Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 Kenny: Now is the Time to Acquire Roy Halladay By Jason Gage SoxNet The trade deadline ~24 hours away and the Sox have now lost 5 of 6 since Buehrle's perfect game and now find themselves 3 games back and in need of a spark. Could Roy Halladay be that spark?Full Article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 The Cost: We all know the Jays are asking for premiere major league talent and that no team thus far has been willing to give up it's best prospect/chip (Phils - Drabek, Dodgers - Kershaw, Red Sox - Bucholtz) to get him. It is fairly evident that the Sox won't either (Gordon Beckham). However, the Sox do have a key alternative that might just out-weigh the alternatives that the Phils, Dodgers, and BoSox could offer. Alexei Ramirez. That's right, the same Alexei Ramirez that Sox fans have been irritated with all season. The reality is that scouts and baseball execs like, if not love, Alexei. He has all of the tools of premiere shortstop and has flashed the ability to utilize them at the major league level. The key has just been his consistency, and that shouldn't surprise anyone. After all, he's in just his first full season at shortstop and just his second season in the US. Combine his ability with his contract and you are talking about a very valuable chip. Now add in two of the Sox better major league ready young arms (Richard & Poreda) and you are talking about a package that should intrigue the Blue Jays. Add a John Shelby or Josh Fields as the throw in's and your talking about a package that would net the Jays two young major leaguers (Richard and Ramirez), a top 50 prospect that is near major league ready (Poreda) and either a former top prospect (Fields) in need of a change of scenery or a borderline top 10 prospect with some upside (Shelby). What do you guys think. Do the Jays bite? Would you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:46 PM) What do you guys think. Do the Jays bight? Would you do it? I don't think anyone is trading for Alexei until we know more about his injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) I don't think anyone is trading for Alexei until we know more about his injury. He's still a huge chip. A team wouldn't not trade for him if it is a sprained ankle. Everything coming out of the Sox camp is that he's day to day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot7 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I do it, but I'm not sure the Jays do. It all depends on whether or not another team has better pieces to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I would definitely do that. I guess nix would have to take over at 3rd for the time being (if we moved Gordon to shortstop), but we have Viciedo and Morel there for the future. Edited July 30, 2009 by son of a rude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I love Alexi and I'd hate to have my frustrations be the reason to give up on him. He is still only in his 2nd year in the US and 1st at SS here. He has some learning to do yet but I'd be ok moving him for Doc. I'd miss him but the Doc is worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:51 PM) He's still a huge chip. A team wouldn't not trade for him if it is a sprained ankle. Everything coming out of the Sox camp is that he's day to day. I think that would be a fair trade but I don't do it. It opens up too many holes. We don't know if Becks can play short. We have no 3b if hes moved. I don't think having Nix and Getz full time in the lineup helps. Our offense is struggling and Carlos may not be long for the lineup. As much as I really want Roy, I don't think its smart to trade Alexi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 Obviously there is the potential to make it a greater deal involving Rolen but to me the key ingredient is Halladay and if your serious you work a deal out for him and than maybe do a give or take on anything else. I also believe this is a good starting point and should be the type of offer that gets the two teams talking relatively exclusively. It is a great package when you consider the readiness of the players involved and the potential upside. Maybe a Dex Carter or Hudson ultimately replaces Shelby/Fields. Or maybe the Jays prefer just one of Poreda/Richard and would want a Tyler Flowers instead. Either way its the type of deal that says hey JP, I'm f***ing serious, now lets work the small things out and make Roy a White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I would do it, and I would like to think that the Jays would be intrigued. I would think, however, that Halladay is going nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:56 PM) The one thing I'm not too fond of with the Halladay situation is you only have him for a season and a half. He is going to test the free agent market after 2010. Thats why I really liked the Peavy deal at the time, and the same with Dan Haren. The window for this team isn't just next year, it should be for the next few. extension window before trade? He also has the Javy V clause where he can demand a trade right away or become a FA in March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
son of a rude Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I love Alexi and I'd hate to have my frustrations be the reason to give up on him. He is still only in his 2nd year in the US and 1st at SS here. He has some learning to do yet but I'd be ok moving him for Doc. I'd miss him but the Doc is worth it. He is already 28 though. I don't think he will get much better than he is now. I find Aaron Poreda somewhat expendable too, considering Dan Hudson and Dexter Carter are looking like studs. The only person I am hesitant on giving up is Clayton. He has good stuff and has pitched pretty well the past couple games, but we would be getting Doc frickin Halladay. I would be all for this trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:57 PM) I think that would be a fair trade but I don't do it. It opens up too many holes. We don't know if Becks can play short. We have no 3b if hes moved. I don't think having Nix and Getz full time in the lineup helps. Our offense is struggling and Carlos may not be long for the lineup. As much as I really want Roy, I don't think its smart to trade Alexi. If the Sox didn't run OC out of town we could have probably picked him up for pretty cheap from Oakland. But I think I take my chances because Roy doesn't just help the Sox this season but next, when more salary falls of the books. Plus this trade still leaves you with Viciedo, Flowers, Danks, Hudson, Carter, Mitchell which is still a very legitimate top 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:55 PM) In this scenerio Jas brings up, Alexei having a bum ankle for 10 days is the least of the Jays concerns. And if that is all it is, then great. But I don't think we know that yet. And if I am a GM on another team, I make sure I know for sure, first. And hell yeah I would do that trade, from the Sox perspective. I'm just not sure the Jays would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:59 PM) He is already 28 though. I don't think he will get much better than he is now. I find Aaron Poreda somewhat expendable too, considering Dan Hudson and Dexter Carter are looking like studs. The only person I am hesitant on giving up is Clayton. He has good stuff and has pitched pretty well the past couple games, but we would be getting Doc frickin Halladay. I would be all for this trade. I think Clayton and Alexei are really what make this a special deal. They are young, inexpensive players that are playing pretty key roles on a central contending team and both have upside. They clearly are the top two pieces with Poreda being a very good 3rd piece and the 4th pieces being solid throw-in's that have some upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (son of a rude @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 03:59 PM) He is already 28 though. I don't think he will get much better than he is now. I find Aaron Poreda somewhat expendable too, considering Dan Hudson and Dexter Carter are looking like studs. The only person I am hesitant on giving up is Clayton. He has good stuff and has pitched pretty well the past couple games, but we would be getting Doc frickin Halladay. I would be all for this trade. I kind of disagree just about the Alexi part. I think if he wakes up and learns how to make it to the bag in time for double plays and not make errors - he is aleady better. When he is at his best - he is a freak. Problem is - he is just so inconsistent. I'd like to see a full season of that in his prime. I'd enjoy it. For Halladay though - I can handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:56 PM) The one thing I'm not too fond of with the Halladay situation is you only have him for a season and a half. He is going to test the free agent market after 2010. Thats why I really liked the Peavy deal at the time, and the same with Dan Haren. The window for this team isn't just next year, it should be for the next few. I agree, but older pitchers might be more willing to sign 3 year extensions in the off-season, which ultimately would give you 4 more years and in this current climate it might make a lot of sense to use Contreras money on Roy or at least see what you can do. I'm not saying you make the offer now, but say you make the playoffs and than go on a post-season run I think you could make a very good pitch to keep him here. He stayed in Toronto a long time and I think being part of a team that contends every year would be quite fun for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 01:59 PM) extension window before trade? He also has the Javy V clause where he can demand a trade right away or become a FA in March. Clearly you'd have to make sure that he's open to coming to Chicago but Halladay doesn't strike me as a complainer and even if you did have to trade him you would be able to get a lot of value for him or should. And if he walks a year from now, you will expect to get 2 picks as compensation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 WTF is bight?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pumpkin Escobar Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) Clearly you'd have to make sure that he's open to coming to Chicago but Halladay doesn't strike me as a complainer and even if you did have to trade him you would be able to get a lot of value for him or should. And if he walks a year from now, you will expect to get 2 picks as compensation. Hmm interesting point you bring up. If he exercises that clause and demands his trade or he becomes a FA immediately like Javy did with Zona. Do we still have the option of offering Arbitration and getting compensation picks or no? ANyone have that answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Pumpkin Escobar @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 02:13 PM) Hmm interesting point you bring up. If he exercises that clause and demands his trade or he becomes a FA immediately like Javy did with Zona. Do we still have the option of offering Arbitration and getting compensation picks or no? ANyone have that answer? Had the Dbacks not requested his trade than he would have became a free agent. But Halladay wouldn't just be able to become a FA at seasons end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) I'd definitely do the proposed deal you mentioned Gage. A 2010 rotation of Buehrle, Halladay, Danks, Floyd, and a rookie in the 5 spot is pretty damn solid. However, I still feel we need more offensive help this year to compete. Edited July 30, 2009 by BearSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 WTF is bight?? Apparently that word is in his dictionary but not "their." Did the Jays already said they won't grant a window for discussion of an extension? Besides, the trade deadline is less than 24 hours away so what good would a 72 hour negotiation be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2009 Author Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 02:23 PM) Apparently that word is in his dictionary but not "their." Did the Jays already said they won't grant a window for discussion of an extension? Besides, the trade deadline is less than 24 hours away so what good would a 72 hour negotiation be? No team has asked for one yet and the Jays have made no comments on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2009 -> 04:05 PM) And if he walks a year from now, you will expect to get 2 picks as compensation. I don’t make this trade. The Sox are giving up too much for a guy who’s under contact for only one more season. I understand the picks are nice to have, but it will take several years for them to become valuable if at all. Plus you’re giving up two key pieces to our major-league team in Richard and Ramirez. Who replaces Alexei? Nix? That’s a huge drop-off offensively IMO. Not to mention you’ve traded away your best two options for a second left-hander in the pen come playoff time. If you’re serious about competing, then you need to acquire a legitimate 3B or SS to replace Alexei and a lefty for the pen. That’s going to cost us even more young talent. Considering how old our current core, it doesn’t seem like wise to trade it all. I’d make one last offer to the Blue Jays. Flowers, Poreda, Hudson and Fields for Halladay. That’s three of our top 5 prospects plus an intriguing throw-in. There is very little chance the Jays accept that trade, but I doubt they’ll get a better one. This Halladay situation reminds me of the Mark Teixeira scenario. Two deadlines ago, the Rangers had tons of leverage since Mark was locked up for another season and demanded a huge package for him. The Braves eventually gave their top 4 prospects to acquire him. The next season when the Braves faded out of contention, they traded Teixeira for Casey f***ing Kotchman. Texas played it smart by taking the best offer knowing Mark’s value would only decrease. If the Jays don’t move Halladay by tomorrow, I really think they’re going to regret it for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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