Thad Bosley

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 07:55 AM) A) your whole argument with SS2K is based on the notion that trading Sale will result in more wins next season which will lead to an increase in attendence so yes you did actually say it without saying it. If you don't think the Sox will win more games next season by trading Sale then why are you even arguing? B) of course you left out Fowler and I stand by my opinion that these 4 acquisitions plus an improved bullpen absolutely put the Sox in a position to compete next season. Already stated this before but the Sox are 7-20 when Ranaudo/Shields/Danks start. Give me an average starter in place of these dopes and that results in a 13-14 record in those games (not asking for much). Consequently, the team is 6 wins better with just that one move: 76-68 or 3 GB of the wild card. Again, that's just addressing 1 spot on the 25 man roster while leaving the rest untouched. Actually, I said no such thing. Go back and read a little bit closer. I never said trading Sale would result in more wins next season. Never said that once. What I said was attendance would not go down with a trade of Sale IF the team turned things around and started playing winning baseball next year. Another poster said attendance was going to go down no matter what in the event Sale was traded, and I simply countered that winning baseball would prevent that from happening. Big difference.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 06:11 AM) I am nothing like the typical Sox fan. I don't require years of winning to go to games. Mmmmmmmmm..."years of winning". Wonder what that's like! Would be great to find out, wouldn't it!

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 06:46 AM) I went to about 10 games this year. I usually go about 8-10 times. I haven't gone lately because I coach HS football but if they were in the race I would have found more time to go. I'll probably go to the same amount of games with Sale or without next year unless they are in the race late in the season. If they are somehow, I'll find my way to more games. This is precisely my point. Thank you, Voice of Reason! Sox fans will not go to fewer games if Sale gets traded, and if the Sox actually find a way to turn it around and start winning next season and are in the race, they'll actually go to more games. It really is that simple, folks.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 14, 2016 -> 05:32 AM) To think a full rebuild will result in immediate success (I.e. more wins than this season) is one of the sillier arguments I have seen on here in some time. Also, DA and SS2K are absolutely right in that a Sale trade would signal full rebuild to the fans and absolutely negatively impact attendence and overall fan interest next season even if they get a package of Moncada and Benintendi in return. Moncada has struck out in his last 8 at-bats. If that happened in a White Sox uni combined with an OPS in the Carlos Sanchez range over an entire season, which wouldn't be surprising for a kid just getting his feet wet in the big leagues, that's sure to get Sox fans excited and out to the ballpark. Well, two things: a.) did anyone actually even say that in this thread? and b.) the silliest argument was the one put forth suggesting the additions of Matt Wieters, Edinson Volquez and Mitch Moreland would somehow transform this currently bad team into one that could compete to win the division. Now THAT was SILLY!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 08:03 PM) You are fooling yourself if you think that is typical. And people are fooling themselves if they think Sox fans will stay home next season if they start playing winning baseball in Sale's absence. Fans like yourself aren't going to change your behavior in terms of how many games you typically attend no matter how the Sox play if and when Sale is gone. Imagine what's going to happen if they start winning. Do you even remember what that feels like? And Sox fans, after watching all of the excitement around the Cubs and how much fun their fans are having will heartily embrace the next Sox winning team. It's only human nature. Now to just get the team back to winning ways to prove this all out!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 07:56 PM) Probably around the same. I am not changing my package, they treat us like kings, and I love going to games. Makes total sense. Sale leaving wouldn't impact your behavior as a Sox fan. The game and team always bigger than any one player.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 07:52 PM) Does that include dogs on the roster? Most of the dogs (i.e., dumpster dives from last offseason) didn't even make it into September. Rollins, Latos, Jackson, Navarro, Lawrie - all long gone.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 07:27 PM) I thought this was pretty obvious, but I am not the entire White Sox fan base. Those numbers are out there, and tell a pretty clear story. You seem like the typical Sox fan out there, so I expect the base, like you, won't alter their approach to attendance next year no matter what happens with Sale.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 07:22 PM) How will it differ for you? Remember, you can't tell if the season was exciting or not until after the World Series. Not at all actually, thanks for asking. I'll go to the typical three games I make it to when I make my three typical visits to Chicago next summer. I can tell you that number won't be lower if Sale is, in fact, traded. Now how about you, Dick? More games next year or fewer if Sale is traded? Going to pull back on that season ticket package if they trade Sale? According to the thinking of some, that is pretty much the inevitable outcome.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 07:11 PM) The same. Not fewer? But what if Sale is traded? You said attendance will absolutely go down if he's not in a Sox uni next year, yet it's not going to change your behavior at all. A bit of a disconnect here, to say the least. I think we can conclude if you, a White Sox fan, won't go to fewer games than you did in this past brutal season if Sale is traded, neither will other Sox fans

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:53 PM) This is pretty straight forward. There will be a fall off in attendance after a Sale trade. Even if by some miracle, the Sox return pays some sort of instant dividends, recent history dictates that Sox fans probably wouldn't jump on to the bandwagon with any sort of speed. Maybe if they won in '17 and kept winning in 18, attendance would go up then, but then again, probably not. Even in a season like 2008, where they won a division, attendance fell off over the previous year. Even in a season like 2012, where they were in first place until the last two weeks, attendance fell. Add in the factor that a good portion of the bandwagon section of the fanbase will be angry because they traded their best player. SS2K5, do you think you'll go to more games or fewer games next year if the Sox trade Sale but all of a sudden start playing winning baseball?

QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 04:01 PM) The flaw I see here is the idea that the Sox would get seasoned major league talent in return. That is probably the only way they could play well enough to turn fans heads in April/May 2017, resulting in significant attendance growth over the ensuing months. A trade of Sale may include 1-2 MLB ready players talent-wise, but they will likely have growing pains at best, and several of the new players will also turn out to be busts. That may entice hardcore fans to tune in more, but not enough to make up for the loss of Sale or the disappointment of 2016. MLB attendance is typically driven by prior year performance, and the Sox will not be the exception to that rule. You bring up good points. Still, if the players they acquire in the offseason rebuild do click with the current young Sox like Rodon, Anderson and Fulmer, resulting in a winning season like the ones in 1990 and 2000, attendance will go up. After these past four seasons of brutal ball played by the Sox, the base is very hungry for something to be excited about, and will respond accordingly if the Sox turn it around next year and start winning.

1-0 Sox, Abreu RBI #93

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 04:01 PM) Any old ace will do. The Sox fans want to trade,2 basically. All that,will do for you Thad, is even though they will do exactly what you want, it pretty much guarantees you a few more years of griping about Reinsdorf. Perfect for you Ahhh, the quality you contribute to the discussions around here just sometimes extends beyond all expectations. No, really - nice work there. Keep up the good work, 'ol chum!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 03:29 PM) Can someone provide some examples of teams trading their ace and it translating to instant more success? You mean an ace Sale's age AND an ace with the type of team-friendly contract he has and the years left of control? Don't know if that example exists.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:56 PM) I don't need to build in exceptions. If the Sox trade Sale, attendance will go down. Winning baseball >>>>>>> Presence of any one ballplayer, even Chris Sale Remember, there is no correlation with good attendance while Sale has been on the team. Attendance has been lousy in each season he's been here. Winning baseball, on the other hand, does have a track record with good attendance for the team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:45 PM) I already see you built in an excuse to get out of it. Like I said, its simple. If Sale is gone, attendance will fall. Period. I haven't built in anything. I was clear from the beginning that if they traded Sale for a bag of balls and nothing improves on the field, sure, attendance will either stay at the same miserable level its at, or possibly get worse. My point from the start is that if they get the kind of talent it at least appears they will, and that translates to better results on the field (i.e., MORE WINNING), then attendance goes up. That's what's simple. Period. That is the offer. Take it or leave it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) If he was really that confident he wouldn't be ignoring my offer. That's OK, I think he knows the truth and is just arguing for argument's sake. [Eye roll followed by exhausted sigh] Ok, SS2K5. You're on. Put yer George Washington's on the table. Borrow some from Dick Allen if you have to. On behalf of Thad Bosley LLP, I accept this compelling offer of yours re: 2017 attendance. If the Sox trade Sale and in the process bring back the kind of elite talent one would expect in a deal for him, and if the result is better play and more winning next year, then attendance will go up. Simple as that.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) Yeah, Sox fan history totally doesn't agree with you. Look back at White Flag where team attendance fell by 25% year over year. Take a look at 2012 and 2008 where the team was in the playoff race both seasons, and attendance still fell year over year. To me this is a much more realistic lesson on what to expect than some imaginary scenario where the Sox get immediately better from trading their best player, and for some reason Sox fans realize it before day one and still show up. Again, I am willing to put money on it. If the Sox trade Chris Sale, their attendance will fall in 2017. Period. End of story. No qualifiers. No imaginary what if scenarios. 1990 and 2000 called and said "Hey, SS2K5! Check us out if you want to see how Sox fans respond, attendance-wise, to a new, young winning team! We will take your money any day of the week!"

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) I am not going to play the what if game. I don't feel the need to hide behind imagined scenarios. If Chris Sale is traded, attendance will fall in 2017. You can take me up, or try to imagine scenarios. The choice is up to you. There are no imagined scenarios, but rather two actual ones which can occur. The Sox will be better without Sale, or worse. If they are better and win more, which there is a good chance of this happening if they obtain the kinds of players they've been rumored to be interested in, then attendance goes up. Fans are far more interested in winning than the presence of any one player. If they play worse, then attendance could go down, but you wonder how much farther down it can actually go, y'know?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) I will put money on it right here and now. If the White Sox trade Chris Sale this winter, their attendance for the 2017 season will be less than 2016. I'm gonna shock the bejeezus outta ya and take a completely different take. I say that winning trumps Sale's presence on the team. You might have had me if, for example, there were 40,000 people packed into the park on night's Sale pitched, but obviously that hasn't been the case. The overall malaise around the team caused by the playoff drought and the recent losing seasons has taken the shine off of having a talent such as Sale on the team, which explains the team's continued attendance problems. That's why the time has come for a clean slate, and hopefully by trading Sale at his maximum value will result in bringing in some new and exciting talent that will produce better results for the team on the field, and then ultimately for the team at the gate.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 12:44 PM) If the Sox trade Chris Sale, their attendance will go down in 2017. No question about it. Even if the team plays better, wins more, and is more exciting to watch overall as a result of the new players obtained? Attendance will go down, you think?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Trading Chris Sale isn't going to put more people into the outfield stands. In fact it will do the opposite for the short term, at least. If they get the kind of MLB ready-elite type talent like what has been rumored to be coming the team's way in any deal for Sale, who will improve the team's overall chances at success (i.e., the whole point of trading Sale at this time), then there will inevitably be more fans in the stands as the results of the team improve.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) So depending on the day, the White Sox either are not worthy of Chris Sale's services, or Sale is such an embarrassing hot head, he needs to be dealt away. Well, it's actually not either your "either" or your "or" here. It's the fact he unfortunately needs to get traded in order to convert him into a different set of assets that will hopefully begin to reverse course for this rapidly sinking franchise. How many people did you count in the outfield stands last night? I counted 12. Something significantly different needs to be done this offseason, and trading Sale is at the top of that list.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 12, 2016 -> 11:25 AM) Chris Sale on reaching 200+ strikeouts four consecutive seasons: “But there’s not a single part of me that wouldn’t give all that to be in the playoffs four years in a row.’’ This is absolutely killing him. Mark Sale said at the beginning of the season that he had yet to play in one meaningful game in his career, obviously referring to zero appearances in the postseason thus far in his career with the White Sox. It's a similar line of thinking with those of us who equate true exciting baseball with playoff appearances, not just settling for a nice run at it in the regular season.