FT35

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 09:45 AM) Wait why would the heart of the order come up in the 9th inning more often than not, that doesn't make sense. It's just one of those things that seems to happen more times than not. I've scoured the internet for a number but it's tough to find. You hear announcers talk about it a lot--even Hawk refers to it sometimes as "just the way Abner designed it." If nothing else, you're usually facing the 3 best eligible bats when you factor in the pinch hitting that takes place.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 04:52 PM) Holds don't equal saves but blown holds equal blown saves. That's my issue with your stats. I don't hate the logic. In reality the stats don't always equal out. Many times a guy could come in with the bases loaded and 0 outs--throw a sac fly bringing in the runner from third--then strike out 2 to end the inning--and still gets tagged with the blown hold. To me those "hot potato" situations aren't the easiest to hang a negative stat on a reliever who came in and faced 3 batters and got 3 outs. Whereas many blown saves happen from starting the 9th inning fresh with no base runners. Also the 9th inning is a different animal in many ways--pinch hitters galore, the heart of the order more times than not, the crowd...etc... Maybe your logic would sit better if we were just talking clean-inning blown holds/saves--even though the 9th inning element is still looming.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 10:51 PM) I'm not too worried about the low walk total. He's barreling the ball almost every AB. I think another few months or next year he will start getting the full respect from pitchers. Right now he's probably labeled as "Cmon, I've faced this guy the last few years...he ain't THAT dangerous". Keep it up Avi and you'll be relabled as "Uh oh, better be extra careful here". Then I think the walks will trend upward. Super impressed so far. Best thing that could have happened this year for the Sox. I agree! Although strange, it's a great thing for us! In spring training, I was on board with wiping the slate clean--there really weren't any players other than maybe Abreu and Anderson who I thought we couldn't rebuild without. To have guys like Avi, Yolmer, Leury, Matt Davidson, Derek Holland and Tommy Kahnle step up and show they can be quality MLB players over longer stretches of time like they have--it's really encouraging. Most of these guys have been waiver worthy for us in the past. Not saying we should build around them...but it's a nice unexpected pool of value to work with that I don't think we had before this season started.

Gotta remember...for teams in the race, the present is heavily weighted in their decisions. A top-100 prospect does nothing to help them now. If you were say the Nationals and you needed bullpen help and had a top-100 prospect in your system who could do what Kahnle is doing right now in the majors, you'd call him up! The problem is...they DON'T have that guy they need in their system. But they do have other good players in their system and if someone told you you could turn that other player into Tommy Kahnle himself, to fill the position you need filled at the MLB level, you'd pull the trigger. You know what Kahnle is capable of doing, you know he fills a need on your team now. No one is talking Robles for Kahnle. That's unrealistic...that would be like us moving Moncada for a solid RP if we were in a pennant race. But I guarantee Kahnle is more valuable to a GM whose team is in the race (and has GLARING bullpen issues) than holding one of his top-100 prospects (whose path to the majors is most likely blocked) in the minors for another year. But then again we're talking about the same organization who shut down Strasburg in the middle of a pennant race and watched their team dwindle to nothing. With Bryce Harper potentially nearing the end of his tenure in Washington, there is a great deal of pressure on the Nationals to win NOW. The whole reason why you play is to be in the pennant race. Sometimes being in that position comes with a price--that's usually prospects. When you're a perennial contender it's usually because your MLB roster is already strong at most positions. Most prospects (who aren't super prospects like Robles), are like kindling. If you're not calling them up to help keep the MLB fire burning, you better be moving them for guys who can help you or else the fire will burn out. Just look at what Washington sacrificed to fill their CF position in December! They are ALL IN--we've been there. It's only a good position to be in if you end up winning it all. The consequence of going all in and not winning it all is...well...we're watching it now with our Sox. Winning it all in Washington is expected--and might be the biggest sales pitch they have to keeping Bryce around for another contract. If I'm a GM, I smell blood in the Washington water. Their prospects are as good as gone by the deadline.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 10:35 AM) Kahlne has no track record to speak of, I highly doubt we get a top 100 guy for him. If so it will be 80-100 range We're watching his track record now--It's a pretty good one!

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 08:20 AM) I think the Nats would trust him 100% more than anyone that steps out of the clown car that they drive out to the mound every save opportunity. The Nationals' version of our Ronald Bellisario days............I still have a twitch even typing that...

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jun 19, 2017 -> 09:36 AM) Avi's "hot start" began last August 1. I don't have the stats available but I know they're out there. So that's almost a full year of a young player figuring things out. After suffering through his struggles, you'd have to be blown away by any offer, as far as I'm concerned. I think you're right. It seems as if he is well-liked within the organization. I think the fact that he got the extension that he did for this year (despite being as bad as he was) says a lot about how the team feels about him. It would take a great offer from a team who is asking the same question as we are--is this version Avi here to stay?

What we know about Avi's time here: 1. He was acquired in the Peavy to Boston deal with the expectation that he would turn into the player he is right now. 2. In his initial season with us, he showed why he was a highly-touted player in the Detroit system--he hit well for us down the stretch. 3. He got off to a very promising start in his first full season and suffered a pretty bad injury in Colorado--a series where he was really raking. 4. Coming off the injury, he was slow to recover the offensive potential he exhibited before the injury. 5. Things got so bad for him that there were many times where he looked over-matched at the plate AND in the field--as if he did not belong in the major leagues. 6. His talent came in and out--for moments, he would flash his ability to hit plus change-ups with ease and he would excite us with an occasional 2-HR game. 7. The good was very inconsistent and short-lived--leading most to write him off as a bust and someone who was never the same player after his injury. 8. The Sox shocked us all when they resigned him for this season--we all thought he was a big reason why we were bad. 9. He got off to a hot start this season and everyone wrote it off as a fluke. 10. That hot start has only gotten hotter and now most of is are wondering if it's still a fluke because the days were so long ago when he was a very promising young talent. SO...I would hesitate to write him off to a good start...simply because he showed this type of promise coming up--and has shown his ability to be a nice offensive weapon over longer stretches of time IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES. So I guess it's just up to us to see him as the player he showed promise to be a few years ago, or see him as the player who is still struggling after a big injury to discover what made him promising. Chances are he's not this good, and he's not AS bad as he was there on Robin's teams. But if he keeps it up through this season, he sort of reminds me of a Marcell Ozuna type path. If you take the good with the bad, you end up somewhere in the middle. That would put him in the .270-.285/20-25/75-80/75-80/handful of steals category. For outfielders, that production compares to Ozuna and Stephen Piscotty--both 26-years old. Neither player is a super star, but both have demonstrated that they can produce at a certain level for an entire season--showing susceptibility to prolong slumps, but also the ability to carry a team for equal stretches of time. There's value there--both to us and to others. The Sox just need to determine if they want to roll the dice on an extension that would keep him here under the hope that "good-Avi" is here to stay, or cash in on the success he's had this year and move him. Given the state of our system's OF depth, I would think they are leaning towards rolling the dice on keeping him.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 02:23 PM) but can he do a standing back flip? Ha! Not sure...the video of his first hit/HR cut off there at the end.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 02:10 PM) Did either Machado or Harper take a year off of baseball? I think that has to be factored in, as well as playing baseball in Cuba isn't the same as playing it even if the US minor leagues. With each Cuban position player we have seen bad habits and sectors of their game that needed to be worked on. 19 year old Dayan Viciedo needed basically 3 full minor league seasons (the last two mixed with short call ups) before he could play a full season in the majors at 23. We might see him at 21, but he probably won't be ready at 21. Fair enough...good point about the year off. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on a little fast track though. The dude is a monster athlete and really looks cut next to other 19 year olds. At 6'3" 205 at age 19--he's got possible Giancarlo Stanton body type once he fills out. (6'6" 245). Another 20 year old debuter too.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 03:05 PM) I'm sure that has something to do with why he is not stateside yet, but also we do not need to throw him into Kannapolis before he has gotten some playing time in the DSL as a tune up. A year away from organized baseball is quite some time. A likely path would be: DSL, possibly some Rookie League and/or low A ball games in 2017 2018 start the season in low A, with good performance earning promotion and finishing the season at high A. 2019 start season at AA, possible AAA promotion second half of the season. 2020 likely some time in AAA, but good chance of a callup? I think this is conservative. Robert is 19 now--There are many young stars who make their MLB debut at age 20. Don't know if he's in this category or not yet--too soon to tell but both Manny Machado and Bryce Harper made their debut's at age 20--they seem to be doing OK. I think you're right about this year and next, but I would think IF HE PERFORMS the way he should and is capable of, 2019 could be the year we first see him at age 21.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 10:32 AM) I think one thing that has really hurt Q this year is not having Sale pitching in front of him. They are such completely different pitchers stylewise that it takes batters a bit to get a read on Q's stuff after coming off a game against Sale. This just means Q should go to Boston!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 08:01 AM) Good post...but believe (for now) teams will shy away from offering super elite prospects like Torres...instead trying to acquire him for 3-4 players with two being MILB top 35-75. Absolutely--that key is "for now." So you don't trade him "now now now!!!"

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 15, 2017 -> 09:41 PM) I guess the eye test doesn't matter at all. He's looked very mediocre. Couple the eye test with traditional stats like ERA and you get a very average pitcher right now. I think the eye test is in focusing on the big picture and viewing a pitcher like Quintana in the same way GM's do and not fans. Could Jeff Samardzija have pitched any worse than he did for us? It still didn't keep a team from investing $90 million dollars in him. Now think about that for a second and let it soak in...90...MILLION...dollars for a guy who was coming off an entire season where he posted a 5.13 ERA and really failed to demonstrate that he could get MLB hitters out with any consistency. He got the contract because GMs realize that pitchers are human also. Shark HAD demonstrated that he could get MLB hitters out with consistency--just not that year with us. GMs look at the numbers and ask "why?" Their people offer suggestions--shying away from a typical out pitch, afraid of the strike zone, maybe some tipping, maybe it's poor defense, maybe a technique glitch in the delivery. Things happen to good pitchers. They all post a mediocre season or 2 (unless you're Clayton Kershaw--which no one is claiming Q to be). Look at Verlander--working on his 3rd season of an ERA over 4.50 (that's mediocre). You think GMs weight the bad season with him--or the fact that he's a 6-time All-Star? The talent was ALWAYS there. Quintana has never posted a season with an ERA over 3.76. Is he struggling!? Absolutely! But no GM is going to look at Jose Quintana and say--well...he WAS one of the best pitchers in the league for the last 5 YEARS...but now he's not. What they are going to do is try to buy low because they know these things happen. Rick Hahn will field many ridiculous offers for Q now. And he will simply decline--because we all know that Quintana will right his ship. How tough is it to perform at your highest level for a team who is picked to potentially finish dead last in MLB--with your name floating around on a daily basis just waiting for your phone to ring telling you that you're relocating. All Q's slump means is that now might not be the best time to trade him...and honestly I don't think that has any impact on the organization and their plans moving forward. The rebuild is still on--it's not being "hurt" by Quintana's poor performance, it's not dependent on him being dominant now. There will be Gleyber Torres-type prospects available whenever the time is to move him on. The flip on Quintana will happen at the right time or it won't happen at all. There are other moves that have happened or will happen in the meantime that will improve this team (Robert signing, getting the draft picks signed, trying to move Robertson, etc.). This isn't even a spin of optimism or a sales pitch on Quintana...it's just the way it is. Fans might not see that shinny new prospect they all want at this moment--but there will be a top 100 list next year with different names on it--several will be good ones.

QUOTE (oldsox @ May 19, 2017 -> 06:28 AM) I always wondered why Hawkins was included in the Tulo trade with Toronto. He already had announced that was his final season. He wasn't any good any more. But he was Kahnle's teammate.... -Kahnlegate.

I would expect Sale to hear mostly cheers tonight. He certainly did a lot for our team when he was here. Even though he became a pain in the neck towards the end and the immaturity was unfortunate to see. Nothing changed the fact that he's one of the best in the game though. I know I appreciate all he did when he was here. I'd expect him to be his usual Chris Sale self tonight--tough to hit and frequently dominant.

QUOTE (ChiSoxJon @ May 28, 2017 -> 10:03 AM) What does Holland get back? I was thinking about this too but came across a dilemma. Obviously it depends on the acquiring team's needs. If they REALLY need him, they would give up more, but what contender would be in such bad shape that Derek Holland would be the answer to all their problems and worth giving up a lot to get him. Eh... I think you're looking at a team who is OK with who they have, but have the desire to improve on one of their spots or to just go get a vet as a fallback option...with that outlook...they aren't going to break the bank to get a slight upgrade or a mid-grade insurance policy. So I think we should keep our expectations in check with Holland--even though the numbers are there this year. My guess it would be at best an organizational top 5-7 in a weak system, top 10-12 in a strong system. There may be a 2nd player added to supplement this scale. I would think a similar return could be had for Gonzalez--just maybe slightly lower since Holland is a lefty. There are better starting pitching options available--and chances are teams who are in the hunt will already have a strong rotation and Holland and Miggy wouldn't prove to be huge upgrades over what they have. I love predictions...so I'll say Holland to the spacious field of the Dodgers and Gonzalez to the Yankees to keep the ball on the ground (or back to Baltimore--although I would think they would be a team that would push harder for a better option). Of course injuries could change this completely. ha

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ May 30, 2017 -> 10:27 AM) The bunting thing sucks and has probably cost the sox a few runs this year but I've always said a manager should at least either be good tactically or "leader of men" wise. If you get both, he's a top 5-8 in MLB manager. For a minute, Guillen was a great leader of men and alright tactically, he had his s*** lineups and bunts but he was good with the pen. RV was awful tactically, awful leader of men. So far Renteria appears mediocre tactically (he does get the value of splits, especially for young players trying to gain confidence) and very good leader of men wise. Same grade I gave him a couple weeks ago, a solid B. Interesting. I like the logic.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ May 29, 2017 -> 05:22 PM) This is where you think a front office steps in and provides some data to demonstrate how stupid it is to bunt with two strikes. Welll...this is the same front office who gave Robin 3 years too many for him to get things figured out. It came with the canned talk track of "I'm not here to question his in-game decision making." Hahn, Williams...they always commented something along those lines when reporters would interview them--wondering WHY on EARTH Robin was still employed. I'm just glad we have an actual manager rather than someone who played and didn't even want the job. If he believes he has potential for success on the 2-strike bunt, he's probably got about 2 and a half years to try it out before there's any mention of it from the FO!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 26, 2017 -> 10:20 AM) C'mon, no Puig or Cespedes? Abreu? L. Robert? That's some pretty strong anti-Cuban bias there. Avi or Leury Garcia? Bellinger and Judge are looking great so far too, but way too early. I notice you left out Kris Bryant. Intentional? Rizzo? Lots of good choices...F. Freeman and a certain Reds' 1B named Votto come to mind as well. Sano if he keeps raking, but his defense sucks. Benintendi. Gary Sanchez. So much young talent. Mauer, as discussed earlier, and Molina. Posey. Sale. Maybe Lester. Kimbrel. K-Rod probably. BTW I left Rizzo off intentionally. The power numbers are there, but a .266 career hitter will have a tough case to make--especially as a first baseman. Votto is a good one--he's kind of Paul Konerko plus an MVP minus a ring. Sale could gain steam with a few more dominating years and a ring or 2--still a lot to accomplish. Not that rings have much barring on the HOF--just being with Boston and winning a couple couldn't hurt his case.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 26, 2017 -> 11:17 AM) Oops. Hard to think of a Trout as a veteran at 26 when he still hasn't reached his prime in late 20's. It sure is...I think people overuse the term "generational talent." Not every great young player is even close to a generational talent. I think we're seeing the true definition of the word with Mike Trout--he's the best of the very best. Pujols was there in his prime--Miguel's bat was always 1b behind Pujols. No one else is in Trout's league...THAT is what makes him a generational talent. We're lucky to witness. I'm hoping my next Sox game will be vs. the Angels--I gotta see him play.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 26, 2017 -> 10:20 AM) C'mon, no Puig or Cespedes? Abreu? L. Robert? That's some pretty strong anti-Cuban bias there. Avi or Leury Garcia? Bellinger and Judge are looking great so far too, but way too early. I notice you left out Kris Bryant. Intentional? Rizzo? Lots of good choices...F. Freeman and a certain Reds' 1B named Votto come to mind as well. Sano if he keeps raking, but his defense sucks. Benintendi. Gary Sanchez. So much young talent. Mauer, as discussed earlier, and Molina. Posey. Sale. Maybe Lester. Kimbrel. K-Rod probably. Bryant's there with Harper. I think those 2 are a tick above the others.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2017 -> 02:15 PM) #3? I mean that is kind of the point. When you are trying to stretch it to the three best catchers currently, it is probably going too far. We are talking about the best ever, and the best of a generation. It really shouldn't be a list. At a position like catcher, it should be 1, or maybe 2 guys. Exactly! I mean the number of Hall of Famers playing now is pretty low. Although you have a tremendous group of young players who are definitely HOF-worthy if they keep their career on track. You have Pujols, Miguel Cabrera, Robinson Cano, Mike Trout, I think Buster Posey, Ichiro, Clayton Kershaw, Cody Asche. I think those guys are in for sure. Hanley Ramirez was there, but had too many injuries I think. Some of you might have him there. Then you have Bryant & Harper who are the best of the young studs with guys like Machado, Lindor, Correa, Corey Seager, Betts, Bogaerts, Altuve, Arenado(?) and Goldschmidt. Guys like that have a strong chance of getting into that HOF conversation with little to no improvement to their game--just by playing and staying healthy. There may be more...There's no set number--just the best of the best. Certainly a bright future for baseball with the young talent coming in.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ May 25, 2017 -> 07:48 AM) Posey is on track I think. I agree. I think with the Championships, he might have solidified that spot even if he makes the switch to 1st full time and puts up decent numbers from here on. He was/is one of the best of his time--and even posted elite catcher numbers after the extreme injuries he's had. I'd vote yes on him.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 25, 2017 -> 06:17 AM) Sal Perez and Molina are the only other catchers who are even close to being considered. Mauer is the interesting case with his split career...but he's probably not going to make it either. If his career ended in 2010 like Puckett, he gets in but not anymore since he became an average 1B/DH. Yeah Molina was on the inside track for sure before his injuries started. Mauer was a great catcher, but I think his almost complete lack of power may cost him. Yes, it's possible to see the slap hitters get in but usually you see a very high number of SB offset that lack of power. 6-time all-star certainly helps his case as being the best at his position though. We might have a case for him being in the conversation!