The Sir

In regards to the Penn State scandal, anybody think this has USC like repercussions for us? Say, no postseason for two years? Yes, but not as severe? More severe?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 03:24 PM) f***ing Texas. Greatest state in the United States of America.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 02:36 PM) Michael Moore suggested the rioters were undercover cops too. Wonderful company you have there.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 11:58 AM) No, you are bull-headed because you routinely insult other poster's character as your way of argumentation. Oh bulls***. You guys do the same s***. I don't whine about it because earning the respect and admiration of people I loathe means nothing to me. But y'all do it just like I do. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 10:37 AM) ...and that's the way it usually works. When people agree with you, they tend to say so, or say nothing at all. It's when they disagree that you'll find a dissenting opinion. I don't care if he disagrees with me. That's fine. But if he wants to call me bull-headed because I stick to my opinions every bit as much as he sticks to his, I'm going to call bulls***. I disagree with a lot of people here and I see a lot of people here who post unrelenting liberal stances; I don't think they're bullheaded and single-minded however, because I realize they are simply as convinced of their own righteousness as I am of mine.

I like how consistently disagreeing with the resident fruit makes me bull-headed and single-minded. If I was instead a steadfast liberal, holding such views with the same consistency that I hold conservative ones, he wouldn't say a word. But God forbid someone be consistently conservative, because refusing to submit to the all-knowing genius known as Big Sqwert is a sure sign of unholy bullheaded-ness. Pathetic.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 10:22 AM) Both ways? He/she is probably the most bull-headed, single viewpoint poster on this site. And you're not? That's hilarious.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 08:42 AM) after reading the Deadspin breakdown of what happened, there should be a lot of jobs lost and a lot of charges pressed against the PSU chain of command from JoePa all the way to the AD. They knew what happened as early as 98 and the university continued to associate themselves with Sandusky up until 2007. so f***ed up. I cannot believe the grad assistant didnt do anything when he realized JoePa and Curley were doing nothing. Especially after what he saw As a Penn State grad, this whole thing saddens me. We built a reputation not only on having a pretty damn good football team, but on playing with honor and dignity as well. And now this whole thing comes out? I don't know what to think. We still need to live by "innocent until proven guilty", but it doesn't look good. This is disgraceful.

What's it going to take, Tex, until you admit that the morons are all over the place in this movement and the whole thing needs to just go away? This is getting out of hand. Unless these good people you want to claim exist finally show up and take this thing back, it needs to disappear before people get killed.

QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 09:22 AM) You think its a strawman that I look at the military's issues with sexual assault, hypocrisy , violence, entitlement, greed, drug use, communism/socialism, anti-Americanism, anti-Semitism, ignorance and so forth and consider that to be baggage that absolutely ruins any positive influence and message they might have started with? I could provide multiple examples of each of these. It doesn't surprise me that you'd look fondly at a movement overrun with degenerates, but I'm not going to join you. Using a group that you are familiar with to make my point. Yes, I agree that a group's message becomes weakened when member(s) of the group act in these ways. Every group from fraternities to Churches have members who disgrace their ranks, I just do not think it is reasonable to reject the entire organization based on what some of their members may do. I differentiate that from groups who organize around an ideal or belief that is immoral, illegal, or unethical (NAMBLA, Nazis, etc). The Occupy movement didn't gain momentum around the belief that rape, stealing, violence, drug use, etc was good. This wasn't a Neonazi group suing to march in Skokie. Didn't we go over this already? Any group has good members and bad members. The military, OWS, the Tea Party, etc. And while I agree with you that NAMBLA and Nazis are in a different category, this doesn't mean we can't make negative judgements about groups like OWS. You can take away all the behavior of their worst members (and I've seen plenty of them) but they still lose because they have no clear message. That's why its easy for them to be coopted by groups with unsavory messages. If they want to become legitimate, they need to step up and tell us all why they're out there. You can hate the Tea Party all you want, but its harder for them to be coopted by their worst members because they actually have leadership that puts forth their main principles. But OWS has so far refused to put forth official demands and so it is easier for communists, anarchists and other idiots to claim to be the face of the movement. A solid leadership cadre could also officially denounce the bad behavior by certain sects within the movement. Oh yeah, another thing, the military punishes its degenerates. Try raping someone as a member of the military and see how that turns out for you. But do it as a member of OWS, and your fellow protesters will likely try to prevent your victim from going to the police. Lastly, how many people were raped at Tea Party rallies?

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 08:51 AM) I'm glad you're here, it's nice to see another opposing voice that can see things both ways without having a problem calling people out on either side when they show their lack of logic, hypocrisy, stupidity and/or irrationality. Though as a forewarning, many here will argue that you only see things in a neo-conservative way since they don't agree with you. They'll usually follow up these brilliant opinions/arguments with the words "straw man", "anecdotal" or "lol", without further explanation. This has already happened in this thread a few times. This doesn't apply to all of these people all of the time, however...but I'll warn you now it's hard to have an honest/open discussion here without whacked ideology creeping in that completely ignores reality. Though I have my reservations since you sound quite angry, and while I understand you described that as your "shtick", anger can corrupt an opinion and spin it out of control. Now, I'll recap in case you missed the past around here, because by and large, this is the way it worked out. Many posters, including some of the more liberal minded ones in this thread have at one time or another, posted vast generalizations about how white, religious, stupid and racist the tea party was/is -- often using the very "creative" and demeaning term "teabaggers" -- to both describe and dismiss them. Yet now, they will attempt to apply logic and reason to argue for the OWS movement because they happen to agree with it. They will say OWS isn't all bad just because "some" of them are bad. And while I agree with this new found logic they've decided to conditionally apply to something they agree with, because it IS logical, the issue is they didn't lend that same logic to the "teabagger rallies", as they described them. Because, you know, EVERYONE involved in the tea party was a racist religious zealot that has hijacked congress and held it hostage! Oh, and for the record, I don't agree with the tea party movement OR the OWS movement. Good post. The media would do well to understand this concept.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 6, 2011 -> 06:06 AM) That's unfortunate, because it's a giant strawman. You think its a strawman that I look at OWS' issues with sexual assault, hypocrisy , violence, entitlement, greed, drug use, communism/socialism, anti-Americanism, anti-Semitism, ignorance and so forth and consider that to be baggage that absolutely ruins any positive influence and message they might have started with? I could provide multiple examples of each of these. It doesn't surprise me that you'd look fondly at a movement overrun with degenerates, but I'm not going to join you.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 10:02 PM) Tex, they can't hide behind their supposed lack of leadership. They have 'executive committees' and a power structure like the very corporations they despise, they just don't make it public and try to make a display of 'inclusion', while trying to silence dissention in the ranks. SOMEBODY is taking in the money and deciding what to do with it. People keep trying top smear the Tea Party for a few nuts, yet when a whole group goes rampaging thru a town, we just supposed to take is as an exception? Bravo.

QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 08:36 PM) Who is in charge of any movement like this? Who is there to denounce them? OK, I denounce them! You denounced them, so I guess people are denouncing them. Where there are crowds, there are idiots. This movement in particular attracts some really idiots. And those are the ones making headlines because they are committing crimes. There are people cooping this for their own agendas. I can sit here and match you post for post where people in outstanding organizations do some pretty despicable things. That doesn't mean every soldier, cop, teacher, tea partier, etc are bad. There are many more Americans who agree with some of the protesters who can't be at the protests. I get what you're saying. Don't generalize. Don't assume they're all bad because I still don't know all of them. I get that point. That still doesn't mean I can't make a decent argument that this movement, whether it was rotten from the start or simply coopted by the worst of the worst, is bad for America. I don't think it's going to induce any positive change and it's only going to sour the current state of affairs. And at worst, it's going to get people killed. Think about it...would you tell me not to call the Nazi Party an evil organization just because Oskar Schindler was a member? You wouldn't make that argument. There can be bad movements that have a few, or even many, good people. It doesn't mean their ultimate effect isn't a destructive one.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 08:25 PM) Back in my hometown, it's been organized by; an ex-con who is mad that he can't get a job because of that, a kid that sat next to me in 4th grade in the honors program who dropped out of high school, and a high school junior pot-head, who, while a nice kid, knows nothing about how society is run. Speaking of how societies are run, I really like the way they try to form their own little society, as if they'd be able to cure all these supposed ills, like corporate greed. Yet they almost instantly stumble into the exact same sort of problems themselves. They raise an assload of money and the drummers want their fair share to maintain their equipment, but everyone else is annoyed with the drummers constantly playing so instead they institute a drummers tax. And then there's the thieves that are pissing some occupiers off. And apparently some of the kitchen staff at Zuccotti Park is upset that homeless people and others who don't really contribute to the cause are eating all the food. So their utopian society is already levying taxes and making moves against the freeloaders and thieves. Soon, they won't be protesting against America's 1% anymore; they'll just be protesting the 1% of themselves!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 07:42 PM) The Human Microphone is going to repeat whatever the "Speaker" says, it's making it so that the person can be heard. The silly looking finger thing is how they vote. If you dont' have a mic setup and electric, that one actually makes sense. And if we want to put "Crazy statements on currency issues" from each side up, I think the Conservative movement will definitely hold its ground. Fiat money, gold standard return, etc. Yeah, except the chick was holding a bullhorn off to the side. And I get that the human mic simply repeats things. Which is stupid, if you ask me (they sound like mindless drones). Frankly, if I was participating in a similar setup, and someone said something that stupid, I'd just keep my mouth shut. And down twinkles? Ha. They wonder why we laugh at them. I'm honestly not big on the currency issue. But I do know enough to know that simply printing your own money isn't going to work. Hell, if it did, we could just print ourselves out of debt! Are you really claiming that conservative positions on this one are crazier than the idea of just massive counterfeiting?

QUOTE (cws0591 @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 07:27 PM) Destroying any truth that occupy speaks with this and many other nonsensical things that are proposed/done. Like the chick I linked to earlier who demanded that people be allowed to print their own money. And of course, the "human microphone" mindlessly echoed the idiotic statement. It might not be everyone, but stupid stuff like that gives the movement a bad name. Not that I mind.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 07:11 PM) This. Well, anger aside, that's my foremost thought on these protests. The base complaint is valid (although sometimes misdirected), the proposed solutions aren't, and a lot of the behavior is completely dishonorable. And this leaves me as no big fan of these guys.

Curious, Quin...since I know you're basically liberal, what have I said here that you agree with?

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 07:07 PM) I've agreed with some of your points in this thread, but you are very, very angry. You haven't figured out that's sort of my whole schtick by now?

Maggots. Bonus question- Do these turds who whine about cameras coming through their camps and taking pictures of their messes realize they are on public property? Probably not.

QUOTE (Tex @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 06:31 PM) Speaking of despicable scum, people who are violently intolerant, criminal and disruptive of the lives of normal Americans, we can add guys like the 5th Stryker Brigade of Fort Lewis, Washington, who are charged with the wanton murder of Afghan civilians in Kandahar last spring, or Army Lt. William Calley, or Capt. Daniel Nilsson, or Kevin Lee Flippin, or CMDR Jay Wyle, or . . . I'll point out that what all these people have in common is being at the fringes of the groups they are associated with, and rejected by good and just people everywhere. I would not paint the entire organizations with the same brush. Maybe it's just poor syntax on your part, but the 5th Stryker Brigade has roughly 4,000 Soldiers. And what, five of them, turned out to be murderous douchebags? Anyway, yeah, f*** them. They're not Soldiers and I'd gladly be the executioner for all of them. And for Calley. I don't know anything about the last three, but if they're anything like the first two examples, then f*** them too. I'll denounce the s*** out of people who disgrace the uniform. I wear this uniform with pride and I have no tolerance for people who would use it as a way to murder innocent people. Let the Taliban and the Palestinians celebrate murder and terrorism from those within their ranks; let us punish it when we find it amongst us. It just shows who's superior here. So that's just it. Where are the denouncements from OWS' main camp about the riots in Oakland and the idiocy in DC last night and the drug use and the rapes? If nobody denounces it and says that's not what they're about, how am I supposed to know that there are indeed good people in the movement? They risk being judged by their craziest elements. And so far, to be honest, I haven't seen a protester who does come across as sensible or reasonable or even likeable. Even the ones who aren't simply vulgar and clownish come off as tragically uninformed.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 04:56 PM) lol Did you even watch the video?

These people are savages. If you're not already seeing that this is a movement of the most despicable scum, people who are violently intolerant, criminal and disruptive of the lives of normal Americans, then you're just delusional.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Nov 5, 2011 -> 01:40 PM) Infantry, You love capitalism? I assume you are for increasing immigration then. Because as Im sure you are aware, capitalism is about the free hand of the market and labor (supply) being regulated by the govt is not capitalism. Unlike you, Im not just going to throw around insults. You have no idea what I want, you just throw around insults. Im a liberal, like every founding father. You hate liberals, I just assumed that since you hate them, youd hate our founding fathers as well. From your own admission youre a conservative, which at its most basic philosophical level is against change. I dont support the protests, Im not against the protests. I think people have the right to express themselves, and I think that our system is broken. So if as an unintended consequence change for the better is made due to these protests, that is a good thing. But through out history, all protestors have been called "morons" (or worse) by the conservatives of the time. English conservatives called American's morons (American revolution was the most liberal movement arguably in the previous thousand years), French aristocrats called the peasants "morons" when they revolted against the inequalities. So yeah, you can call liberals morons, but your insulting every single American who built this country. /shrugs I'm all for legal immigration. Not illegal immigration. But in your typical fashion, you try to blur that line so you can continue to make your moronic arguments. You're nothing like the Founding Fathers. Yes, you are a liberal, and in their times, they were liberals too. Like the rest of your ilk, you use word tricks to attach yourself to much better people. The Founding Fathers wanted to change the circumstances in which they found themselves. Yeah, I got that. But that doesn't equate them to you, some big government dirtbag of contemporary times. "Liberal" and "conservative" are relative words that do not stand the test of time in any meaningful manner. Again, I'm not against change. I think we could change a lot of things. However, I am against change conducted by people such as yourself and the current POTUS. I'm against change for the sake of change, which seems to be what OWS wants. Communism, socialism, anarchy, these things constitute change, but it's not good change. I support OWS' right to free speech. Even when it's incredibly dumb (and most of it is). That doesn't mean I support the protests. And I certainly don't support the sexual assaults, the violence, the anti-Semitism found there. And I find it impossible to fathom that this movement, without any leaders or organization and no real message, will ever make a positive change in the system. They're just an annoyance, and they'll be gone soon. The last time dirty hippies acted out like this, Republicans held the White House for 20 out of 24 years. So maybe that's positive change after all! So get the f*** off your high horse. You don't know what you're talking about.