Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 11:00 PM) Seriously? Source? This organization is a joke. I TRULY feel that most members of this board could GM/manage better. I'm not even f***ing joking. I don't know about that. Kenny has made some great moves and without Floyd, Danks, Ramirez, and Quentin we'd have never gotten this far to begin with. The only bad move this year has been Swisher, but I guess there's still hope there. I'm 100% certain that as pissed off as all of us are right now, Kenny is at least as pissed if not more so. In fact, I doubt there's a table within a 50 mile radius of Kenny Williams that has not been flipped over. The next step is obvious to all and I think Kenny knows it too. He knows we need to balance this lineup and get some of these sluggers out of here. He knows we need to be able to manufacture runs, and he knows we need to play defense. I'm definitely willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and I think we're in for a major overhaul as soon as the offseason begins. One thing to keep in mind though: the Sox have done what everyone said they couldn't do, and that is rebuild while remaining competitive. We have a new core now and we did it while improving by at least 16 games in the win column. This team has already well surpassed my expectations and even though I'm mad at them for showing weak heart and even less baseball skill, I have to give Kenny credit for not letting this become another 90-loss season.

QUOTE (WinningUgly85 @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 09:50 PM) KW needs to call for a press conference. No seriously I want to hear it. I want him to explain why this team failed. Sure our expectations going into the season were low, looking at Detroit, but this division was ours and now we gave it up. I want to know what happened to this team. Kenny doesn't manage the club. This is all on Ozzie's shoulders as far as I see it. It's Ozzie's responsibility to motivate his players, make any changes to the coaching staff if necessary, make out the lineups, and make the decisions as to who does what when. The fact that Ozzie preaches "smallball" and defense yet fails to put out a lineup capable of playing that game - when that is the EXACT formula the Twins have used to beat us in Minny for years now - shows he's full of s***. I thought Ozzie was the type of manager to throw his players under the bus? I guess not, because if Ozzie was that type of manager JD would be on the bench, Griffey would have been the DH, and Thome would be riding the pine for game three as well.

The saddest part of the whole ordeal is the Twins almost beat themselves. Without the collision in CF and the errant throw by Slowey this game is over long before extras. The Sox once again failed to resemble a baseball team with even the slightest clue. In this series Ozzie has gone from making me scratch my head to making me clench my fists. Taking Uribe out to bat f***ing Swisher? No Anderson so Griffey can face a lefty? No changes whatsoever to the lineup? Not even the slightest attempt to engineer a lineup more capable of winning against the Twins in the dome? I'm sick to death of this all-or-nothing style of play. The entire 40-man roster is eligible to play so at least try something else, even if it is for no other reason then to send a message to your lethargic sluggers. For as much as Ozzie loves to dick around with his lineups and talk up fundamental baseball, he sure doesn't seem to put his money where his mouth is when it counts. I'd much rather lose knowing we tried something different than sit there watching this team go through the motions once again. And one last thing: enough with the broadcasters complaining about bloop hits and bad umpiring. At some point you're expected to make pitches, play defense, and hit the f***ing ball.

QUOTE (tommy @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 05:05 PM) I think what he means is there is 42 games that are going to be close, and team that wants them more should win. 60 will be won, 60 will be lost. I think that's what he means too. It's normal for him to talk about this during a game we end up losing by one while failing to capitalize on mistakes by the opponent and/or failing multiple times at getting a man home from third with less than two outs.

QUOTE (knightni @ Sep 25, 2008 -> 04:44 PM) Gavin Iowaflood I have a tiny bit of hope Gavin will hold the Twins scoreless long enough for Carlos to catch a glimpse of the Bat Signal.

Tonight's lineup: Dewayne Threemileisland LF Orlando Luistania SS Jermaine Chernobyl RF Jim Hindenburg DH Paul Titanic 1B Ken Challenger, Jr. CF Alexei Blackmonday 2B AJ Dustbowl C Juan Greatchicagofire 3B Gavin Floyd on the bump

Nobody died. That's always good.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Sep 24, 2008 -> 09:41 PM) I agree with you on a lot. When bringing up our 4 guys, do people realize how many guys the Twins have who are good and under 27? It's basically a full roster. I will disagree about the Central. I'm not too concerned with Detroit and Cleveland. So the Sox can still be competitive in this division next season. However, this division sucks ass. I want the Sox to compete against Boston, New York, Tampa, and the Angels. I think we're long ways away from doing that. I disagree. We need four main things after this season: a lead-off hitter, a #2 hitter, defense in CF, and a reliable #3/4 starter. If Jerry agrees to add some to the payroll, we have two FA targets in Furcal and Hudson to fill one of those needs, and Roberts and Figgins should both be available for trade. If the Sox can put together any combination of those 4 players (aside from Hudson + Roberts) we fill out our infield and have the first two spots taken care of. Put BA in center because he's already here, and sign a Derek Lowe/Brad Penny type - a veteran who has had success and shouldn't require more than 3 years on a reasonable deal. Then it's all fixed and we've got an entirely different team capable of competing with anyone as long as things go right. The problem with all this is that the Sox are going to have to make some real decisions for once and decide to dump some of these players they love. I couldn't give a s*** about Nick Swisher and his great attitude right now, and I don't care if they sell low. I have faith in Paulie, but they can sell low on him for all I care. I love Dye, but sell high if you have to. Look to trade Thome if you have to and buy out Griffey. The Sox will have to actually get rid of at least one, probably two, of these players in addition to buying out Griffey. I'm skeptical that they'll do it because they love to run the same one-dimensional teams out there, but should they decide to bite the bullet and sell low on a couple guys in favor of changing the dynamic of the team, it is possible for them to compete with the best teams out there.

QUOTE (Sox It To Em @ Sep 24, 2008 -> 09:47 PM) Let's attempt to compile a complete list of all the winnable games we gave away this year. #1. The Dotel game in Oakland. That's hard to do when you try your hardest to block that s*** out permanently. I know there were at least 2 big Dotel slams, several ugly Thome K's on pitches out of the strikezone with a runner on 3rd with less than two outs, I know there have been all kinds of botched bunts, rundowns, straight steals, and hit and run plays, I know our bullpen has crapped all over itself numerous times, Buehrle has failed many times to pitch over mistakes, Javy has s*** himself... I believe we're about an even .500 or a game below since the All-Star break, and we hardly hit at all in the first half. We've easily given up 20+ games, and while obviously this stuff happens over the course of the season and you can't win them all, you can't expect to give up that many. 2008 Sox is as bad or worse than the 2003 Sox, and the only reason we're still in it is because up until the start of this series, the Twins have been even worse.

The Sox aren't going to do s*** tomorrow. If the sluggers couldn't get to Blackburn they're not doing jack against Slowey. I'd make some drastic changes. Lineup: Cabrera SS Ramirez 2B Griffey DH Konerko 1B Pierzynski C Swisher RF Uribe 3B Wise CF Owens LF Now you have 5 guys in a row with some speed on the bases. Maybe Owens and Wise can get a bunt hit or two or an infield chopper. Maybe one of those guys can steal a bag and put some pressure on the opposing pitcher. All I know is that this all or nothing s*** is not working and I'd feel a lot more confident in being able to scrape a couple runs across with a lineup like that than I would with a bunch of fence swingers who can't pick up a changeup. The only way I can see us winning tomorrow is by Gavin going 7+ and giving up 2 runs or less with our offense actually manufacturing a few runs. I can't believe I'm asking for Wise and Owens in the lineup, but I'm sick of watching this s***. Make some f***ing changes.

How would you guys rank our system by area? I'm not good at this stuff and I don't get to see these guys play, but I read about them so I'll take a stab: Corner OF/1B/DH prospects: 1. B Allen 2. J Shelby 3. J Martinez 4. C Marrero 5. D Cook 6. MS Gartrell CF prospects: 1. J Danks 2. K Gerst 3. K Williams, Jr. 4. S Sanchez 5. S Morales 3B prospects: 1. Beckham 2. Morel 3. Retherford 4. J Castillo 5. L Johnson 2B prospects: 1. Beckham 2. Getz 3. Bourgeois 4. L Johnson 5. D Mollenhauer SS prospects: 1. Beckham 2. E Escobar 3. S Miranda 4. G Paiml 5. T Kuhn Catching prospects: 1. D Lucy 2. C Armstrong 3. K Dubler 4. M Inouye 5. F Hernandez SP prospects: 1. A Poreda 2. C Richard 3. N Griffith 4. S Upchurch 5. D Carter 6. C Shirek 7. A Carter 8. J Egbert 9. J Cassell 10. J Rasner 11. L Harrell 12. L Broadway 13. L Maxwell 14. W Whisler 15. J Ely RP prospects: 1. A Poreda 2. D Rodriguez 3. K Texeira 4. J Link 5. A Russell 6. D O'Neil 7. J Lujan 8. M Socolovich 9. H Mabee 10. R Strauss 11. F Hernandez 12. B Omogrosso 13. M Long 14. S Luis 15. C Torres

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 19, 2008 -> 11:30 AM) He hit .122 as a 21 year old in Bristol with a ton of strikeouts and a ton of errors. It was obvious playing professional baseball wasn't his thing. As is the case with most guys taken simply to fill out a bench in Rookie ball. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 19, 2008 -> 11:30 AM) How many 36th rounders with those same numbers don't get released? Yet he gets to screw around another season, albeit riding a lot of pine but still playing and gets a call up to Charlotte for one game. Isn't there a bit of Rob Valido hate on this board? And that guy was pretty highly touted for a while. Oney's lack of contributions mean nothing, and I don't see how Oney playing a game in Charlotte means anything at all. Charlotte is the place where the legend of Brett Prinz was made. There are always players in Charlotte that have no chance. They're only there to fill the teams so that the slim few who actually do have a chance can play and learn the game. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 19, 2008 -> 11:30 AM) Maybe Charlotte just needed a guy for one game, but it wouldn't have been Oney if Guillen wasn't his last name. And I'm sure there are plenty of spouses at company picnics who wouldn't be there if not for their last names. It's just as irrelevant. If there is any single player in our entire minor league system who feels slighted because he didn't get a couple meaningless at-bats at the end of the season in Triple-A, then that is a player I do not want in my favorite team's organization. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 19, 2008 -> 11:30 AM) There have been plenty of players drafted in the 36th round and beyond who have been at least productive minor leaguers. Again, MLB doesn't do the draft-and-follow thing anymore, and I'm willing to bet that many of the very late round picks were players who benefited from that system. Teams used to be able to take players in the very late rounds who have some outside chance of maybe being something someday and then, if the player proves himself worthy, that player can be offered a contract. There's no point in trying to find winning lottery tickets that late in the draft because those players hardly ever play anyway. If a player is taken where Oney was and is in a situation that Oney was in - being that he knew he wouldn't get playing time - then the best course of action is either to go back to school and try to move up in a future draft like our top pick Gordon Beckham who wasn't even drafted at all, join an indy league like George Sherrill did, or show up at a try-out like Ehren Wassermann did. There is zero point in a player riding the bench like Oney and getting overlooked by a major league organization when he could instead improve his chances and gain notoriety elsewhere. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 19, 2008 -> 11:30 AM) Oney received opportunities based on his last name, and to me, that is wrong. Has a family member ever gotten you a job somewhere? Did anyone help you buy a car or a house? Drafting Oney is the same thing, except details of his life are open to the public because of his trade and are pointlessly scrutinized on message boards. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 19, 2008 -> 11:30 AM) I think he "retired" because he knew Buddy Bell wasn't going to go along with the game anymore and he would have finally been released. I suppose you would have no problem with Oney playing the lower levels until he was 40. Buddy Bell vouched for Oney. I'm sure Buddy doesn't care about all the bench-filling non-prospects in the system. His only concern is with the real prospects in the system, and I doubt he'd mind penciling Oney in as the last man on Great Falls' bench for the next ten years. If there was ever a prospect that deserved everyday playing time, then someone else would be promoted, moved over, or traded in order to accommodate that player. Minor league bench-only players do not cut into anyone else's playing time. And, I really couldn't care less if Oney toiled until the age of 40 at the end of the bench in rookie ball. Someone's butt has to be there, why not his? It's not costing any extra money and it doesn't effect the farm system either positively or negatively.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Sep 18, 2008 -> 09:31 PM) Well put. To take that one step further I believe that it is the overall nepotism that has been seen in our drafting strategy. I don't necessarily believe that it has hurt our level of talent but it still sucks when everyone is not judged on an equal playing field. Did nepotism cause us to draft Brent Morel in the 3rd when Tim Melville was available, or did it have anything to do with us taking any of the 3rd-6th rounders ahead of Jordan Danks, who we easily could have lost out on completely? How come Upchurch wasn't taken until the 10th round or Kyle Long until the 23rd? I doubt the Sox think KW Jr. is a better prospect than any of those guys, so nepotism doesn't have anything to do with it. It's just the economics of the game. It's about teams "sending messages" to agents and picking guys they feel they can sign for the amount they plan on offering. It has nothing at all to do with nepotism, it just so happens that Kenny's staff thinks his son is a prospect and since it's family, he was considered an easy sign for the Sox and therefore taken when he was. As far as KW Jr. as a prospect, I don't know much about him but I'd easily trade Kyle McCulloch along with a few packets of old Taco Bell fire sauce found underneath my passenger's seat straight up for Kenny Jr. Here's an excerpt from an article addressing this topic: "My dad did not want to draft me," Kenny Williams Jr. said. "Not based on talent, not based on how I played the game. He just didn't want me to go through his organization and go through that pressure." Scouting director Doug Laumann and the White Sox scouts, however, disagreed. They believed themselves to be an adept organization at handling accusations of nepotism, given the man at the head of their player development department, Buddy Bell. The onetime Major League manager is the son of 1950s All-Star outfielder Gus Bell, as well as father to a pair of former Major Leaguers -- Mike and David.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 17, 2008 -> 04:00 PM) Its nice to know you have no problem with one of the worst farm systems in baseball being a playground for relatives of others in the organization. So what he's a 36th round pick. Well, Buerhle was a 38th round pick. Good thing the White Sox didn't decide to draft JR's neighbor with 2 left feet instead that year, so maybe he could have a good time and be overmatched as a rookie. Oney, if his last name was Smith, would have at least been released after the 2007 season. If the guy's last name was anything but Guillen, he wouldn't have been drafted, and he wouldn't have received the opportunities he received, including playing one game in Charlotte. That is just wrong. Buehrle was a draft and follow guy. Teams can't do that anymore. Had Buehrle been drafted in the 38th round of the 2008 first year player draft he would have had to go back to school and then re-enter the draft if he wanted any playing time. Or he could have joined up with an independent league somewhere. Oney was brought in to fill a spot on the bench in the low minors. He wasn't brought in to play ahead of any actual prospects. The only reason people say anything is because of his last name. If the Sox had draft some guy named John Doe who sucked just as bad and stuck him at the end of the bench there wouldn't have even been a thread about it. And it's not like the Sox gave him some outrageous signing bonus either. I fail to see how drafting a sucky minor league bench player unrelated to a member of the Sox organization instead of drafting a sucky minor league bench player who is related to a member of the Sox organization makes us a better, more successful organization.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 18, 2008 -> 12:35 PM) I can't remember where I saw it, but the net subtractions (assuming Cabrera and Crede are gone, and maybe Uribe) aren't that great, maybe we end up saving $5-7 million total. We still have Contreras' deal on the books, and while I'm not sure about how much insurance will cover it, or whether he will actually make a comeback attempt at mid-season....but we have to replace the fifth starter, and that won't happen with Poreda until 2010 I imagine. I think KW will try to find another bargain on the free agent market (like Loaiza) and then TRY to identify a youngster like Danks or Floyd that's undervalued and a team that would be willing to accept a package centered around Josh Fields. I don't see what pieces we have to make a deal for Figgins work...it just doesn't make sense for the Angels to strengthen an AL rival. They certainly don't need Fields. I think Thome will end up making more (because we're losing the Phillies subsidy), Jenks will definitely get a big raise in arbitration (I'm not sure about giving him a long-term deal with "controlled" numbers)...I think we're also carrying Mike MacDougal's contract through at least 2009. It's hard to imagine a Dye trade, even though that's the most logical from a "buy low, sell high" point of view. With Konerko and Swisher at "low value" and Thome very unlikely to be dealt because of the dearth of LH bats, that just opens up another big hole in the outfield. Are you going to trade Dye for another starting pitcher? Well, that's the ONLY thing that makes sense...and then trying to get an underachieving pitcher in the deal, maybe not a Phil Hughes/Homer Bailey in terms of name recognition but someone with a lot of unrealized potential. I just wouldn't count on finding another Quentin in this offseason. And I worry about going into the season with Anderson/Wise as the platoon in CF, with Swisher and Quentin on the corners. I think we can get another year or two out of AJ. He's never going to throw out many runners (our pitchers don't help much in this area either!), but he's a good complimentary player, and statistically, the #2 AL catcher in many categories. Just not a #2 hitter, except for desperate circumstances. I'm willing to bet Kenny already has a list of potential Floyd/Danks-like projects, it's just whether or not we'll be able to pick one of them up. I think that's the plan too. The Contreras injury hurts because now we can't trade him, but it *could* end up being a blessing in disguise if we get another young pitcher and Contreras comes back mid-season '09. If we get another guy into August and he's starting to wear down then Contreras coming back would be huge. I think the Sox wanted to go young in their rotation post-Contreras anyway, even if he came out of '08 healthy. What we don't know regarding Figgins is what players we have that the Angels would want. The Angels are known for their farm and they may covet some players in our farm that don't get mentioned as often. I wouldn't say we don't have enough to get him because neither of us know enough about our farm to make that determination. Chone Figgins isn't exactly Albert Pujols, he's a slap-hitting speedster with one year left on his contract who plays mediocre defense. All we have to do is beat Type A compensation and other interested teams' offers. No team is going to offer an elite prospect for this guy. Agree on Thome. We do have MacDougal under contract next year as well. Jenks will get a raise. I think we could get an underachieving player in a Konerko deal or a Swisher deal. If we deal Dye I want something really good because he's only had one bad year since coming to the Sox, and it was more like a bad half that made his year look bad. Other than that he's been great and he's on an affordable contract for the next two years I believe. Agree on AJ and I think we'll have a better option to hit second in '09.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 17, 2008 -> 10:49 AM) Who is going to trade for a guy that put up the numbers that he did this year AFTER he has knee surgery? A couple of things: 1. There has to be at least one other team out there that loves Josh Fields' potential, and it's very possible that someone jumps at the opportunity to pick him up. Keep in mind that Josh has only been strongly rumored to be available twice, once for future HOF'er Miguel Cabrera and then over this year's deadline for I believe a "top of the rotation starter." Many Sox fans feel like Josh is worthless and no one wants him, but I think it's stupid to believe that. Power potential like that doesn't grow on trees, and in his last healthy season he hit 23 homers in the Major Leagues. There may be teams out there that inquired on Josh but were denied because they weren't prepared to give up a ton, but now coming off a bad season, surgery, and apparently no longer in Ozzie's plans, he'll be available at a price another team is willing to pay. 2. Josh's knee surgery could help improve his defense or it could slow him down. Because of his power, he can also fit as a 1B or a DH if an American League team has interest, so that's a bit of insurance. We're not talking about a player whose value was based on speed and/or range. Edit: Overall, we'll just have to wait and see. But one injury-riddled season after his impressive rookie campaign is not enough to kill a prospect with Josh's potential in the eyes of 30 MLB teams. Someone will want him and, if he's dealt, we'll get a good player back.

QUOTE (oralsoxpodcast @ Sep 17, 2008 -> 03:29 PM) Josh Fields needs to be traded to the Texas Rangers. They like their young home run hitters down there. He strikes out too much and plays a lousy third. The current White Sox don't need another player that is slow, bad defensively, and only hits homeruns. Enough of that. Besides, Crede will still be here next year, along with Juan as his backup, IMHO. Fields would be a great fit for Texas, but I don't know if they have what we'd want. Actually, let me rephrase that: they have a lot of what we'd want but they're not going to be trading it. I think prospects would be the bet from Texas since they have such a deep farm system, and that could work out well in a 3-way deal, or with another deal with a separate team in place and contingent on the Texas deal, where we'd send the prospects from the Fields trade elsewhere. Still, because of Fields' injury-riddled 2008 it's hard to guess how much he'd be worth to other teams.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Sep 17, 2008 -> 11:08 PM) I think they have to part ways with Crede, for a number of reasons...it will be either Fields, Uribe or Beltre/Blalock. I can't see why the Sox would go from an arb-eligible injury-prone 3B to another arb-eligible injury-prone 3B. There has been a lot of talk about Chone Figgins at third, and the D'Backs - Kenny's favorite trading partner - have two 3B in Chad Tracy and Mark Reynolds. Plus there's a logjam in Colorado with Stewart and Atkins, and other one-year possibilities like Melvin Mora and Pedro Feliz (I think he only signed a two-year deal with the Phils) who shouldn't cost much in terms of talent. Then there's Casey Blake, who I believe is an Iowa native and might like to play closer to home. There are several 3B possibilities beyond that and I doubt the Sox are going to restrict themselves as much as you say. In fact, because of all the possibilities that exist at 3B, I expect that to be one of the last holes to fill over the offseason. The first priority IMO is deciding whether or not to bring Uribe back, and at what salary. That decision immediately gives the Sox a direction to take. With Uribe locked in, then the Sox have a back-up plan as a starter for 3B, SS, and 2B. If they decide to pursue someone else as a starter then Uribe becomes a super UT man once again. The biggest question will be whether or not Uribe wants to test the free agent waters for a guaranteed starting job. He does love the Sox though, so if the money is right I could definitely see him re-upping right away even with some uncertainty as to his role. The second priority will most likely be a lead-off hitter. I think Kenny will leave his options open here and will be able to target lead-off types for 2B, SS, 3B, and CF, with the main targets being Figgins, Roberts, and Furcal. Once a lead-off hitter is found then he can move on to addressing other areas. The third priority should be deciding what to do with the Dye-Thome-Konerko-Swisher four-headed monster that should only reign over 3 spots. Dye will have the most trade value, but he has also been the most productive player of the 4 and is a fan favorite. If the Sox believe Konerko will come back and Swisher is still a good player in a horrible year, then trading Dye for parts that allow him a secondary move is an option. Thome I'd think is the safest bet of the four to stay simply because he's a big LH bat, and if you take that out then you have to immediately replace it. Swisher is the worst hitter of the four, but I can't see Kenny selling low on him. Anything can happen though. The fourth priority will be finding a SP, probably another young guy if possible. Kenny has pieces to deal and with Contreras' contract still on the books, I expect another under-the-radar Floyd/Danks type of acquisition. It may not work out the same way, but I bet that's the road Kenny will take. The fifth priority, assuming our new lead-off hitter doesn't play third, is finding a third baseman. Because of the number of options available, including Josh Fields (if he isn't traded by this point) and Uribe (assuming he's brought back) it doesn't make sense to address 3B until the larger concerns are. It's possible that picking up another reliever would hold priority over the 3B situation as well. I expect KW to have a 2005-like offseason. We'll have a lot of money coming off the books, the ability to trade a slugger without strongly damaging the strength of the lineup, we'll have several holes to fill, and we'll have the incentive to build a more fundamentally sound team with a more dynamic lineup.

QUOTE (SoxFanForever @ Sep 15, 2008 -> 03:05 PM) We should just let him hit one handed. He is probably better than Swisher. LOL It's funny because it's true.

I'd definitely listen to offers on Bobby if we could get something amazing, but that's pretty unlikely. We could get some great prospects I'm sure, but the teams willing to trade the kind of prospects that Bobby would cost probably aren't going to be willing to trade the Major League players we want. Now if some three-way deal came along where some small market team gave us a great player, with a large market team taking Bobby and sending their 'spects to the small market team, that would be something to think about. However, trading Bobby is very unlikely. I want to see the Sox use some of this money coming off the books on Juan Cruz to solidify the front of our bullpen and also give us an option for the late innings when the other guys hit rough patches. Then I want to see the Sox throw out minor league deals to guys like David Weathers and Ron Villone from the left side if they don't get contract offers. Also, if the Sox want to open up CF for a player that can play defense, they're going to have to deal one of Paulie/Swisher/Dye/Thome, and if they do that then I'd like to see a Major League reliever coming back as part of the package, preferably a lefty.

My dream scenario is we clinch in Minny and use the last series against Cleveland to rest our starting pitchers, sluggers, and the back of our pen. Game 1 vs. CLE - start Broadway Game 2 vs. CLE - start Richard Game 3 vs. CLE - start Horacio Lineups for all 3 games: LF Owens RF Wise CF Anderson 1B Swisher 3B Fields DH Hall for the first two, Griffey for the last one SS Uribe C Phillips 2B Bourgeois Starters each go 5 no matter what. Who cares. Russell gets the full 6th inning in each game. MacDougal gets the full 7th inning in each game. Wassermann gets the 8th inning in the first two games. Logan gets the 9th inning in each of the first two games. Carrasco gets a nice rest and gets the 8th of the final game. Linebrink gets the 9th of the final game. Everyone else rests the whole series. We'd probably lose the series by a combined score of 72-6, with Logan alone responsible for at least 35 of them, but we NEED to find out which of our weakest links is the strongest at the moment in order to fill out the playoff roster. IMO, Russell and MacDougal would be the tallest midgets so far with Wassermann a strong possibility and Horriblio Ramirez a darkhorse because Ozzie doesn't like rookies such as Richard, especially when they f***ing suck. Carrasco, Jenks, Linebrink, Thornton, Dotel, and Jenks are the 6 locks. We need two more, and it would be nice to have another lefty not named Ramirez, Logan, or Richard, but alas that cannot be the case and it might be better taking another bad righty over one of those guys. For the bench, assuming 12 pitchers go and Paulie is back but Quentin is not, I'd say we're looking at Swish and Griffey both in the OF leaving a bench of: Hall, Anderson, Wise, Bourgeois (we need an IF). If Quentin is back then one of Anderson/Wise goes with Mr. Team KKKKemistry taking over center and pushing Griffey to the bench.

QUOTE (scenario @ Aug 30, 2008 -> 03:52 PM) No. I'm talking about Egbert. And if hadn't started out the year injured and then had a bad first month coming back from injury, we probably would have seen him up here rather than Broadway. Last 10 performances: Egbert has had 7 quality starts in his last 10 outings in Charlotte. Broadway? 3 QS in his last 10 outings. ERA in last 3 months (June, July, August): Egbert = 3.51 Broadway = 6.44 He's put up some good numbers since finally getting over his arm troubles, but he still doesn't throw in the mid-90's. From what I've seen he seems to work in the 87-90mph range with his fastball. He's a good prospect, but with his control, change-up, and groundball ratio, if he worked in the mid-90's with his fastball he'd be an elite pitching prospect and well, well ahead of Poreda. He's got a shot at the Majors though.

QUOTE (WilliamTell @ Aug 30, 2008 -> 03:01 PM) Did he sign with another team, because the Dodgers DFA'd him. I was looking at the 40 man roster and it said nothing about Lucy being out, which is why I included him. How long ago did he get injured, I missed that. I think he got injured sometime in May or something. He's been out a long time and I'd imagine he'd be transferred to the 60-day DL. There's also Dewon Day still on the 40-man so if we wanted to bring back Pablo and add another player or two not currently on the roster we could cut Day and do that. I want to see Link or Rodriguez. Don't start the clock on Poreda yet unless the Sox plan on dealing him. If they do, I'd like Poreda as a LOOGY (but be added by tomorrow and called up so he's post-season eligible). Then, I guess bring up Owens as a pinch runner and Chris Getz as another back-up in the IF. Bring up Fields as some RH power off the bench in a pinch hit situation. Add Wassermann, and that's probably it. There's no reason to crowd the clubhouse with guys that aren't a fit for any situation aside from blow-outs.

QUOTE (scenario @ Aug 30, 2008 -> 02:11 PM) I agree with the list above (minus Lucy obviously). And I wouldn't be surprised if Egbert is added. He's only had one bad month this year, and that was in May. In his last 10 outings (60.2 innings), he has a 3.24 ERA with 54 K's and only 11 BBs. A pitcher who can throw 95mph with sink on the ball, not walk people, and throw for multiple innings could come in pretty handy. (And he's already on the 40-man roster.) If Egbert threw 95 we'd have never seen Lance Broadway or Clayton Richard up here. Are you talking about Poreda?

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