Thad Bosley

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:59 AM) Because when you have Sale and Quintana, there is always a chance you might hit on someone and you still have Sale and Quintana. Trading them could result in the Jesus Monteros, Logan Morrisons of the world. You, and the rest of us would be even more unhappy then. If you don't think these dopes can project players with MLB experience, it is kind of crazy to think they would be good at doing something even harder. Projecting players with no MLB experience. Although I once worked at a place that if you really wanted a promotion, failing at your job was the quickest path. They even once laid a woman off and found her a better paying job. Any other possible outcomes other than these couple of cherry picked bad trades from over the years you are reminding us of?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 10:17 PM) Build a complete pitching staff somehow. Fire Robin, hire Leyland, fire Cooper and get a pitching coach who believes in 7 innings from his starters minimum. Pitching, pitching, pitching, defense, defense, defense. You sure you want to settle for Leyland, what with Whitey Herzog and Jack McKeon just out there for the taking?

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 11:26 AM) What? Retooling with guys like Wieters, Moreland, Volquez is not rocket science. These guys are known commodities and have shown they can succeed in the AL. They are also guys that will not require excessive long term, high dollar commitments that can make or break the future of the franchise. Trading all of our vets for a bunch of prospects is something else altogether. If we are going that route, I'd prefer to do it with a different front office. If you screw that up you really can break the franchise much worse than it is currently broken. How well has the rebuild worked for the twins since 2010? They are still 2-3 years away from fielding a competitive team in the best case scenario, which is still no guarantee. Not all can't miss prospects turn out to be stars - just ask the twins about their one time #1 overall prospect in baseball Byron Buxton. MAYBE he will be an all star by the team he reaches free agency but MAYBE he will be a fourth outfielder too. The irony here is that you are willing to trust this front office with a job that they have a poor established track record on, i.e., retooling, but are unwilling to trust them with a job like rebuilding for which we actually don't know how good they'd do at such a thing.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) That's your opinion. Mine is that roster can be competitive. If not, unload at next year's deadline. I'm willing to wait the first 4 months of next season to let it play out and clearly the front office is as well. Eh, I wouldn't be so sure about that. The combination of Reinsdorf's somewhat kryptic yet telling comment about how the first couple of moves this offseason will clearly show the direction the club is going in with the reports back in late July about how White Sox scouts were scouring the Red Sox farm system to "lay the ground for possible offseason" trades indicates to me we are at the end of the road on the retooling game.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 07:24 AM) Wieters would be a significant upgrade over Navarro and Volquez would be a significant upgrade over Danks/Shields/Ranaudo. Did I ever say they are all star caliber? No, well I suppose Wieters did make it this year due to a strong first half. I'm not asking for all star performance out of those guys but even serviceable would be a vast improvement over the black holes we have had at those two spots this season. And yes, with the addition of Burdi, Putnam, Petricka, and possibly one other arm via trade or free agency I expect the bullpen to be much better next year. It also helps when your fifth starter doesn't completely destroy your bullpen every 5 days, this aspect cannot be understated. These aren't the kind of upgrades that will transform this current team into a contender. What you are proposing is same church, different pew from what's been happening through the retooling efforts of recent years, and which would inevitably result next year in yet another year of meaningless, boring baseball on the South Side. Time for a different approach.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 6, 2016 -> 06:40 AM) Considering Dionner Navarro and his negative WAR was our starting catcher for most of the year, Wieters would represent a significant upgrade. Also, Fulmer/Volquez should represent a HUGE upgrade at fifth starter. Consider the fact that the White Sox are 7-19 in games started by Shields, Danks, and Ranaudo (with an ERA around 8). For the sake of discussion I'm going to call that three headed monster the "fifth starter." Wouldn't even need a stud filling that spot but league average and this team is 5 or 6 wins better. I also expect the bullpen to be much better next year which I think can account for another 3-4 wins. Really not asking for much here and that's a ~10 win improvement if everything else stays the same. So Wieters and his .683 OPS, Volquez with his 1.47 WHIP, and some magical 3-4 game improvement by the existing cast in the bullpen will be what turns this 76 win team into an 86 win team? Ok, if that's the direction you'd like the team to go in. Meanwhile, some of the rest of us prefer a cease-and-desist on launching another failed retooling exercise and instead move in the direction of trying to successfully execute a full rebuild. It's time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) So why would these guys be the guys to tear it all down and start over? Seems that is a bigger disaster waiting to happen than adding middling players hoping it all works out. At least they have Sale and Quintana. Quintana is going on the White Sox cruise in November, so it doesn't appear the Sox think they will trade him. I am going to a season ticket holder event with Hahn tomorrow. I will report if he gives us anything. On the contrary. We've seen them try their hand at "adding middling players hoping it all works out", and it's been a complete disaster. For their efforts on that alone both Hahn and Williams should be shown to the curb, but we know that's not going to happen anytime soon with the way the octogenarian owner is running things these days. What we actually don't know is how Kenny Hahn might handle a "tear it all down and start over" operation. We've never seen them try. Perhaps that's more in their wheelhouse. So as long as we're stuck with them, why not let them have a go at that and see how it goes. Best case scenario they take us from "Point A to Point B", a la Larry Himes from many a moon ago, and then the owner can repeat his own history and bring in someone to get the team to "Point C". Worst case scenario is Kenny Hahn proves to be equally bad at the total rebuild business, at which time Reinsdorf will be ready to sell and then the fan base gets the total clean slate it probably needs in the first place.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 5, 2016 -> 12:02 PM) That's a very dramatic post but still doesn't change my stance that signing a few players this offseason and seeing if it comes together during the first half of 2017 is a good approach. If they are out of the race next July then sure tear it up. The Sox aren't losing any players of value this offseason and guys like Melky and Robertson might both be MORE valuable next July then they were this year or this offseason since they will have less money remaining on their contracts. I see no reason to be in a big rush here. This starting staff is going to be really great next season with the emergence of Rodon and Fulmer and possible addition of a capable #5 starter. Fill the holes in CF, C, and DH and see what happens. Players like Moreland and Wieters are not dumpster dives like Rollins, Latos, Avila, etc. but they will require JR to open the pocketbook a bit wider since they are another tier up. I guess the eight year playoff drought doesn't bother you.

QUOTE (JUSTgottaBELIEVE @ Sep 4, 2016 -> 10:26 AM) And yet none of those guys are free agents until after NEXT season. Why the big rush to dump them this season? I see nothing wrong with holding these guys and making a few acquisitions in the offseason to go for it again. If they are out of the race again next trade deadline then dump them at that time. If they are in the same position again next season and hold guys like Melky until season end with nothing in return, then I will criticize their "all in" approach. Until then I see nothing wrong with signing guys like Moreland, Volquez, Wieters, etc since they won't cost a draft pick nor will they cost big money. Maybe just maybe they catch some breaks and it all comes together like 2005. If not, wave the white flag next July and unload anything of value set to expire at the end of the season. Because the formula with them clearly isn't working, with the Sox well on their way to a second 76/77 win season with those fellas in key positions. And the approach of signing the additional guys who don't "cost a draft pick" or "cost big money", i.e. DUMPSTER DIVE moves, well, how did that work out for us this year. A big NO THANKS to a repeat of 2015 & 2016 in 2017, thank you very much. No, with the Sox YET AGAIN near the bottom of the barrel in both attendance and TV ratings, with a team that plays in a hitter's ballpark like the Cell but YET AGAIN is at the bottom of the league offensively, and most importantly, a team that YET AGAIN has failed to make the postseason for the eighth year in a row, it's time for a change, folks. Time to tear it up! Tear it up! Tear it up! Tear it up! Shake this disaster at its core and let's go in a new direction. Any direction, because it can't be any worse than what the organization has been mired in for far too long now. TEAR IT UP!

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 2, 2016 -> 10:14 AM) For what it's worth I can only tell you what I was told after the trade deadline by two sources, that JR does not want to trade Sale or Quintana and that he wants to "go for it" again next year. Maybe he changes his mind over the winter...we'll see. Mark Go for what with what? A championship with a squad still somewhat resembling THIS team? The team that has looked as bad as the 2013 team by going 40-60 in the 100 games since the fluke start? I mean, what are we talking about here? I'm all for going for it, as this playoff drought and bad baseball of recent seasons is really getting old. But if Reinsdorf & Crew are simply going to go through another round of dumpster dives and try to pass them off as upgrades in the spirit of "going for it", well, that would be rather unfortunate, to say the least.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 2, 2016 -> 07:25 AM) There is still a massive divide between the haves and have nots in baseball, and revenue is the truest division. Small market teams occasionally make it out, but they disappear quickly. I used KC and Pittsburgh as examples before. So they finally did something positive right? Yeah, look at where they are right now. The Chicago White Sox do NOT fall in the category of the "have nots".

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 02:30 PM) The problem is, I have no idea what is possible with Sale or Quintana. They wanted Jackie Bradley Jr. as part of the package. Could they get him in the offseason? But, if I was to trade one of those guys or both, at least part of the return is established major league players. Melky, Frazier, and Lawrie playing for a contract usually works to the teams advantage during the season. They need a starting catcher. Another OF who can hit, maybe a 1B that can at least make Abreu DH once in while. Another reliever or 2. Maybe another back end starter to throw into the mix. And the position players they get, have to be able to hit. It's a lot, but IMO if they are really going to go for it, they have to really go for it. Not hoping someone comes through. They have to be prepared for someone to get hurt or to suck unexpectedly. But trading everybody and getting prospects can set you up to be bad for a really long time. It's not like these other rebuilt teams had several good players they just turned into a bunch of can't miss prospects. Most of them just got really bad and had no choice. All of the bolded has been true for a few seasons now. The plans executed to address those needs continue to fail. Maybe just maybe this management team of Williams and Hahn might be better at a rebuild than they are at figuring out a successful "All In" plan.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 1, 2016 -> 10:35 AM) We haven't seen anywhere near the worst. We didn't go decades without being over .500. We kind of have. The 99 games played since the 23-10 start, which is a pretty decent sample size, shows the Sox playing (or losing, depending on how you look at it) at a 2013-esque level. In fact, I don't know if it's still true or not, but somewhere in the last week or so I saw a report that said the Sox had the worst record in baseball since the 23-10 start - and this with not one but two Cy Young candidates in the starting rotation! That in and of itself tells you how awful the rest of the team is at the moment!

If you are of the mind that the Sox should trade both Q and Sale this offseason and see to maximize an even greater return than what could have been garnered at the trade deadline, then what better moniker to hang around Q's neck than "Cy Young Award Winner". We already know we'd get a king's ransome for Sale as he is by far the better known quantity out there. But you might be able to match that return more easily if Q were to win that reward. It would be the ultimate in selling high on both of them.

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Aug 21, 2016 -> 09:41 PM) I think talent evaluation is as important and sometimes even more important than Draft position. We have had some first round dogs, and I hate to call Fulmer one, but he might become another bust. You go into full tank mode to get a player like that? That's true. He might become another bust. He also might become a mediocre Major League pitcher. Better yet, he might become a star Major League pitcher, maybe even an ace. Anything is possible at this point. He just hasn't been around long enough for any of us to know what the outcome will be. So give him some time before you start setting up his MLB tombstone!

I sent to high school with Victor back from '81-'85. Nice enough guy, and he was the poster child for the ultimate in preppy look back then. Brown boat shoes with no socks, sweater tied around his neck, and there wasn't a collar on an Izod or Ralph Lauren Polo he didn't like to turn up.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 28, 2016 -> 11:48 AM) Bumping because Gary Sanchez was on the Sox radar but Yanks at the time were asking too much for him. Also funny that with Sanchez and Vasquez to talk about Soxtalkers picked the wonderful pitch framer to marvel over. When will you all learn pitch framing is a bull s*** fad that means very little. Umps have wised up to it and its still umpiring strengths and weaknesses that lead to most blown balls and strikes calls. Apparently pitch framing is more fascinating than hitting bombs. Excellent post.

QUOTE (Scoots @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 07:17 AM) Good interview IMO by Hahn. "I wouldn't have taken the general manager position if I didn't think it would be recipe for success...none of us have to be here. We all are here to help bring another championship to Chicago." http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-white-so...olds-plans-2017 How different is this from what Hahn was saying this time last year, this time two years ago, and all the way back to when he was named GM. That's the problem - he and the other two running the show have all of the feel good sound bites down to a tee. Talking the talk they can do. It's the actions to back up these words that they, for whatever reason, have been pretty bad at each and every year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) After being insulted and misrepresented many times, yes I made that observation. And as another one who loves to jump in with those kinds of actions, I am not surprised that you again jumped in to try to take another cheap shot. Ah, ok, thanks for the clarification. You insulted another poster but only because you just reached a breaking point, not that you ever insult other posters. Ok, good. For a moment there I thought a double standard might be in play, but clearly it's not.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 03:07 PM) Ugh. I know you are a lost cause here, but for the sake of clarity. What fans want to do is up to the fans. They can do whatever they want to do. What I have posted about over and over and over again, is the impact that has on the bottom line of the franchise, as compared to other franchises who don't have as high of a transient fan factor as the White Sox do. I can't help if it you and a couple of others want to turn that around, internalize it, and make it a personal thing. The fan base is the fan base. The numbers are all there in black and white. Those are facts that can't be disputed. That absolutely effects how this franchise is run, and the decisions that are made regarding its future. Pretend it doesn't if you like, but that would be wrong. I won't even bother with the irrelevancy of your fan litmus test. Again, and I don't know why this is so hard to understand, but the sweetheart lease deal insulates ownership from poor attendance. You combine those terms with a TV deal that is only $3M away from being in the top ten of baseball, and all of the other revenue streams, and this ball club is more than equipped to be competitive.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2016 -> 11:57 AM) This from the guy who is crying about being called a JR hater for routinely hating on the teams ownership. Yeah, um, ok. Apparently comprehension really is a fleeting skill. At 6:30 a.m. you said this to a poster: "You evidently can't handle a debate without resorting to insults" And then at 12:57 p.m. you said this to that same poster: "Apparently comprehension really is a fleeting skill."

QUOTE (captain54 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 09:01 PM) Nice try, but a...no. The roster has turned over multiple times, yet the status quo of the front office remains. Those involved in throwing something against the wall to see if it sticks, are given opportunity after opportunity, despite the franchise bring stuck in quicksand And let's knock it off with the "Reinsdorf Hater" crap, shall we? I'm one of JR's biggest critics as far the transgressions of the ballclub, but personally I've dealt with JR thru charities and he's one of the nicest guys you could meet. I don't "hate" people unless they've committed some act of atrocity. I'm sure most JR critics feel the same. Of course, I get that you need to paint people into this lunatic box in order to flesh out your narrative. But please, knock it off. It makes you sound like you're in Junior High Yes, accusations that anyone is a "hater" and/or "hates" is reckless and done so in poor form.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 02:39 PM) Unfortunately HOFers weren't available. Jimmy Rollins replaced Alexei Ramirez. How is he doing? They wanted someone short term because Anderson was coming. Austin Jackson was fine in CF. Navarro/Avila replaced Tyler Flowers/Soto. Avi Garcia was supposed to be a bench player, LaRoche retired unexpectedly. Shields was trying to beat the pitching market. If Erik Johnson had shown anything, they don't make that trade. All of those moves could be considered upgrades at the time they were made. Upgrades from very bad to...just bad? Again, addressing your earlier point about the team is "trying not to be mediocre". If these are the "upgrades" they chose to make, when better upgrades were available, then I don't see how your stance on this mediocre business holds water. And oh, one more point on the so-called upgrades. The Sox came in last in offense last year, and the team that you say is trying not to be mediocre brought in the likes of Rollins, Jackson, Navarro/Avila, and Lawrie to address that gaping problem. And they were all ready and set to go with LaRoche again, too. So now that I think about it, you might be right. They weren't trying to be mediocre. They really weren't trying at all, now, were they.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 02:25 PM) I would be one of the first to say in the real world results trump effort. We like to tell our kids that they go hand in hand, and often they do. Sometimes they do not. They are trying to not be mediocre. They haven't done a good job of it. Moving on from KW and RH makes a lot of sense, but it doesn't appear like that is in the cards at least for another year. They signed Jimmy Rollins to be the opening day starting shortstop this year. They signed Austin Jackson to be the starting centerfielder. They signed the two-headed Navarro/Avila monster to be the catching tandem. Avi Garcia has been a starting player, replacing the great Adam LaRoche. They doubled down this summer by acquiring 34 year-old James Shields to be in the starting rotation for the remainder of this year and now for the next two years. Now what was that you were saying about the team "trying not to be mediocre"?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 25, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) You obviously take offense to anything resembling discussion about the fan base. I understand that, as I see people bothered by it all of the time. What it does not change is the truth. The White Sox would not be signing a third rate ballpark naming rights deal if the Sox ownership and management had created a sustainable winning product over the years that would have attracted more fans to the ballpark. They have failed in that capacity to do so, evidenced by the fact the team has only been to the postseason twice in the past 15 years, and therefore ownership and management are reaping what they sow with this "third rate ballpark naming rights deal". I know it hurts your feelings, but it is the honest to god truth. What I have never done is make a judgement of what the fans should or should not do. All of that is the manifestation of someone who is working harder than most at being offended. Fixed