Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 25, 2008 -> 10:06 PM) even Dotel? Not sure why you say that...his WHIP is ugly at 1.58, but his K/9 is 14.7 and he's been a bit more wild than he generally ever has been, so I expect that to go down...he's been filthy. Barring injury, Dotel's going to have a great all-around year. He could possibly maintain something close to that K/9 ratio IF he's used primarily as a righty specialist. He has excelled in that capacity. I know most would probably say Dotel makes too much money to be a righty specialist but I'd like to see him stick there for now. I still think that in many cases the lefty and righty specialists are more valuable than even the closer is, and I say that because it seems like most of the time when the so-called LOOGY's and ROOGY's come in, they are coming in late in the game to face a dangerous hitter with men on base. In those situations a bad outing can change the entire complexion of the game, whereas often closers will come in with no one on to protect 2 or 3-run leads.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 25, 2008 -> 05:51 PM) I will clear things up in a short summation. While we are not 100% on the information posted, we did perform some follow-up confirmations (those follow-ups indicated that the information appeared to be legit). However, we are not in the business of ruining peoples careers and the material posted was such that could ruin someones career. As such, we pulled it from the site. I see. Bureau hasn't been banned has he? I hope he can still post here and at least give us updates on our prospects.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ May 22, 2008 -> 09:29 AM) What's up with the Wilder thread? It disappeared to be worked on? And now the "placeholder" thread is closed too? Did somebody say too much? I'd like to know too. What's going on? How come it's getting the ex-girlfriend treatment?

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 20, 2008 -> 01:12 PM) I'll go Penn over Sherk 4th round submission and Wand over the Dean of Mean 2nd round TKO (that pick is from the heart, see if it holds). Toughest call is on Machida vs. Ortiz. Machida is extremely talented, but Tito is a big 205 with quality wrestling and ground game. Machida has beat Franklin and Penn, but both those guys are smaller than Ortiz, although Franklin has fought at 205 before and may in the future. It is going to come down to Machida's takedown defense and ability to standup or get dominant position on the ground. Ultimately I will go with Machida. I agree with you on Machida over Ortiz, but I think the toughest call has to be BJ vs. Sherk. BJ hasn't gone 5 rounds since his draw vs. Caol Uno in 2003. He's looked a ton better lately, but Pulver and Stevenson aren't Sherk. I don't know who to pick at all in that fight. I don't think Tito is going to be able to take Machida down. It'll probably go the distance but I don't see Tito being successful on any takedowns more than twice, and I don't think he'll be able to hold Lyoto down very long either. Lyoto should pepper him on his feet and send Tito home to his little baghead (at least I hope anyway). Wandy vs. Jardine is tough though. I could see Jardine doing the same thing to Wandy that he did to Chuck; just countering his punches, throwing kicks, backing off. But then again I really want Wandy to get a KO. My mind says Jardine because I think he's a totally different fighter after getting KO'd by Houston Alexander and won't look to mix it up close with Wandy, but my heart says Wandy. Also Sokoudjou returns against Nakamura on that card. Nakamura's a tough guy that can make you look bad, but Soko hopefully will put him to sleep. Goran Reljic, Yoshiyuki Yoshida, and Shane Carwin all debut on that card as well. UFC 84 is going to kick ass.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 19, 2008 -> 02:09 PM) The Faber v Pulver fight should be awesome. Both guys are pretty dynamic, I would give Pulver the edge on his feet, and Faber as the better grappler. Uriah has this knack for getting some unconventional move, that works for a submission. Because of his dynamic fight game, he is hard to get ready for. He is about as natural of a fighter as I have seen in the sport. Pulver will need his experience and his punching power to win this. I'm excited for the fight, but Urijah is going to demolish Pulver. He'll work him over quicker than he did Curran. In fact, I think Urijah will finish Jens faster than BJ did. BJ got him 3:12 into the 2nd round, and I don't think Pulver will even get to the 2nd. Urijah is f***ing good.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 09:39 PM) Sorta off topic, but it's too bad we didn't trade Garland for Pat Burrell. Really? You'd want him over Quentin???

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 09:15 PM) This team has left 9 guys in scoring position....they don't deserve to win. Yeah, against Chien Ming Wang.... it's not like the Sox were facing some scrub on the mound today. The Sox offense did everything they could be expected to do: work up the pitch count, drive Wang out of the game ASAP, give your pitcher the lead and get into the bullpen. Every once in a while you need your pitching to get it done for you. Unfortunately the Octavio Meatball Express f***ed that all up. f*** you, Octavio. You're just a rich man's Mike Jackson.

QUOTE (DBAH0 @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 08:24 AM) With the way Conor Jackson is swinging the bat for the D-Backs, I can't see them being a potential destination for Paulie anymore. And Kotchman has a +.900 OPS so far for the Angels, so he's not regressing by any means so far. So I think it's going to be hard to do a deal there. But I hope now at least KW has seen the value in good young players, and continues to target them (whether it's for the lineup, rotation or the bullpen). The Angels could make some sense for Paulie if the Sox did want to move him. I believe they have Garrett Anderson coming off the books after this year, which will allow them to move GMJ into the OF and open up the DH spot. Of course Vladdy needs some DH time too, but I doubt the Angels want to take his arm out of their OF permanently. The Blue Jays and Mariners could make sense as well. The Royals would be a good fit if they weren't in the division. While KW has dealt with KC before, the Royals are on the upswing and probably too close to contention IMO to deal a big bat their way. If the Sox did decide to move Paulie there would definitely be suitors.

WTF??? That's the second positive Sox related article I've read from Dayn Perry recently. Maybe he doesn't hate the Sox anymore? I bet he hates the Rockies with a passion now though.

QUOTE (BobDylan @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 08:15 PM) Cigga weed? More like a couple bottles of Mad Dog purchased in change at 11 in the morning after waking up in a box car.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I for one love Da Rev's posts. It's fun to read through it and find stanzas that completely contradict the aim of the "sermon" due to horribly poor word usage. It's also nice to see the determination of this guy. He always posts this stuff and always gets the same type of responses, but he just keeps on doing it anyway. You have to love that.

I started coming here as a guest way back when because SoxTalk has by far the best MiLB and prospect/draft discussions of all Sox forums I've been to. But now a complaint!!! Why take down the Trade Winds forum? The only time of the year trades cannot happen is between Sept 1 and the end of the WS, a span of like 2 months? Keep it year round!!! Aside from actual trade rumors there is always good discussion about topics like how much Kyle Lohse sucks or why someone would or would not make a completely ridiculous hypothetical trade. Okay, and now more praise. I like how the forum is allowed to go a bit further than some others in terms of discussion. I feel like I could say some pretty nasty things here if I wanted to in general, but I won't. It's just nice to know that if I really wanted to I could write an entire page about Guiness farts or something like that. So, good job. As far as the irritability thing, I think Juan Uribe has more to do with that than anything else. Take him off the team and sure, another mediocre to s***ty ballplayer will become the new main target, but I think overall the mood would lighten considerably. I know I saw a lot more optimism after the Sox dumped the likes of Pods, Erstad, Gonzalez, and Suckvich.

Quentin, and I'd like for Anderson to sneak into a couple of games so that he can impress also. Just keep Owens off the team, because if he's on the team, Ozzie will no doubt start him in CF every day regardless of how poorly he performs.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Apr 5, 2008 -> 10:47 PM) Floyd, for all the hate this kid gets on here for not being Cy Freakin Young. He is our 5th starter. And he pitched well today. He will have good days and bad. His breaking stuff is pretty good, and unlike a lot of our previous 5th starters with his talent he can shut down a team. I don't think it's hate as much as pessimism. I guess he does become a beacon of misdirected anger at the organization overall though. Some of the problems with Floyd are: 1. His career MLB numbers 2. His loss of velocity out of the stretch 3. His slow delivery and weak pick-off move 4. His tendency to sort of lunge forward off the mound instead of staying back which hurts his location 5. His inability to consistently throw his curve for strikes 6. The fact that his change often disappears entirely for stretches 7. The ease with which he turns into a one-pitch pitcher 8. The fact that the Sox play in a hitters park which is brutal on mediocre to bad flyball pitchers, especially in the summer 9. The fact that he's never even pitched 180 innings in a season, much less 200 10. That he's out of options so the Sox can't send him down without putting him on waivers, which means they are likely to allow him to suck for a considerable length of time before pulling the plug 11. His lack of mound presence and documented confidence issues Sox fans have plenty of reasons to worry about Floyd. Hopefully he does well, but it is going to take a lot more than one start or even one half season for the majority of people to think he has turned the corner. You are right in that he certainly has the physical talent (low 90's FB + vicious curve when it's working + decent change) but he is going to have to overcome a LOT in order to get to that point. IMO, Floyd is either going to find his confidence and learn to throw all three pitches with consistency, which will make him more of a middle rotation guy (a couple #2-like seasons, typically a #3), or he's not going to survive in the league at all. I can't see him as #5. As a side note, while watching the game on Fox they cut over to Floyd on the bench next to Danks and he was laughing. I also saw an interview in ST where he still looked kind of nervious/camera shy, but he didn't look anywhere as near as bad as last spring. Anyway, just seeing Gavin laughing on the bench impressed me just as much as his start yesterday. If he can loosen up, build some confidence, get a bit of an edge/ego/whatever, then he has a chance.

Start at 162 and subtract one for every game Joe Crede, Juan Uribe, Jerry Owens, or Gavin Floyd takes the field.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 27, 2008 -> 06:32 PM) I've noticed that Anderson has no clue how to hit the inside fastball. Did you see the bomb he hit the other day against the Royals? It was about a 94-96mph fastball on the inside corner at the knees and he killed it over the left field wall.

QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 10:23 AM) When you say Owens can't play CF, you're talking mainly about his arm? Coco Crisp has a weak arm and his team wasnt totally killed by that. Again when you talk about leadoff hitters, imagine Owens...even with a .340 OBP. Yet, he's standing on second a lot of the time for our big bashers. Owens' fielding problems cant be considered so serious that we totally take away that potential leadoff guy. I mean, do we really want another year of having the sluggers up there with no one to drive in? Fault the Sox for trying to win this year, but part of that is making sure every piece locks in place, like in '05. We need a leadoff hitter to lock in place, and we need the 3-4-5 to not be awful. It may be faulty logic to try to win now, but taking a shot at Owens making a big leap is part of that logic. Boston has pitching. Crisp sucks but has a better arm than Owens. Boston also plays in theme park for a stadium. They ahve many advantages, but mainly it's their awesome pitching staff that enables them to get away with garbage like Crisp and Julio Lugo. Owens has no shot at stopping a runner from advancing 2nd to 3rd or from 3rd to home unless he's basically standing face-to-face with the cut-off man. He might as well run the damn ball to the cut off man. Swisher is better than Owens. Quentin is better than Owens. If you want OBP then you could make the argument that since Swisher is a better CF and a better hitter than Owens, he should be in CF with Quentin in LF. As far as having a fast guy at the top of the lineup, we don't have that type of team. Look at our projected lineup 1-9 with their career OBP: Owens CF .324 Cabrera SS .321 Thome DH .409 Konerko 1B .353 Dye RF .337 Swisher LF .361 Pierzynski C .328 Crede 3B .305 Uribe 2B .295 It's still the same thing. It's a slow lineup full of a bunch of hackers and pseudo grinders aka bad players. One fast guy who doesn't know how to take a walk and can't play CF isn't going to help anything. That is still an all-or-nothing lineup, and when you add some s***ty starting pitching, it spells disaster. I'd rather see the most talent in the starting lineup possible, forget the grinders, and if guys like Anderson, Quentin, Ramirez, Richar, etc. can't get it done then that means you go find another talented player and put him in there instead. The Sox are trying to make Owens, who isn't a true lead-off man and never will be, into the true lead-off man they never acquired during the offseason.

QUOTE(Disco72 @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 10:01 AM) I'm not going to re-start the Crede vs Fields debate, but Ramirez and Bourgeois have never played a single AB in the majors, so we actually do not know that they are better than the guys you claim they are better than. Phillips is nearly 31-year old catcher with a career OPS of .635 over four seasons with the Royals. Hall has a .673 career OPS over a nine year career where he has been good enough to be a starter. If he's healthy, you might call him and Phillips equivalent players, but you can't say Phillips is clearly better. Quentin (.742 career OPS) is going to get a chance (it appears) to show he's healthy and productive with Owens injured. Anderson (career .632 OPS) will also get that chance (by the way, Owens career OPS of .639 is slightly better than Andersons). For the record, I'm with the group that hopes that Anderson and Quentin prove themselves to be very good major league players and Owens can be the speed guy off the bench. There are so many definitive statements being made these last few days about who is better than whom that it is starting to make my head spin. I'd rather see who performs when the opening bell rings. EDIT: Princess, you beat me to some of this... Just about anything is better than Juan Uribe, especially at $4.5 million per season. The potential Ramirez has is better than anything Juan has done since 2004 on offense. Defense I don't know, but he's supposedly pretty good. IMO, Ramirez failing and learning at the MLB level is better than Uribe failing and learning nothing like usual. Bourgeois proved himself worthy of a shot as a backup last year and this year in ST. He's more versatile than Uribe and does give better AB's from what I've seen. He has a much better idea of the strikezone, and he has some speed and plays hard. He has the grinder mentality that the Sox always stupidly gush over, but that's actually a good mentality for a bench player to have IMO. Uribe is worth nothing as a starting player, he makes a salary that would be better spent elsewhere, and his improved defense over Bourgeois off the bench isn't going to make or break a team without sufficient starting pitching. Bourgeois' learning and experience at the MLB level is worth more to the Sox in the future than Uribe is. And he's already a more disciplined, faster, more versatile player. Toby has been run on and hasn't hit. Phillips has thrown out runners and has hit. Maybe Toby has more talent than Phillips when fully healthy, but he still looks like he's affected by his injury despite his claims otherwise. All you need a back-up catcher to do normally is play defense and hit a shade over .200. Right now both Phillips, Armstrong, and Lucy all look like better options than Hall. Phillips would be the best option since there's a spot on the 40-man open. Armstrong and Lucy can stay in the minors and if Phillips can't hit himself out of a paper bag then you can cut him, losing nothing. Hall if not outright released should be sent to Charlotte to prove he can hit a little and most importantly throw before putting him on the MLB roster.

QUOTE(Princess Dye @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 09:49 AM) Do we really know any of this? Too long a list for the kind of sample sizes we're looking at to base all this on. Especially Quentin and Anderson... are you looking at their major league numbers in real games at all? Owens' numbers in said games matter at all? No matter how you slice it, Owens is not a CF. Anderson is, so Anderson is better. Even if Anderson never gets another hit in the majors in his life, he's still better than Owens who is a LF. Quentin and Swisher are corner OF's. They are better than Owens. Owens doesn't belong in CF over Anderson since he can't play CF, and he doesn't belong in left over Quentin or Swisher because he sucks it hard in comparison. Owens = 4th OF. It's not that I hate Owens or anything, it's that he has no arm, no power, no plate discipline, he has nothing in his game whatsoever that says he is a starting caliber player. He just has speed, which just like any other tool in the game, if it isn't complimented by other abilities it is worthless unless coming off the bench. At least his competition has enough talent to where if those guys turn out they can be above average regulars. Owens at best is another Podsednik, and even that is a huge if considering Pods at least has some kind of plate discipline and showed a little bit of power with Milwaukee.

QUOTE(The Beast @ Mar 26, 2008 -> 09:27 AM) I just am curious about the makeup 25-man roster and if KW keeps Masset over Wassermann, which potentially could be a truly stupid move. A agree. Masset should have booted himself off this team a while ago. The only reason he's around still is because he's out of options and yet again the Sox hope they can get something useful out of him. Even though Wassermann is not a long reliever and we desperately need a long reliever given the innings issues we'll have, I do not think the Sox should be punishing their best players just because they have minor league options left. One can easily make the argument that Wassermann was the second most effective reliever on the 2007 squad and his spring this year has done nothing to show he was a fluke.

Great post. -Fields is cheaper and better than Crede both now and in the future, yet Crede is starting. -Phillips is cheaper and better than Hall both now and probably in the short-term future at least, yet Hall is the back-up. -Ramirez is cheaper and better than Uribe both now and in the future, yet Uribe is starting. -Quentin is just as cheap as Owens and is better both now and in the future, yet Owens is ahead of him on the depth chart. -Anderson is just as cheap as Owens and is better both now and in the future, yet Owens is ahead of him on the depth chart. -Richar is cheaper and better than Uribe both now and in the future, but because of his injury he cannot make the team. That's fine. But... -Bourgeois is also cheaper than Uribe, he also gives better AB's than Uribe, and while his defense is a drop-off from Juan, his speed and versatility off the bench make him more of a long-term benefit than Uribe. The Sox need to stop trying to eek a little bit of value out of players that have none. Just f***ing dump them. What, do the Sox think Fields and Ramirez for example will sell less tickets than Crede and Uribe? Or maybe the season ticket holders won't support a team without a s***ty defensive fast guy with no power at the top of the lineup? I tend to think that 1) Sox fans would rather win, 2) the team on the field isn't as strong as it could and should be, and 3) we're already f***ed this year because of the 3-5 in our rotation, so why not at least put some players on the field who have futures and are fun to watch? I have a sick feeling that we'll wait all spring for Crede and Uribe to be dealt, and we'll read it all in the papers, and we'll even get little teasers in trade rumors that make us believe some team wants to take the salary of one of these guys. But then that will turn into summer, and they'll still be here, and then the trade deadline will come and they'll still be here, then the waiver deadline will come and they'll still be here, and then finally in September we'll see Fields and Richar up to get a few AB's at the end of a season that was dead on arrival. It's like, I know we're not going to win this year. That's fine, I accept that. We've only won one year I've been alive and I'm used to it. But losing with a bunch of f***ing crap on your roster is frustrating as hell and it takes the last bit of fun out of watching an almost guaranteed 3rd-4th place team.

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Mar 20, 2008 -> 12:45 PM) The fact that Izturis and Blanton have not been trading leaves your post speculative at best. When Ramirez was signed he was compared to Omar Infante this could still be the case. Richar wasn't all that great last year. To hand the middle of the diamopnd to those two...........wow is about all I can say. Do you think KW was given the choice between Blanton and Swisher for those three and took Swisher.............. Where is Crede again, KW just released him wiht Uribe? The fact that you also now have Anderson as the starter really shows how great revisionist history can be. Izturis was a FA. I don't think the idea of acquiring Blanton is all that speculative considering that Blanton was available, Swish wasn't, yet KW forced Beane's hand. Obviously no one knows if the package that netted Swisher would have been enough to pick up Blanton, but I think it's safe to say we could have acquired him instead by adding to the package if need be. After all, the top of his farm system is largely made up of ex-Sox players. I agree that projecting Alexei as a starter would have been waaaay too much, but the idea of Richar leaving ST as the every day 2B was not crazy by any means. He'd be a shoe-in to start at 2B now if he hadn't had back and visa issues. I'm not saying that KW should have done what I said. I'm only commenting on how it's funny that things could have worked out much better. We went into the offseason looking for a CF and a SS while we couldn't afford to take a hit with our SP. As it turns out, we took the hit to our starting staff to upgrade SS and almost gave a s***load of cash to Torii Hunter, but now we may have legit in-house solutions to both problem areas.

QUOTE(scenario @ Mar 20, 2008 -> 12:11 PM) Hindsight is a wonderful thing. But no sane person would have made those recommendations last fall. I dunno about all of that. Many Sox fans including myself didn't like the Cabrera deal. It was easy to make the case that the pitching staff as a whole needed the most improvement, as even though the offense was ungodly awful it was still hard to imagine the key cogs not turning it around. I could easily see a fan who wanted to try to contend calling for another young SP with veteran experience (like Haren, Bedard, Blanton, or Snell) to be acquired in a trade. Personally, I wanted to rebuild after '07. I hoped Garland would be dealt for prospects, Contreras would be dumped, Crede and Uribe would be dumped, Egbert would find his way into the rotation, we wouldn't give big money to a FA CF, we'd acquire a young stud corner OF somehow, and we'd pick up a young SS with upside to start for '08. The one thing I agree on is that it would have been difficult for anyone to foresee Anderson improving this much this fast or Alexei even signing here, much less opening eyes in ST.

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Mar 20, 2008 -> 11:54 AM) And you are entitled to your opinion...I, on the other hand, disagree wholeheartedly. Don't forget the outrage of Angels fans when they traded Cabrera. Between him and Swisher, this team is going to have attitude and will be more fun to watch than the laid back Garland and the fresh off the boat Ramirez. There were many Sox fans outraged over dealing Garland too. Fan reaction isn't always the best way to gauge a trade (see how many people went nuts over the McCarthy deal and both Garcia deals). Gavin Floyd has attitude too. The way he spins around to watch the ball fly out of the park just screams 'grinder.'

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 20, 2008 -> 11:47 AM) Seriously picture this. Kenny lets both Crede and Uribe walk, and then Anaheim raises their price to ridiculous levels on Cabrera, because they know Kenny is desparate. Our options literally become Andy Gonzalez, Pablo Ozuna, and someone like David Eckstein. If you really want to make things interesting, take a look at the roster if the maligned Swisher trade isn't made in addition to the convential wisdom of not bringing back Joe and Juan. Our OF would be Anderson/Owens, Quinten, and Dye, to go with an IF of Fields, [insert horrible SS], Ramirez/Richar, and Konerko. Ugh. Cesar Izturis was out there and I'm sure there were other options as well. It's not like any of those names you mentioned would be our starting SS. Regarding the second part, lets say that happens and we start the season around the horn as Fields-Ramirez-Richar-Konerko with an OF of Quentin-Anderson-Dye and Owens as the 4th OF. Then, instead of trading for Swisher, we put together a deal for Blanton and go into the season with Buehrle-Vazquez-Garland-Blanton-Contreras/Danks. Same bullpen, but with a bench of Hall, Owens, Bourgeois, Ozuna. That's a much better team IMO.