Kenny Hates Prospects

Before the Sox traded him I'd seen a comparison to Ryan Howard on another prospect site. As long as Quentin gets healthy and stays healthy it's a great trade for all involved even if Carter comes out like that. I'd put Ryan Howard, Carlos Quentin, and Dan Haren all in the same category as elite players.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Oct 19, 2008 -> 12:16 PM) Just looking through the rosters we don't have many players in mexican or dominican leagues. So far I've seen Jason Childers in the mexican league, Franklyn German, Santo Luis, and Francisco Hernandez in Dominican league. That's all i've seen so far, nobody to really get excited about. Santo Luis is an interesting guy the Sox took in the minor league phase of the Rule-5 draft last year. I'm pretty sure I read he can hit the triple digits with his fastball, and this last season, even though he was 24 and repeating A ball, he cut his walk rate down to 2.8/9 and consequently did a much better job keeping the ball in the park. Again, he's 24 in A ball, but 133K in 90IP is pretty impressive regardless. Hopefully he can be a diamond in the rough and not suck like Dewon Day did.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 14, 2008 -> 07:25 PM) This whole thing about race isn't quite as annoying as the NBA, where Steve Nash is "heady/gritty" and black players are "lightning quick" or can jump out the gym, etc. Although "grinders" are USUALLY white players, eg., Erstad/Miles/Eckstein/Getz, etc. Grady Sizemore is probably the best all-around 5 tool athlete in baseball. Larry Walker was an outstanding athlete. Shawn Green in his prime. Dale Murphy Howard Johnson Dante Bichette Jeff Bagwell David Wright Timo Perez, Pablo Ozuna, Wilson Valdez, Paco Martin, Christian Guzman, Carlos Gomez, Ramon Vasquez and the tons of other players like them all stand up and say hello. There are just as many latin grinders as white grinders. There aren't many black or asian grinders simply because there's not many black or asian players in baseball comparatively. Willie Harris has improved enough to be labeled a grinder. He's actually a pretty useful bench player now. And Tadahito Iguchi regressed enough to where you'd call him a grinder. I still think Tadahito is valuable to someone off the bench, he probably just didn't feel comfortable in PetCo. He had a great second half with the Phillies spelling Utley last year. So, there are a couple at least.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Oct 14, 2008 -> 04:22 PM) Billy Beane, Brian Anderson, Joe Borchard, Josh Hamilton, Alex Gordon, Rocco Baldelli, Evan Longoria, Jay Bruce, Nick Markakis, Rick Ankiel, Joe Mauer, Grady Sizemore, Ian Stewart, J.R. Towles, and many more. It may not seem like it, but it's a fairly even line. I don't think race really factors into it. OT, but I love Nick Markakis. He is every single thing that the most optimistic Ryan Sweeney lovers thought Ryan Sweeney could be, and he is without a doubt one of the most underrated players in baseball. This guy never gets discussed (of course he plays for the Orioles). He missed 100 walks this year by just one.

QUOTE (Cubano @ Oct 14, 2008 -> 03:50 PM) There are honeys every where. I am not a free agent anymore so I only look now. The first thing I learned in America was that after you married, it is cheaper to keep the wife than divorce her unless you want to live in a basement for the rest of you life. LOL Thanks for the life tips, Cubano.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 06:05 AM) Your first paragraph is true. Your second is ridiculous and hypocritical. Talk about overvaluing a White Sox player..... What is hypocritical? If Swisher put up the numbers here that he did in Oakland in 2006 would you make him available for anything less than an elite player? I never said he'd bring in any of those players, just that the conversation doesn't get going unless a better player is the subject.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 12:31 AM) Again, I'll state this little idea since nobody seems to answer it: If getting Swish is such a great idea for other teams (coming into his prime, versitle, cheap, etc) WHY THE HELL WOULD THE WHITE SOX GET RID OF HIM? If there is apparently a ton of interest in other teams in a guy like that, why f*** would the Sox not also be interested? Think about that stupid argument i've seen numerous times now, it makes no sense. The Sox don't need Swisher next year. He's the 3rd best hitting OF and he's not very good in CF. He's the 2nd best hitting first baseman, and he doesn't have the bat to DH. If another team came along that needed an OF or 1B and didn't have the depth the Sox have, and that team was willing to give up another high ceiling player approaching his prime, and the player offered made for a better fit on this team, then that would be a great deal for the Sox. Right now Swish is basically a 4th OF with the upside of an All-Star and he's on a cheap contract. If he could net say a pitcher who is now a 5th starter but has the upside of a #2 and also is on a cheap contract then that would help the Sox. If the Sox feel that there is a pitcher out there who has just as much of a chance at reaching his ceiling as Swisher does at rebounding to his career year in Oakland then what is wrong with that deal? If it was 2006 and the Sox traded Nick Swisher for Gio Gonzalez and Gavin Floyd I am sure you'd b**** about selling low on a player that might do something great again one day, but then you'd be proven wrong, and Kenny would be proven right. That's the type of deal I think the Sox should look into if offered. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 12:31 AM) What does make sense is to trade an aging outfielder who had a great year while his value is the highest it will ever be, not trading a young outfielder coming off a down year. JD lost about 80mph on his swing near the end of the year, and if people think he's gonna replicate this season for 2 years you're nuts. JD has been one of the better run producers in baseball since 2005 with the only exception being the first half of '07. He'll be 35 and 36 over the next two years and he has the ability to DH or move to 1B if he loses too much ability to play LF. I'm nuts for thinking JD can keep it up over his age 35 and age 36 seasons? Fine, whatever. JD became a different hitter since coming here, and I think your comment about JD losing 80mph on his swing is stuff you've pulled right out of your ass. He had a powerless September and then went on to hit .375/.412/.625 in the playoffs. As far as trading Dye, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I also wouldn't deal him specifically to open up a spot for Swisher, who is a career .244/.354/.451 hitter. I'd deal Dye if it made the team better, but Dye has been the most consistent run producer on this team since 2005 and Quentin hasn't had a fully healthy year since the minor leagues. Dealing your safest bet for a good, healthy, productive season could cause problems throughout the lineup. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 12:31 AM) Thome isn't going anywhere, PK isn't going anywhere. That leaves the older max-valued Dye and younger min-valued Swish. So if you're argument is "Well Swish has awesome value" then again, why the f*** would we get rid of a guy with that much upside? When did I say Swish has awesome value? You're putting words in my mouth. I said because of his age and contract he should have the 1st or 2nd most value out of the four sluggers. No one on this teams sans about 5 obvious guys has what you could call "awesome value." How much Swisher's value is I don't know, it depends on what is out there. The whole point is that Swisher has had one year where he has reached his upside and has regressed since then. If there is a team out there that offers a player the Sox feel is either a) as likely as Swish to reach his upside or b ) more likely than Swish to reach his upside, and if that player fills a larger need, then a deal makes sense. You seriously need to let go of this "don't trade players who have upside but haven't shown consistency because one day they might and you'll be sorry" type of thinking because nothing is guaranteed. From the way Swisher swung the bat pretty much all year long, he looks like a headcase. Josh Fields has a ton of upside, and he's flashed that too. Should we hold on to him no matter what? I'm not talking about dealing Swisher for garbage. I'm talking about trading Nick Swisher's potential for someone else with as much potential who fills another need. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Oct 10, 2008 -> 12:31 AM) And I'm sorry, I love Swish and all, but even if he hits that "ceiling" you're not getting Roy f***ing Holliday or Peavy for him. Again, putting words in my mouth. I said Swisher wouldn't be available for anything less than an elite player if he hit his ceiling. That doesn't mean another team actually does the deal. It just means that if you have a 29 year old versatile player on a cheap contract who is hitting close to 40 HR, driving in close to 100 runs, and he's getting on base at a .370 plus clip, then you don't make him available for anything less than an elite player.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 10:23 PM) Well, I figured all that. I just wasn't sure who had the better farm. Too bad there's no way KC would trade DeJesus to us. Aside from swapping nobody pitchers for nobody prospects like the Horacio Ramirez deal, I believe Kenny and Dayton are done dealing with each other. The Royals are on the rise and ownership has stated they will be spending some money over the offseason. I expect them to very active and I expect them to have a much better team next year. Even though it doesn't seem like it, the Royals took a big step this year. They finished 4th, ahead of the Tigers of all teams.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 09:52 PM) OFFSEASON FREE AGENCY: -Offer Orland Cabrera arbitration (99.9% chance he walks and signs somewhere else-gains us 2 draft picks) -Offer Ken Griffey Jr. arbitration (very good chance he walks-gains us 1-2 draft picks if so) -Let Joe Crede go -Buyout Toby Hall's team option -Offer Juan Uribe arbitration (could go either way with him, as along as he is only a backup. If he wants to try and go somewhere else to get more PT or something, oh well) ---------- -Sign 2B Orlando Hudson to a 3 year, 25 million dollar contract (roughly 8 million per year), with an option for a 4th year at 9 million. -Sign RHSP Pedro Martinez to a 1 year, 4 million dollar contract with incentives/bonuses that could double his salary. Includes a team option for 2010. -I also wouldn't mind signing one of those young cuban prospects and throwing them into the farm system for a couple years, most preferably Noel Arguellez. TRADES: -Trade for C Gerald Laird. The Rangers have Ramirez, Teagarden, and Salty, there isn't a chance they don't trade Laird. Laird is a very good defensive catcher who can throw out runners with ease (espically compared to Pierzynski). Plus, he provides a pretty decent bat. He would provide us with a great platoon option at catcher. The Rangers would want pitching in return, but not sure who exactly. We could probably get him for Jack Egbert, or some sort of combination of our mediocre pitching prospects and struggling relief pitchers. I tend to think that Egbert would get it done as he should be intriguing to the Rangers due to his sinker and his low HR numbers. -Trade for 3B Chone Figgins. Not sure what exactly it would cost to get him, or what the Angels would want, but I would offer Josh Fields for him and go from there. Figgins is very expandable for the Angels as they have a jammed OF and Kendrick at 2B, as well as some other options at 3B including Wood. I think Fields would/could get it done. LINEUP: 1. Figgins, 3B 2. Hudson, 2B 3. Quentin, LF 4. Konerko, 1B 5. Thome, DH 6. Dye, RF 7. Ramirez, SS 8. Pierzynski, C 9. Anderson, CF *Swisher platoons with Anderson in CF, acts as the 4th OF, and backup 1B. He should still get plenty of PA's in this role. BENCH: C, Laird (platoons with Pierzynski) INF, Getz UTL, Bourgeois (he and Getz also act as primary pinch runners) OF/1B, Swisher ROTATION: 1. Buehrle 2. Floyd 3. Danks 4. Vazquez 5. Martinez BULLPEN: CL: Jenks SU: Thornton SU: Linebrink (if finally healthy) MRP/SU: Dotel MRP/LRP: Carrasco MRP: Macdougal (if he has his head on straight) LRP: Richard FINAL THOUGHTS: I feel if KW did this, we would have a pretty damn solid team going into 09. We'd have a much more sound team with more speed and better D. I am no BA fan, but he has improved his bat and provides ++D out there. He is likely our best option out there. I really like the idea of bringing in Laird to be a platoon option with Pierzynski, and I think it would be really smart to have him be the main catcher for one of Danks or Floyd because his D will help their development, IMO. Pitching wise, our rotation stays pretty much the same. We bring in Martinez and hope he has a similar impact that El Duque had in 05. Martinez might not be the same pitcher he used to be, but he is still a pitcher. Odds are that he will likely fade come the second half, but hopefully by then either Poreda will be ready, or one of our other pitching prospects, such as Broadway, steps it up. What are your thoughts? If the Sox offer Griffey arbitration there is no way he walks. The lowest he'll be able to get in arbitration has to be something like $12 million, and there's no way he passes that money up at this stage of his career, especially to remain with a contender. The chance of the Sox offering Griffey arb is exactly 0%. No point in signing Pedro. Just a waste of money. Jose Contreras could be back midseason, so we only definitely need a starter for half of a season. I don't believe Richard can handle that, but I'd bring in Freddy Garcia if we could to add some depth. Pedro hasn't been healthy enough to be worthy of anything. Ideally, I'd like to see the Sox trade Javy, pick up two young pitchers with high ceilings somewhere in a trade, one from a Javy deal and one from another if necessary, then use the cash saved on Javy to sign Freddy Garcia and Juan Cruz. That way you have two young guys battling for one spot in the rotation with Freddy taking the other, and if Freddy goes down you have a better option than Clayton Richard, who should be used as a lefty specialist and long reliever. Assuming all these guys stay healthy, if Contreras comes back midseason you have 2 young pitchers and 2 veterans for 2 rotation slots, and that would be a great problem to have, especially if someone in the bullpen is failing miserably. The idea of trading Fields for Figgins I could get behind. Ideally I'd like more for Fields by including him in a package, but Figgins fills a need now. I don't think that deal is realistic though. Realistically I think Oakland, Texas, Seattle, Houston, Philly, St. Louis, Baltimore, and Toronto are better fits for Fields, with Baltimore, Seattle, and Oakland being the absolute best fits. Baltimore has Roberts, Seattle has Beltre, and Oakland has pitching. I have no problem dealing Fields for Beltre, Roberts, or any other Type A free agent that will likely decline arbitration. I'll take the draft picks and one year of a much better player.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 05:36 PM) In looking at MLB trade rumors for the A's, they said the A's will be looking for power this offseason. Would they want Dye or Konerko? Get Duchscherer and Huston Street? http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/09/as-to-seek-more.html Ryan Sweeney and Aaron Cunningham are veritable locks for the A's OF. Barton should start at 1B and Gonzalez in CF, but I guess those things could change. I think the A's will give those two every opportunity to start however. Cust will be the DH, so there's really no room IMO for a veteran that will definitely start over one of their young guys. Oakland will probably look fro another cheap one year power option like they did with Frank Thomas and Mike Sweeney this year. If we want Duch or Street, Fields might be a great place to start. They have that Hanrahan guy or whatever that they got from the Tigers pencilled in, and he sucks. If the Sox sign a 2B, Oakland should be interested in Getz if Cardenas isn't ready. Getz seems like a Billy Beane type of player. Then there's Boone Logan, who could interest them. Beane loves to buy low on relievers with big arms. Getz + Fields + Logan I think might get us one of those guys, but that deal could easily backfire on us. If the Sox try to trade a package like that I'd like to see them first target someone with a better track record of both performance and health.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 06:40 PM) The Sox will trade Javy because he's a pussy. And they can be cheap all they want but they don't have s*** out there that can play CF and produce offensively and I'm sick and tired of seeing absolute s*** production in CF. They need to get an average hitter, yes, an actual guy that can hit for an average (novel concept I know) and they don't have anyone in house who can do that with the exception of Ramirez. Thats why DeJesus makes a ton of sense. I'd give up Poreda for DeJesus. He's perfectly fine in CF too, imo. I agree, I like DeJesus too. He's not a blazing speed guy, but he hits for average, walks, and is clutch. He's just a smart hitter, plain and simple, and because of his production, even though he doesn't hit for a lot of power you can still move him to LF in the future, with Carlos moving to RF if you want a better CF. We do need speed on this team, and we need to be able to manufacture runs, but that's not the only thing missing from this lineup. We also need some guys who will hit the f***ing ball when they are supposed to hit the f***ing ball.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 12:20 AM) Not really, people don't want to dump Swish for a s***ty A ball pitcher after his worst year ever. Dye is old and had a good year and we may be able to get decent value from him. Why in the world would you think Swisher's value is a s***ty A ball pitcher? This is yet another case of Sox fans way overvaluing or undervaluing their own players. Think about it this way: if Swisher comes here and does what he did that one year in Oakland, and he performs to his ceiling, Swisher isn't available for anything less than the superstars on the market, like possibly Roy Halladay, Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard, and Jake Peavy. Swisher had a down year in 2007 - and "selling low" on Swisher netted Billy Beane Gio, DLS, and Sweeney. I don't know why people think Beane sold high on Swish, he didn't sell high at all. Swisher seriously regressed from the previous year, and had he not regressed he would've cost much more than the Sox could have offered. Let's say you are a GM. There is a guy like Swish available who is still coming into his prime, is versatile, and on a cheap contract for the next few seasons. Players like this don't usually become available. If you offer nothing but garbage then you're not getting that player. There are teams out there with young players who haven't set the world on fire that the Sox like. If a deal could be made that swaps out one underachieving player with a star ceiling for another, and that deal addresses other needs and in turn makes the club as a whole better, why wouldn't you consider it? Because Swisher's value is low? That's stupid. You guys make all these comments about not wanting GM's who will sell low on a player, but every GM is forced to sell low on players. If Swish comes back next year and has a season just like 2008 people all over this board will be b****ing about KW acquiring a s***ty player and waiting too long to deal him. Kenny isn't going to give up Swish for scraps if he trades him at all, and no GM out there is going to actually think he can pick up Swisher for some s***ty A-ball pitcher. If the Giants on the other hand offer a deal centered around Fred Lewis, who would give us a lead-off hitter and fill CF, or the Yankees offered Melky Cabrera and a prospect, or the Rays offered a young pitcher, etc. why wouldn't you consider it? Out of the four players mentioned, Swish/Dye/Paulie/Thome, Swisher might have the most value of the group. He at the very least has the 2nd most value of the group and there's no reason to think that just because he had a bad year no other team would offer anything of value for him.

QUOTE (scenario @ Oct 9, 2008 -> 10:45 AM) I think the players will be influenced by the agent... who happens to have a great relationship with the Sox. And I think they will be highly influenced by Alexei's situation.... the fact the Sox gave him a chance to play at the major league level right away. Add in that the Sox already have Cuban players on the team to help ease the new guys transition. I think it adds up to us being a serious contender for these guys. I think the Sox make a serious run at Viciedo. The best guys available in trade for 3B - Beltre and Figgins - are one year commitments. Fields, if he gets a shot, is probably only going to have one season to prove himself, and if he can't prove himself in '09 he's done. By signing Viciedo it adds competition in ST and also gives the Sox a possible longterm option ready for 2010. Considering Viciedo's agent and all the Cubans the Sox have added since 2004, plus the presence of a Spanish-speaking manager, the fit here is just too perfect.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 07:53 PM) Not only that, but out of those 4, Dye/Thome/Konerko ALL in their mid to upper 30's. Swish is what? 27? 28? Why on EARTH would you trade him over unloading one of those other base cloggers? (i'm specifically looking at you Jim) Because one of these guys have to be traded and Swisher is the only one who can't block a trade. It's not really that complicated. Thome would be the guy I'd want to dump too, but he'll only go to the Indians or Cubs. Cubs don't need him and we're not dealing with the Indians, so Thome is here no matter what. Paulie might go to the West Coast, but only if he feels like it. He doesn't have to go anywhere.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Oct 8, 2008 -> 07:52 PM) Not usually smart to try and trade a player at his lowest value ever ever. Three of the four guys mentioned above are at their lowest values ever. Dye could go, but he'd have to agree to a trade, and we'd be trading our only reliable run producer. Even Quentin is a relative uncertainty given his injury history.

One of Dye/Konerko/Swisher/Thome is going to have to go if we want a CF, and Swisher might be the easiest player of the group to trade considering his age, his contract length and affordability, and the fact that he's the only one of the four without some sort of trade protection. Thome has a full NTC, Paulie has the right to bock any trade as he is a 10-5 player, and Dye I believe has at least a partial NTC. Looking around baseball, these are the teams I can think of that could be interested in Swisher for either 1B or the outfield. Which of these teams are the best fits for a possible Swisher deal? Anyone we should target? Angels - if Tex leaves Seattle - holes all over the place Texas - Davis could move to 3rd, will probably have an OF opening Rays - will have an OF opening Orioles - might want to upgrade and get younger at 1B over Millar Yankees - no real 1B, will have OF opening Blue Jays - upgrade over Overbay? Giants - tons of holes Rockies - could have another OF hole if Holliday is traded, already have hole in CF, Fowler is close Padres - cutting payroll but Swish would be affordable Cubs - sounds odd, but Swish could add depth in CF and RF Brewers - will need a 1B if they trade Prince Pirates - might trade Adam LaRoche Phillies - Burrell could walk Mets - OF depth and platoon option for Delgado if he falls off again

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 09:31 PM) STARTING PITCHERS 1. CC Sabathia 29 2. Ben Sheets 31 3. Ryan Dempster 32 4. Jon Garland 29 5. Kyle Lohse 30 - RE-SIGNED w/ CARDINALS on 9/30/08 [4 year, $41M] [bORAS CLIENT] 6. AJ Burnett 32 CAN OPT OUT OF CONTRACT 7. Brad Penny 31 TO: $9.25M 8. Mike Mussina 40 9. Derek Lowe 36 [bORAS CLIENT] 10. Pedro Martinez 37 11. Oliver Perez 27 [bORAS CLIENT] 12. Odalis Perez 32 13. Randy Wolf 32 14. Paul Byrd 38 15. Livan Hernandez 34 16. Braden Looper 34 17. Randy Johnson 45 18. Greg Maddux 43 [bORAS CLIENT] 19. Brian Moehler 37 - RE-SIGNED w/ ASTROS on 8/29/08 [1 year, $2.3M] 20. Jason Jennings 31 21. John Smoltz 42 TO: $12M 22. Chan Ho Park 36 23. Kip Wells 32 24. Jamie Moyer 46 25. Andy Pettitte 37 26. Brian Lawrence 33 27. Mark Mulder 31 TO: $11M 28. Woody Williams 42 TO: $6.5M 29. Matt Clement 34 TO: $8.75M 30. Mark Prior 28 OTHERS: K. Benson, S. Chacon, B. Colon, C. Pavano, J. Sosa, M. Morris, Ma. Redman, C. Schilling, J. Fogg, B. Tomko S. Trachsel, T. Wakefield, J. Affeldt, S. Estes, T. Glavine, M. Hampton, M. Hendrickson, G. Rusch, K. Rogers Lot of potential 5 starters in there. How many of these guys would you want on your team though? These are the guys I'd start over Clayton Richard (adding Freddy Garcia to the list): CC Sabathia Ben Sheets Ryan Dempster Jon Garland AJ Burnett Mike Mussina Derek Lowe Pedro Martinez Oliver Perez Odalis Perez Paul Byrd Braden Looper Randy Johnson John Smoltz Jamie Moyer Andy Pettitte - roider Freddy Garcia These are the guys I'd want on my team: CC Sabathia - Sox will never give that kind of contract to any pitcher Ben Sheets - Sox will never give that kind of contract to an injury-prone pitcher Ryan Dempster - Sox will never give that much money to a #3 starter coming off a career year Jon Garland - Sox admitted they felt his ceiling has been reached, is basically a #4, Sox will never give a #4 $12 million+ AJ Burnett - See Ben Sheets Mike Mussina - Said he'll play for the Yankees or retire Derek Lowe - Boras is his agent John Smoltz - Would he leave ATL to go to a hitters park in the AL? For how much money? No chance on this guy. Freddy Garcia These are the realistic targets that I'd want on my team: Freddy Garcia

QUOTE (DaGame2584 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 09:23 PM) I am assuming your wanting a Garcia type deal. Well I don't see too many teams doing that. If AJ Burnett gets $15 million plus over 4 years or more, you'll see a lot of teams willing to give up their Gio and Gavin type pitchers for Javy and his $11 million/season deal. Javy will command more than the Garcia deal, but I'm sure Kenny has his targets, we just don't know who they are. Kenny has his pitchers that he thinks he can develop into top-end starters, and if one of those guys is made available for Javy I think he'll pull the trigger. I can't say or guess on who because after 2006 I would have never said to go after Gavin Floyd.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 09:16 PM) You know he included "Adenhart", a pitcher in what he wrote, correct? Yes but we need two pitchers if we trade Javy. Richard = not a major league starting pitcher.

QUOTE (DaGame2584 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 09:14 PM) Well how do you see us getting Figgins? I wouldn't want to do that deal either. I would prefer if it was PK going not JD. I agree w/ you on Richard but do we have a better option(Egbert, Broadway)? If you go the FA to fix the spot Javy leaves who do you get? Lowe(Too much money)? Garland(Too much money & years)? I think we should stay far, far away from the top pitchers on the FA market. I'd like Freddy Garcia back on a short-term deal filled with incentives, but I'd like to have two solid options (assuming we deal Javy) for the 4th and 5th spots before that. That way we have some deal and an injury to Freddy or a young guy failing doesn't cripple us. As far as getting Figgins, I have no idea, but I think it'll be prospects. The Angels are known for their scouting, so perhaps there are some guys in our system that don't get talked up as much as Poreda but are coveted by the Angels. Figgins isn't going to command an elite prospect, just some good ones, and we do have some good ones. Basically, we need a lead-off hitter badly, but Figgins isn't our only option. He and Roberts are the best options, but there's Furcal out there and maybe even Ichiro will be out there. Who knows? There are definitely options, but bottom line I would NOT make a horrible deal just to get a lead-off guy. If the Angels wanted Dye straight up I'd tell them to f*** off and enjoy Brandon Wood since they love to overvalue their players. If there's nothing out there that makes sense, then so be it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 09:12 PM) Dye for Figgins is freakishly similar to Lee for Pods Even though it worked out great, that Lee for Pods+Vizcaino deal was still a rip-off. Kenny should've picked up a prospect there.

QUOTE (DaGame2584 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 09:02 PM) What if the Sox did the Brewers trade and the flipped JD for Figgins & Ardenhart for LAA? I still don't like that deal. I'd like the Angels deal but with Javy we should target pitching. Even though Javy has kicked the genitalia of every Sox fan out there, let's not forget he's still a #3 starter capable of pitching in the AL and in the Cell. He's very valuable to this team over a 162 game season, if not in the playoffs, so we'll need to pick some guys up that we'll be able to count on to replace that next year and going forward.

QUOTE (DaGame2584 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:43 PM) Here's mine.... 3B-Figgins(Dye traded to fill their DH spot) SS-Hardy(traded for Vazquez)(I like this idea) RF-Quentin DH-Thome 1B-Konerko 2B-Ramirez LF-Swisher C-Pierzynski CF-Gwynn(Part of the Vazquez trade) SP-Buehrle SP-Floyd SP-Danks SP-Penny SP-Richard CP-Jenks RP-Thornton RP-McClung RP-Linebrink RP-Rhodes(FA Signing) LRP-Carrascco Penny is a flyball pitcher with an ERA over 6 in a hitters park in the National League. He's got a cheap option yet the Dodgers will decline it, and he sounds like a real asshole to boot. Richard IMO doesn't have the stuff to get through the lineup 3 times. His job should be what Horacio Ramirez's job was supposed to be: long relief and lefty match-ups. If the Sox traded Dye for Figgins straight up I'd find where Kenny lives and pelt his house with bags of my own s***. Figgins is very good, and I want him, but if that deal goes down we'd better be getting something else. Since 2005 JD has been one of the better run producers in the league, he's on a below-market deal for 2 more seasons, and he carries no baggage.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:21 PM) JJ Hardy was a name that was brought up that does make a lot of sense. A deal like that would kill this team. We don't need Hardy for his offense or his defense, and if we trade pitching, we'll need even more pitching than we already need right now (unless you buy Richard as a starter, I don't). Deal Javy to the Mets, Phils, or Braves. He'll only accept deals to teams closer to his home, and Kenny will want him in the NL, so those teams make the most sense. Depending on what they do, even the Nats or Orioles could be a darkhorse. The target should be near-ready prospects and underachieving pre-arb players with high ceilings. I expect to see a Freddy Garcia type of trade made, except this time the return will look better on paper at the time it's made. I wouldn't be opposed to dealing Dye to someone for pitching as well. I want Tampa Bay in the picture if we're dealing him because I want their pitching prospects, at least a couple of them. I have a feeling the Yankees would be in on JD if he's made available. Who knows who else would have interest and the pieces to make a deal, but there are a lot of teams out there thinking they'll be contenders in '09.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Oct 6, 2008 -> 08:22 PM) How about: Roberts Swisher Quentin Dye Thome Konerko Beltre Pierzynski Ramirez How about: Getz Swisher Markakis Mora Jones Scott Huff Hernandez Castro ...for the Orioles