .337 in his career is getting on base, I've got different expectations from major league first baseman. Kotchman's numbers last year were Scott Hatteberg-like. Brett Lawrie David Cooper Isaac Davis Andrew Cashner Joshua Fields Ryan Perry David Havens Allan Dykstra Anthony Hewitt Christian Friedrich Daniel Schlereth Carlos Gutierrez Gerrit Cole Lonnie Chisenhall Casey Kelly Steven Hunt Jacob Odorizzi Bradley Holt Zachary Collier Michael Montgomery Connor Gillaspie Jordan Lyles Michael Lynn Brett DeVall Ryan Flaherty Jeff Decker Wade Miley Jeremy Bleich Bryan Price Jon Forsythe Kyle Lobstein Tanner Scheppers Johnny Giavotella Xavier Avery Anthony Gose Brad Hand Seth Lintz Cutter Dykstra Destin Hood Joseph Austin Robert Ross Shane Peterson Tyler Ladendorf These are the players taken in this years draft, first round, 16-60. Pick any two of those guys and that's the type of players Atlanta gave up for Casey Kotchman. This is the same area of the first round where in '06 the Yanks got Chamberlain and Kennedy and in '05 players like Ellsbury, Garza, Rasmus, Buccholz, Jed Lowrie, and Bowden among others were selected. Casey isn't worth the potential offered there IMO.

I have no idea why anyone likes Kotchman. He doesn't get on base, he doesn't hit for power, through his career he hasn't even hit above .300, and he's 25. How much better is this guy going to get? With the picks you know you've got a shot at 2 guys with star potential who you can then trade if you have to for someone who actually doesn't suck. Brain-dead move for the Braves.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 29, 2008 -> 04:18 PM) Swish and Uribe have nothing in common other than a low batting average. In every other way, career-wise and this year, they are just not remotely comparable. This year Swisher has been like Uribe of the last two seasons he spent as a starter. I figured it would be pretty obvious I wasn't including Swisher's career year in Oakland. K's, s***ty BA, slightly above average power for their positions.... aside from higher OBP for Swish and Uribe's defense beating the hell out of Swishers at his position, there is no difference.

QUOTE (Maxwell @ Jul 29, 2008 -> 03:21 PM) He isn't basically Juan Uribe. If he was, you'd love him for buying you dinner. Swisher has a much better OBP but Juan also can play GG-level defense at a premium position. Swish is mediocre at best in CF, and we play in a small ballpark. I'd hate to see what he'd look like everyday in a large OF. So overall, I don't think it's a stretch at all to say Swisher has been basically Uribe. Swish has sucked, there's no other way around it.

QUOTE (Elgin Slim @ Jul 29, 2008 -> 12:00 PM) Does anyone know what the news was on Nevin Griffith's injured elbow? I haven't seen him listed as starting for GF. I'd like to know because he could be a good one. An update on Jose Martinez would be nice too if anyone has any details.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 29, 2008 -> 12:02 PM) Swisher has easily been the biggest disappointment on this team in my mind. He's been garbage for 3/4 of the year and when he has hit well it's really only been at home. He needs to get his f***ing ass out of his head because his crazy, loose, zany clubhouse guy routine is just annoying when he's not producing. Completely agree. I wonder what else we could have gotten with a Gio-DLS-Sweeney package last offseason. I mean even if we don't make any moves and put Sweeney out in CF we have a better player. Swisher was the big acquisition of the offseason and he's been horrific. I don't give a s*** about his attitude either. He seems like a great guy, but if we wanted a great guy who couldn't hit we might as well have brought back Grinderstad. Edit: I have to say though, at the time of the deal I was mostly in favor of it. I didn't like the idea of trading our two top pitching prospects, both with high ceilings, without getting a better SP back. But, I thought Swish moving to the Cell away from all that foul territory and also getting protection in the lineup was going to really help him a ton and he would reach new heights as a player. Hopefully that's still in the cards, but up to this point he's been a massive disappointment.

Ohh, I think she even looks hotter now. I love a woman with a strong base.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 28, 2008 -> 03:03 PM) Aj has a better fastball, better curve, not nearly as good of a change. AJ's 2-seamer is better than Javy's as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2008 -> 02:45 PM) A 4.76 ERA this season seems to indicate he isn't on most nights. Look at his game log: http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player...&statType=2 He seems to be either excellent or horrible. He's the ultimate example of a high risk/high reward pitcher, but if the Sox can get an arm like this as cheaply as this, I don't know how they could pass it up. Maybe he's not excellent most nights, but the Sox don't make the playoffs most years, and most young starters don't end up pitching this much and still have enough to keep it up in the playoffs. It's just my opinion, but in a big game I'd rather have a guy like Burnett that I know has a real shot at completely dominating a lineup than a guy like Javy who I pretty much know is going to go 7 and give up 4-5 runs. With the Sox farm system where it is and considering the caliber of players that are on the market, they aren't in a position to pick and choose which aces they want to get. It's either Duch who has been a reliever his whole career and could never come close to this level of play again and will cost Josh Fields, Burnett who has been inconsistent but costs less, someone else who is mediocre all the time, or nothing. Another thing to note is that by adding another starter, Contreras can move to the pen where he should be more refreshed and gain velocity. This would allow him to take some innings from Danks and Gavin, who need to be watched carefully as the last thing we need is one of them to get hurt. Bringing in another guy also allows the Sox the chance to "piggy-back" Floyd and Danks if they wanted to, with either Contreras or someone else stepping into the rotation. 4IP per start each and then end with a reliever would save them some good work. Anyway, it's more than just looking at ERA.

Anyone who would have any reservations whatsoever about this deal should watch this: http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/media/vide...90&c_id=tor ^That's the kind of arm we'd be getting. Obviously you never know what can happen, and we might get AJ just to have his arm fall off two days later, but assuming we picked him up and made it to the playoffs, this is a guy that is capable of shutting any team down on any given night and out-pitching the best there is. His arm is just that freaking good when he's on.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2008 -> 02:26 PM) Amazing how many people think this would be a great deal for the White Sox. The guy still would have to be paid a lot this year which to us is nothing, but, this year, his ERA and WHIP are higher than Jose Contreras. Soxtalk wanted to replace Contreras with Burnett in 2005, and thank God KW didn't agree. Look at his home/road splits. That turf can't be helping him any. AJ isn't throwing the ball in the mid to high 80's, so throwing out the ERA and WHIP, he's already a better option than Contreras has been lately.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 28, 2008 -> 02:19 PM) Shes put on a few lbs in recent pics. Haven't seen those, but as long as they go in the right places it's all good.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 28, 2008 -> 01:36 PM) You're assuming Burnett ranks as a Type A free agent. He rated out at 71.528 B for '06-'07 which was 4 points short of Type A status. Aside from innings AJ's 2008 season is much worse than his 2006 season thus far. It's not where near a foregone conclusion that ranks as a Type A free agent. Can you even offer Arb to a player who opts out of his deal? Firstly, where did you find that ratings system? Is it accurate? I'd love to see it. Secondly, even as a Type B, if you figure you're getting a supplemental first on top of Burnett, that's still a total steal. Especially if you spend a little bit of money on those picks. I'm sure you can find and sign a guy with a higher ceiling than Egbert with that pick, so you can basically look at it as Allen for Burnett, and when you imagine how much that addition would mean in terms of adding insurance to the rotation and the bullpen through a trickle-down effect, that is more than worth it IMO. I'd love this deal, but I'd be very, very, very surprised if there's any truth to it at all as it sounds way too good to be true. I'd expect the Jays to at the very least ask for something like Shelby + Poreda given what everyone else is asking for their players.