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QUOTE (Felix @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 05:03 PM) Who cares about bunting? It's a stupid play designed to give outs away, which is not something we should be doing in front of our sluggers. I agree thats it's better to put the ball in play behind the base runner but there have been several times the Sox needed to bunt a guy over and failed. Good bunters can also bunt their way on as an option if they arent comfortabe with a pitcher. Point is it would be nice to have a guy in the lineup that can actually get a good bunt if they need him to it.

QUOTE (RME JICO @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 05:11 PM) I believe the Anthrax comment was in reference to a former poster using that name. I know Mr. Anthrax from other boards. He's quite the character. After reading the rumors maybe I have under valued Dye. I really didnt think he would be worth more than just Bailey. If the rumors true then lets get all we can.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:30 PM) I too will say welcome to this board. You had me thinking you were Anthrax for a second, but that rumor has been shot down much like this Homer Bailey one. Ouch! Hit me below the belt why dont you. QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:31 PM) If you look at the latest from the reporter who started it (McCOY), he states that he got it from a reliable source from the White Sox. This tells me KW planted it to drive up/determine the interest from other clubs. The talks may be in the works but he is looking for what he wants. I think you're right. Sounds like Kenny is driving business for Dye and whomever else. A far cry from what he's recently said about not trading any more vets. Suppose that just part of the poker game he plays. QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:55 PM) Welcome to the board. Happy Posting. Thanks man.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:15 PM) Even though you've already stirred up the pot quite a bit, I didn't see anyone welcome you to soxtalk. So Welcome! Thanks man. I appreciate it and really didnt mean to stir the pot but someone said it best earlier when they said there should be breathalizers on the puters. Yes I was hammered with the old lady last night so my angst over last seasons offensive troubles were a bit magnafied. So my appologies to those who were offended. Any more to this rumor?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:09 PM) I have no interest in wasting my tradeable talent right now on a catcher, not after trading for Flowers. Thing is Flowers has been kocked for his defense. Not that he cant improve but if Flowers cannot he can be a 1B or if he does improve then Salty can DH for Thome when he's gone or play 1B when Paulie's gone. Im sure we could find room for him. You're tho, we are short as it is on young MLB ready pitchers so at this time it's not the best idea but if a trade like the Bailey rumor or something like it were to happen then we could afford to trade 1 young pitcher. QUOTE (quickman @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:14 PM) for conversation sake any hints on where crede ends up? San fran maybe? Just seems like the market will dwindle on him rapidly. having Boras makes things worse. That would be my guess. SF is pretty desperate for a 3B and a power bat which Crede would provide if he can stay healthy. Thats a big IF tho.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 04:03 PM) I have no idea if we can count on him to stay healthy. But just looking at his stats...Ignoring the slight addition of speed, the guy put up a .391 OBP in 07. He was hurt last year, and still took walks. That 1 walk in 7 at bats or so ratio he puts up would be absolute dynamite at the front of a power loaded lineup. I just don't know what the Angels are going to do on their OF. I'm not sure they do either. I dont think they do know what they are doing. After all they went and signed Hunter despite the numbers Willits put up in 07. Their OF is crowded and at the time they dont have room for Willits. I think the Halo's are hoping they can find a sucker for Mathews Jr and then stick Willits out there every day, trouble is there arent any takers for Mathews Jr so they may have no choice but to trade Willits unless they want to spend money in the FA market for a DH/ 1B which will cost them a pretty penny. Maybe if we could con the Halo's into trading Willits to the Sox Hermie could keep him healthy and on the field every day. Im not going to get my hopes up but it would be nice to have a lead off hitter with speed that can draw walks and swipe bags. Ozzie would creme his shorts if Kenny could get a guy like Willits.

Found this interesting over at mlbtraderumors... The Sox have an opening for a back up catcher. Not sure how young of a pitcher the Rangers are looking for but they could be interested in a guy like Marquez who throws a sinker. It might take more than Marquez but worth looking into since AJ is under contract through 2010.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:53 PM) Again, we need less grinders with good speed and little offensive skill, and get some actual quality MLB hitters if we do trade Dye. I swear some people would be happy with a pitching staff full of projects and and a lineup with all grinders. I agree but we are talking about a lead off hitter here. Willits numbers in 07 were very good for a lead hitter and just what we need to set the table for Quentin and co.

I love to get Willits but what do we have that the Halo's would want? Their IF and OF seems pretty set so it would have to be 1B or DH. Suppose they might be interested in Paulie or Thome. Thome especially since they are looking for LH power bat.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:35 PM) Thats actually not what I have heard at all. Towers is in a real tough spot. The owner is the one telling Towers to move Peavy, but supposedly most of the baseball people with the Pads love Peavy(for obvious reasons). Towers and his staff have to find a deal that is an acceptable return, which becomes difficult when every GM across the league knows Towers has been told to trade Jake. If Towers trades Peavy for a bad package, and the team wins 200 games the next 3 years, he knows it's going to cost him and his staff their jobs. Yup and thats because Towers (correct me if Im wrong) is the one that handled the negotiations with Peavy and his agent. So Towers is on the hook for that ridiculous option and the NTC. Peavy is sitting pretty in the drivers seat with that deal so he should be kissing his agents butt for that.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:12 PM) Hey, let's all stop with the Dye argument. World: He wasn't trash 1399: Yes he was, er, I mean, he is now! God: Stop bickering you women! Fair enuff. That was good man, Im still laughing. Nothing more has been said. At least not on Roto or MLBtraderumors so as of now it doesnt look like theres a deal. Then again the winter meetings have begun so who knows. Im sure Kenny has something cooking and is just doing his usual flying under the radar routine.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 11:20 AM) I'm standing by my statement of saying that if you don't miss JD at all you are not a sox fan. He was our World Series MVP for heavens sake, and our best player for the last 4 years. Not to mention he's a genuine likeable guy that never complains or whines like others and goes about his business in a classy, respectable manner. By saying that he is trash and that you won't miss him offends me as a sox fan. Stand by your words all you want but the facts are that I have been a Sox fan for over 30 years and my house is decorated with Sox stuff all over the place. If you want to judge me based on I wouldnt miss Dye then that just shows how little you really know about people and fans in general. QUOTE (almagest @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 11:29 AM) Guys, don't feed the trolls. It's probably just some Cubs fan or random internet douche trying to piss people off, because saying Dye is trash and lots of people won't miss him is obviously flame bait. He's done nothing but produce his whole time here, and the only year he could be considered a disappointment was 2007 -- when he was still pretty productive. Obviously his production is in decline, since he's in his mid-30s, and that's the main reason we should trade him now, but not because he's "trash". Ummmm, no. I am just like everyone else in that I have two favorite teams, the Sox and who ever the cubs play so nice try. As for trying to piss people off. Thats not it at all. I have opinions and are entitled to them just like everyone else. Just because my opinion on this matter is different from the rest doesnt make me a cub fan or less of a Sox fan. QUOTE (MO2005 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 11:36 AM) Ok I am going to back up the majority of this site by saying anyone who thinks JD is trash or won't be missed should just move their interests to the North Side. This totally sounds like something a Cubs fan would say about a player because they barely understand the game. Jermaine has always been a class act and has demonstrated to the organization and the game of baseball that it doesn't take steroids to be a consistent player. I am totally indifferent about the trade because yes I love Dye, but if it brings us something back then I'll be ok. But that is a big IF? Nobody knows exactly what Kenny's plan is and I am starting to get this bad feeling that Jerry is going to be rather cheap this year. If we trade Jermaine and obtain Homer..then go off and trade Jenks for some young unproven guy, the 2009 season will be a disaster. This meaning we don't go out and sign any veteran guys. In 2005 we traded and let guys go obtaining decent salaries to obtain replacements in the veteran category with AJ and Dye. The part that kills me is that I would rather see almost anyone else traded on the team besides Jermaine. Konerko is the first one that comes to mind. I just pray and hope with whatever happens that we obtain a couple of guys to really help this club. If not I will not be attending 0 games next season! Been watching baseball my whole life so I understand it just fine. The bottom line is Dye as well as others hurt this team badly in 08 and changes need to be made so that we dont have to suffer through another miserable season of an inconsistent offense. The Sox production 4-7 was beyond bad in 08 and if guys cannot produce then we need to get rid of them and find players that can hit better then what we have. I saw the 4-7 hitters leave way too many guys on base last year and like most Sox fans Im sick of it. I do agree that first and foremost Paulie should be the one to go first but what team wants a guy that cannot hit for average, drive runners in or hit the long ball with any consistency all the while making 12M per year? No GM in their right mind would take that chance, not even that bafoon Hendry who is pretty dumb. You guys dont like my "trash" comment and thats fine but to call me a cubs fan or to say Im not really a Sox fan just shows the mentality of people here. Im here to talk Sox baseball and trust me, I have better things to do than go around randomly pissing people off. If I were I would be attacking people personally but Im not. Rememeber that you guys are the ones that are offended at what Ive said about Dye. It's not like I attacked you guys. For the record. Out of Thome, Paulie and Dye, Dye is the one I would want to keep most but since he actually has some trade value he is the most likely to be traded if any of the three were to go. Anyway, this is all a moot point now anyway since the deal looks like it never was a deal in the first place.

QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 10:49 AM) You see, nobody actually disagrees with anything you just said there, except for your bizarre misrepresentations of how people actually feel. Pretty much everybody here understands the trade, all of us know it's a business and that JD's value is peak right now before he starts to decline, but to call JD trash and say good f***ing riddance, that's just... no. On so many levels. He's still one of the most productive corner OFs in the game, until the last month of the season where he completely disappeared he was right behind Carlos Quentin statistically. I saw a stat somewhere that said he's hit more HRs than any other OF the past 3 years. Arguably, he's consistently the best player on the team since he was signed. When I said he wont be missed I wasnt speaking for anyone or everyone for that matter. Just saying I dont think the Sox will miss him. Everyone thought the world was coming to an end when Maggs was let go to FA and thats worked out just fine since then. Kenny will make sure he has something to fill the void. I agree he has been consistent until 08. Saying he has been consistent doesnt say much when there have been players on the team like Thome, Paulie, Swisher, Uribe and so on that have had bad seasons, have been declining or were just not good players at all with the bat (Uribe). It's like comparing a Caddy to a Yugo. QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 10:53 AM) But.But.But. Cant I just cherry pick RISP stats? Why not? You dont think stranding base runners is a bad thing? Should we just sit and marvel at the HR's he's hit in the easiest park to hit HR's in? Sometimes it's better to take the base hit to drive a run or two in instead of waiting for the pitcher to serve up a gofer ball for a 3 run shot.

QUOTE (sayitaintso @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 03:02 AM) He will not be missed by you, but by everyone else, yes. Everyone else? I doubt that. I know alot of Sox fans on other boards that feel the same way. Theres no right or wrong, it's just opinion is all. QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 05:42 AM) How has Thome been under achieving? Ever since he's been near the top of the list in OPS for DH's every since he's been here and we've only been paying him around $8 million for each season. I assume you rather pay Travis HGHafner $13 million a year to see his OPS drop 200 points each season? You havent seen his numbers declining over the past few years? QUOTE (lostfan @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 07:57 AM) You're pretty much speaking only for you, but definitely not me as a Sox fan Never said I was speaking for you... QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 08:17 AM) This floored me. It's not like he drove in the winning run in the 8th inning to win the world series or anything like that. If you aren't going to miss JD, you are not a White Sox fan. The man has done just as much for our franchise in the last 100 years as almost anyone in our history. JD will be missed greatly, and I will hate to see him in another uniform. Im not a Sox fan if I wont miss JD? Thats even more absurd than what I said. I've been a Sox fan for over 30 years so dont make your self look stupid by saying such things. I dont have favorite players because in this day and age players almost never stay with the same team so I dont bother getting attatched because sooner or later they will be gone. I put the Sox first and foremost above any player that plays for them because the Sox will still be there long after players have gone and I will still be a fan regardless so in essence I am a bigger Sox fan than you now arent I. The team is called the Chicago White Sox, not the Chicago Dye's. So what you're saying is Dye is worth the 11M+ he will make because he drove in the game winning run 3 years ago? Please... This game is about what the players do for a team now, not what they did 3 years ago. I never said that Dye had'nt done good things. Dye was horrbile with RISP last year and has lost a few steps in the OF. Sure he still has the arm but he no longer has the legs to play a good RF. You cant have a middle of the order bat hitting .210 with RISP and 2 out or hitting .269 with less than two out. You mean to tell me those numbers are worth 11M+ per year? Thome, Paulie and Dye were the biggest reasons our offense was so inconsistent last year. If they werent hitting HR's they had a hell of a time driving runs in with simply getting a single. Since these guys were part of the problem, would'nt it make sense to get rid of a guy like Dye who is still worth something? Were already stuck with Paulie due to his contract and only have Thome for hopefully one more year so Dye is the player that needs to go in order to try and get more production from the middle of the order. Hell, if up to me all three would be traded. It's nice to reflect back on what he has done for the team but that was then and this is now. Time to move on and put Carlos in RF.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 8, 2008 -> 02:27 AM) What on Earth are you talking about? After CQ, Dye was our biggest producer. For reference, he batted .269 with RISP (.210 RISP w/2 out). He couldn't drive in runs? .292/34/96 on a station to station team begs to differ, not to mention he was 2nd in the AL in extra base hits, something the White Sox sorely lacked. To say good riddance to Jermaine Dye is just despicable and classless. Class is over rated but I would agree that Im despicable and so was the production of the 4-7 batters in the order which is the point here. I watched every game and saw Dye as well as the rest of the middle of the order leave runner after runner stranded on base. The .210 average was with two and thats my mistake for not pointing that out. At least you understood what I was getting at. The .269 with less than two out isnt much better and below league average. With guys like OC and Carlos getting on base Dye should have easily led the team in RBI and didnt despite Carlos missing almost the entire month of Septemeber. Call it what you want and make any excuse you want but I call call it flat out pathetic. One more thing. It's not what you hit but when you hit it. Dye didnt hit much when the Sox really needed him to and thats the point. If this rumor is true he will NOT be missed.

Ummm guys. It's looking like the deal isnt a deal after all so why the hype? If it turns out to be true then I have no problem trading Dye for Bailey straight up. Dye and his whopping .210 average with RISP will not be missed. Besides, despite Dye having a decent 08 season he was one of the problems (Thome, Swisher, Paulie, Dye) that couldnt drive runs in so I dont see what we would be missing if Dye's over paid ass was traded. If this rumor is true then I say good f***ing riddence and see if Cinci would be interested in Paulie and Thome too. Im sick of seeing multi millionaires under achieving. If were going to have s***ty production then let it be from some younger kids that are eager to play. The middle of the order sucked to say the least and was flat. Change is needed and it's time for Kenny to take out the trash as he has already started to do with Swisher and Javy. I can only hope there are more trades to follow soon.

Assuming Kenny doesnt sign the likes of Hudson or Furcal which it doesnt look like he will... Go ahead and play Cabrera if he accepts for a few reasons. 1- He can help bridge the gap to Beckham or at least buy some time to help the Sox get a feel for Lillibridge and Getz. 2- We know he can bat lead off or 2nd in the order. Getz and Lillibridge are big question marks. A potential top of the order of some combination of Getz/ Lilli, Owens/ Wise is a very scary thought considering our #1 and #2 hitters would be learning the ALC pitchers together while batting ahead of our best hitter in Carlos. At least OC gives us a proven #2 hitter and that would leave only the lead off spot open to one of the youngsters instead of two. 3- Should one of the youngsters show they are ready or the Sox fall out of contention they can use Cabrera as trade bait at the deadline for a minor leaguer or two that would be closer to being ready than the two spects we get as compensation in the draft. I really dont like OC but it's not like he wont help the team either so if he accepts it would be fine with me. Plus having two youngsters in Getz and Fields playing the same infiled could be scary as well.