Pumpkin Escobar

Not anything real - just a thought. I know we shouldn't be or probably are not looking to deal right now but rumblings of Dotel have been going on for sometime now. Do you think we could net a Brandon Wood from the Angels. I wouldnt even mind kicking Fields in. Idk if they'd offer arbitration to Dotel or not - odds could be slim but they can afford him if he accepts. Idk just a thought as I saw something on tv about the Angels desperately seeking bullpen.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) Clearly you'd have to make sure that he's open to coming to Chicago but Halladay doesn't strike me as a complainer and even if you did have to trade him you would be able to get a lot of value for him or should. And if he walks a year from now, you will expect to get 2 picks as compensation. Hmm interesting point you bring up. If he exercises that clause and demands his trade or he becomes a FA immediately like Javy did with Zona. Do we still have the option of offering Arbitration and getting compensation picks or no? ANyone have that answer?

QUOTE (son of a rude @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:59 PM) He is already 28 though. I don't think he will get much better than he is now. I find Aaron Poreda somewhat expendable too, considering Dan Hudson and Dexter Carter are looking like studs. The only person I am hesitant on giving up is Clayton. He has good stuff and has pitched pretty well the past couple games, but we would be getting Doc frickin Halladay. I would be all for this trade. I kind of disagree just about the Alexi part. I think if he wakes up and learns how to make it to the bag in time for double plays and not make errors - he is aleady better. When he is at his best - he is a freak. Problem is - he is just so inconsistent. I'd like to see a full season of that in his prime. I'd enjoy it. For Halladay though - I can handle it.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:56 PM) The one thing I'm not too fond of with the Halladay situation is you only have him for a season and a half. He is going to test the free agent market after 2010. Thats why I really liked the Peavy deal at the time, and the same with Dan Haren. The window for this team isn't just next year, it should be for the next few. extension window before trade? He also has the Javy V clause where he can demand a trade right away or become a FA in March.

I love Alexi and I'd hate to have my frustrations be the reason to give up on him. He is still only in his 2nd year in the US and 1st at SS here. He has some learning to do yet but I'd be ok moving him for Doc. I'd miss him but the Doc is worth it.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:17 PM) So the Cubs are talking to their minor league team, the Pirates, again? Sounds like it. We should work something out with Washington early and maybe theyll deal us Strasberg and Harper in a few years.

Sounding like it isn't Alonso - which if that is the case. Go get him. Unless they want to dump Votto.

QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:42 PM) Hate to break it to you. I wouldnt have seen many teams giving up an Alderson for Sanchez. The only thing I could possibly see as a reason why it isn't worht it for those teams to make a deal for a Dye, Jenks, or Dotel is they don't want to offer arb to get the draft pick compensation. That is the only thing I can see holding these deals up. As much as you like to think certain guys arent worth certain players - having expiring contracts or compensation - especially type-A means a lot to clubs. If they deal 1 good looking player for a Vet who can carry them into the playoffs then have a chance 2 draft 2 more young studs? Please. It's worth it. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:00 PM) You didn't say anything about the economy. And who cares if these trades happened in the past? We are not in the past, they will not happen now. Nobody will give up a top-flight prospect for 2 months of Dye or Dotel when they can't offer him arbitration. You're right...I didn't say economy. I should've specified more. I sometimes comment on so many threads I lose my train of thought or just assume it's already been voiced where i don't need to repeat myself for those like yourself. But you're right. i thought I said economy and I must not have. That is the only thing hindering these kind of deals.

If it's Alonso - I'll laugh. Horrible deal for them and why wouldn't we have dumped Dye on them already - take fields too.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:53 PM) Hate to break it to you...but NOBODY will be offering arbitration to Dye/Thome/PK, which means no draft picks Impressive. I said the economy will be a reason why they won't offer it or that scares me during this process. If someone is willing to do pay arbitration, then they'll do it. If not - then obviously they won't make the deal. Any other set of years - these trades happen. Even now they happen. I don't care if Aldersons stuff is down a little - he still was a big name guy And for the 100th time - only Dye and Dotel are Type-A this season who are FA. Konerko is under contract and Thome isn't Type-A last I saw.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:09 PM) According to Keith Law, Alderson's stuff has deteriorated to the point where he thought it was a fair deal. So you are saying if you were a GM of another team, you would have no problem giving up your top prospects for Thome, Dye, Dotel, Contreras or Jenks? Do you understand how draft pick compensation works? The team would have to offer the players arbitration to be eligible for the draft picks. If you were the GM that means Thome would be offered at least $11 million, and he would have to turn it down. The White Sox free agents to be are looking at sharp reductions in salary except for maybe Dye, but I don't know if I would want to pay Dye $12 million next year. So the draft pick compensation thing isn't going to work. No Thome doesn't qualify. Nor does Contreras. The other 3. If I felt that adding one of those 3 put me into the World Series, and I had intentions of offering Arb then Yes I do it. If I don't have intentions of it - then I don't. Which is why I said the economy is one of the problems with this occuring this year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:31 PM) What type of prospects if you were the GM of another team would you be willing to trade for Thome or Dye or Dotel or Contreras or Jenks? Remember it is a business like you mentioned and that you have to honor their contracts and in Jenks case, he's arb eligible? When you answer that, put those types of prospects in the White Sox organization and tell me how those players will help the White Sox win the WS next season? Also keep in mind when you are mentioning money savings, the White Sox have not given another teams' free agent more than $20 million since December of 1996. Chances are they aren't signing one. Then look at next year's free agent list. Its pretty ugly. Figgins may have some interest, but he's getting older, has had injury problems in the past and has come up big during his contract year. It seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Hate to break it to you. I wouldnt have seen many teams giving up an Alderson for Sanchez. The only thing I could possibly see as a reason why it isn't worht it for those teams to make a deal for a Dye, Jenks, or Dotel is they don't want to offer arb to get the draft pick compensation. That is the only thing I can see holding these deals up. As much as you like to think certain guys arent worth certain players - having expiring contracts or compensation - especially type-A means a lot to clubs. If they deal 1 good looking player for a Vet who can carry them into the playoffs then have a chance 2 draft 2 more young studs? Please. It's worth it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 12:10 PM) But people aren't going to look at it that way. They didn't look at the 98 trades that way either. They are going to look at it as the Sox quitting again on a season where they were right there. It would be a PR disaster and would lead to a fall in attendence, which would lead to a slash in payroll. Unfortunately - that is something I can't debate. As much as I feel things would be different dealing off veterans and having some great young guys already up to look forward to. I can't argue it wouldnt take some form of a PR hit. Which is a shame because people would rather be stubborn and watch a team semi-playoff caliber coast to a 3rd place finish 8 games back then put together another World Series Caliber team for next season. It's the truth. Unfortunately too many people don't realize how much of a business this is and sometimes should be treated like one.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 11:50 AM) You missed the point. The previous poster said the team was only capable of "small streaks", which clearly is not the case. You're absolutely right. I missed that.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 10:35 AM) Pumpkin...you said it yourself: 90% of the time they are better than us. That leaves 10% and that is huge. That's why we watch sports. George Mason, AZ Cardinals, the run of wild cards going to and making the WS. When you have nothing to lose because "everyone is better," sometimes you play looser. Remember the 116 win Mariners? What did they do inthe playoffs? Nuthin. Look, I'm not saying the Sox are going to win the WS...or even make the playoffs, but everyone is basically 0-0 when the playoffs start. So, go on a run and see what can happen. That being said: Giants are doing exactly what we are talking about. Trying to get into the playoffs any way they can. If I said 99% of the time would you have still said that? haha. And not to keep beating it over the head but those teams u mentioned. They didn't win it all. I have no doubt this team can make it to the playoffs if things start clicking. We did that last year and exited immediately. That sucks. The excitement is fun for the few days youre in then reality sets in that we were ill prepared, out of our league and then its not so fun.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 11:26 AM) The players exchanged might have been a win for the Sox, but the PR damaged lasts still to this day. For that reason alone the trade was a disaster and will not be repeated unless the Sox are a long way out of first place. Sox fans aren't exactly the type of people that will buy tickets today based on the team maybe being good in 2012. People should keep that in mind with the meltdown comments and ideas. The thing with our club though that is different from other teams who firesale is we have a good core of players we arent going to trade. Dealing a Dye or a Jenks and a dotel/thome is only going to improve our club/farm. Because we have the money to spend unlike most teams who have firesales. So losing Dye could potentially net us 2 good guys who can contribute in 1-3 years but that money can improve something else. Or those prospects we get can enable us to deal them/or our other prospects for other talented players. When you firesale - it doesnt have to be for 5 years from now. We can move these guys and be favorites next season by spending their money wisely to fill holes and then have a loaded farm incase we need to add from there.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 11:13 AM) Our 24-18 record since early June says otherwise, and that INCLUDES the losing 6 of 7. Before that it was 23-12, in a streak that lasted over a month, which is not a "small" streak. The season is made of streaks. Before that - we werent 23-12. We were nearly opposite at some points. You can pick out spots of brilliance with everything or negatives with everything. Eventually you have to look at the whole body of work. That says we are the 3rd best team in the Central because we are in 3rd and cant beat the 2 teams in front of us. Or most the teams remaining on our schedule for that matter.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 11:05 AM) I agree that we probably won't make it and that our roster would be more competitive two years from now if Kenny dealt Dye, Thome, Jenks, and Dotel within the next 24 hours. The problem is that holding another firesale while three games out at the end of July would be the worst business decision that the Sox ever made. It would be White Flag II, and the franchise might never fully recover this time. I agree. It's a catch 22. But it's not the smart business move either to not try and improve your club if you are out of it. I'd hate to be in our shoes as a GM. Well, I wouldn't mind it all actually because I'd flip things a lot but I am sure I'd be fired. Teams like Cleveland - who's players are much younger and in some cases better then our "veterans" are dealing off guys. They're situation sounds worse then ours as they cant afford their contracts so I am sure we can survive ours. The original White Flag also was dealing who Alvarez? He was 27 I think. Much different then dealing a 12 million dollar a year OF or Dh. Same with Fernandez - he was 33 I think. Danny Darwin or someone was part 3. The deal wasnt horrible either in retrospect and if the Sox can acquire a better package for some of the guys theyd be moving. They should do it if things don't start looking up. At least try and put a couple through waivers to make a deal.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 10:56 AM) I think our pitching is better than the Yanks. The only concern I have is Jenks in the 9th. You can beat Rivera once in a blue moon, but Jenks is a concern lately everytime he takes the mound with the game on the line. I think they have a better 1-2, maybe 3 depending on your take of Joba and lucky for us - we are matching up with them with ours so hopefully we can shut them down. The rest of the staff is in our favor.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 10:48 AM) Exactly We have a great shot at it. The matchups are somewhat in our favor. Floyd is pitching great and can bump Pettitte. Richard>Mitre if he pitches as he has been. Danks against Burnett will be tough but at least we'll stand a chance. Same with MB vs. CC. Just seeing how theyre like 9-1 and we are 3-7...Not lookin good. For myself - I know lots of people disagree with selling but I still have confidence in turning it around. Not cuz we are great but because the other teams kinda suck too and we have players who can carry us. I just play the odds and when you see the schedule we have with how poorly we have played - I just prefer taking the safe bet and selling for a change. If we go for it though - I am all in.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 10:34 AM) Considering their history, there's a decent chance the White Sox won't win a WS before Beckham is eligible to become a FA. Using the "we are doomed" logic, perhaps KW should trade him for prospects. I get very pessimistic, and think a lot of players on the White Sox are overrated, not all that good etc...........but not wanting them to try to win when they are 3 out would make me wonder why I even root for them in the first place. Surely, there has to be something more productive to do with your time than following a team when even when they win, it doesn't make you happy. Ya dealing Beckham makes a ton of sense. He is the 33-36 year old guy who is making 12-15 million and won't be with us for the next 10+ years. You're right - he is what we should trade. We are 3 games out. It's not the end of the world. Now maybe "I should stop following the team" as you said since I foresee the possibility that we can be 7 games out by the weeks end and it being too late to sell but much like how I should stop - if you are following the team - you'd realize that we haven't really shown we can beat the Twins, Tigers, Yanks and Sox. We have 34 games against them and another division leader in Anahiem. We have a 7 game road trip to the West which always kills us. I'm all for going for it but past history and our sub-500 record against the AL central, West, East doesn't give me a whole lot of confidence.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 10:27 AM) Difference of opinion...let's just leave it at that... Oh wait, I forgot I was on Soxtalk! haha being Soxtalk - the gloves come off.

QUOTE (jhonnydanks @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 10:15 AM) well played

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 09:57 AM) The White Sox learned their lesson the last time they unloaded when they were 3 games in back of a much better team than the 2009 Detroit Tigers. Besides, other than Dye, there really isn't much for the White Sox to trade that will net you anything better than Jon Adkins. So really you're looking at trading Dye for some prospects, and I believe his option for next season goes up $1 million if he's traded, so considering his age, his range, and finances, the prospects may only be B prospects, or trying to beat Detroit with JD. Thome, Dotel, Linebrink, Contreras, they aren't going to net you can't miss prospects. Pods isn't going to get you much. Well the one thing Kenny has in his pocket with a couple of those guys is that they can give us their "A" prospects because they'll be receiving type-a compensation for them. So I know he won;t get a huge package for some of those guys but if he is smart - he can deal Dye for one top prospect (similar to Sanchez to SF) and possibly even Dotel who is also a Type-A pitcher for some reason. Thats why a team will sell one of their better guys to us for a stretch run. They'll have moveable contracts next season if it fails and they'll get 2 picks for the guys. If Kenny can't get that kind of a haul - then there is no point in trading our Type-A or B players.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 10:03 AM) Ask any GM...get to the post-season and you never know what could happen. And 7 of those gm's every year are wrong. Not including the ones who didn't make it after selling their fanbase on that very same logic.