Con te Giolito

Something would have to be done to rectify this from the Pirates side, probably remove Hayes or Diaz (or both) but once that's done this makes sense for all involved. I know I'm making a big fuss about not waiting to deal Quintana, but waiting to trade Robertson is even riskier. At least Quintana is good. Now the stakes with Robertson obviously are nowhere near as high as they are with Q, but using him as grease to get a bigger deal done makes sense. I would also do a similar deal with the Yankees for Rutherford.

I'm not saying trade him now for whatever you can get. I am saying whatever is too much to give up for Q this offseasom will still be too much to give up for Q in July, and next offseason, and next July on and on. Barring a miracle Cy Young caliber season this is peak Q value. Hahn can be as upset as he wants that "his price" isn't being met, but taking his ball and going home because New York won't give him their three top prospects just exposes the Sox to a ton of unnecessary risk for what is overwhelmingly likely to be no gain. What other teams are willing to give up determines Q's price not what you want to get for him. You guys are acting like this market where there is one, maybe two, effective starters available will last forever....it wont. It probably expires sometime in May. And by July 31 Q will be one of a few guys and by next offseason he'll be one of many. That is the moment you'll be begging just to get Kevin Newman because the only teams you'll be negotiating with are the ones who rely on their prospects to survive and covet them as such. The big time clubs will all be spending money, because they would rather lose that than prospects. And if Q just loses his mojo or gets hurt? Forget about it. You'll be begging to dump his salary. So if you think holding Q past about mid-February is a good idea you are betting on him to become Clayton Kershaw.

Really? That's the worst case scenario? Worst case scenario for me is he blows his arm out in the WBC and the Sox get nothing.

It will also introduce sellers who aren't selling today. Unless someone wants to sell the farm for an inferior pitcher in Archer the only real way to upgrade a rotation right now is Quintana. That dynamic wont exist in 7 months. And whether anyone likes to admit it or not Q's value probably begins to decline pretty soon. Even if he keeps doing exactly what he has been for the past 4 years, he will keep getting older and the years remaining on that contract keep getting fewer. So it would take a Cy Young level season for his value to really go up, and while that's possible I just dont find it likely. Q's thing is consistency and while consistency means he never sinks too low, it also means he probably wont fly too high. Sox shouldn't be admitting any of this and instead let the warring parties big against each other rather than the White Sox bluff of holding Quintana until the deadline (or later).

Guys who are going to be drafted this year or overall?

Right, there's risk in waiting for the Pirates as well. Even if everything stays pretty much the same and the Pirates wait until July 31 to ultimately include Meadows they just let Jose Quintana keep being Jose Quintana for 130 innings on the last-place White Sox while they could've had him pitching in Pittsburgh and gotten all that value all along. Also, I know nobody wants to think this way yet, but if the White Sox dont trade Jose Quintana because nobody offered them a stronger return than they got for Sale the thought of this "rebuild" being nothing more than a cleaning out of last springs troublemakers will be hard to deny.

Newman may not feel like an adequate headliner now, but Quintana has so much as a bad month and you'll be begging for him at the deadline.

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 4m4 minutes ago Impasse on Dozier does not preclude future talks, but #Twins had wanted to give Dozier heightened peace of mind on status with club. 2/2 Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 4m4 minutes ago Sources: #Twins, #Dodgers at impasse on Dozier. No momentum toward deal. 1/2 As far as I'm concerned that buries the Dozier trade.

He's a decent defender. His ceiling is probably, as I said, infielder Adam Eaton while his floor is something around Tyler Saladino. Can really never have too many of those guys, in a deal with Pittsburgh that includes him and the two top pitchers the idea is probably to just acquire as much talent as humanly possible and if the fourth piece is up to snuff I'm OK with it, though not enthusiastic. The team to really start considering may be the Braves. Any pitching the Sox acquire from here on would preferably be left handed, which Atlanta is swimming in, and they do have an interesting stable of position players. I dont think you get both Acuna and Albies, but one surely seems possible. Austin Riley has had some ups and downs but he's young and clearly talented. How wiling they are to deal Albies is really the question, and even if they are the rest of the deal has to be right also. Where is that Braves fan from earlier?

Watching 5 minutes of Pat Mahomes on Youtube will sell you on him as worthy of #3 overall. Elusiveness, quick release, rocket arm and he's got the little things like keeping his eyes downfield and manipulating defenders with body language down too. They say that Texas Tech system makes guys look good, but they also said that about Aaron Rodgers with Tedford. Now obviously you dont draft Mahomes #3 overall put if there ever was a guy to sneak in and take a little early while everyone else claws over each other for Watson, Trubisky, Kizer and this new kid (hype rocket, standby) Allen he feels like the one.

Some of you guys seem to be at your wits end with this Quintana round-and-round and I am right there with you, but man be thankful were not Twins fans going through this nightmare with the Dodgers for weeks and weeks.

Get to Googlin' the name of Mr. Ronald Acuna because him + Albies is a duo of position players that is really only topped by Torres+Frazier/Rutherford or Meadows+Bell/Newman. Then you infuse some young lefties (Sox are a little short on lefties now) with Joey Wentz and Max Fried into the system. Plus Luke Jackson who was a gas can last year but definitely a worth use of innings for a rebuilding team to see if he can figure it out and be a good bullpen piece.

SOX FANS STATUS: MAD AT ASTROS

This surplus value stuff goes in one ear and out the other with me. I'm sorry but it feels like voodoo math with values arbitrarily assigned to players who could be massive steals for 6 years of control or a whirlpool of plate appearances for 3 years (hey Avi how you doin).

Fine by me he's not the Houston pitcher I'd be after.

I've said that I dont believe in Tyler Glasnow much, but Keller + Newman headlining feels like a decent start. The quality of the 4th name makes or breaks that deal.

If they get either Meadows or Torres without it being what amounts to a 1-for-1 swap I'll be happy. If the deal doesn't include one of those two I want three top 100 (consensus, not snuck in at 97 on one list) with at least one, preferably the best, being a position player and a 4th lower level player added. I'm not getting too hung up on specific names, if a deal feels right I'll like it.

The player you just described is basically an infield version of Adam Eaton with more power. I just wish the Pirates had one more like him. Give me two Kevin Newman's plus Keller (or Glasnow, even if I'm not a believer) and I'd be happy. But as its stands Ke'Bryan Hayes is a 20 year old who has just over 500 career PA's and Cole Tucker couldnt hit water if he fell out of a boat. The Pirates are short a piece.

Thinking of things this way is counterproductive.

After signing McPhee one year and drafting Floyd the next this would be a bit of a let down. I get why they would do it, but with the massive investment the Bears have made at the position to see them burn #3 overall on it would be more than worrying.

If the Sox are starting a deal with Torres and Rutherford they really cant expect too much more back. Probably a couple Victor Diaz's. Still a nice haul though, two premium position player prospects added is basically what you're hoping for here. Torres may not be where Moncada is as a prospect yet, but I could easily see Torres having the better career. Same applies to Meadows. That may not even be a knock against Moncada, Kris Bryant is better than Carlos Correa but I doubt any Astros fans are crying about having Carlos Correa (Mark Appel OTOH....).

That's what that YES network guy said, I dont see a reason not to believe him.

If the Browns, 49ers and Bears are all not interested someone will trade up for him. I think he's a lock for top 3 as long as he does reasonably well in shorts this offseason.

Better? Yes. By far? No.

Torres + Frazier is a bit much to be demanding of the Yankees and if Hahn really isn't budging off that demand I'm getting a little worried. Lots of talk about Quintana's value and what the Sox should get for him...Quintana's value is the most another team is willing to pay. Now Hahn's job to play salesman and get that highest price, but being ridiculous isn't productive. As for the waiting until Hahn's "price is met". If I have a base model Ford Focus that I'm trying to sell for $50,000 and nobody wants to buy it I cant just say "well have fun taking the BUS" and expect someone to come crawling back in a year to buy my Ford Focus (that is now a year older btw) for a giant pile of money. Time is not going to magically concoct a new market for Jose Quintana out of thin air, if anything his market shrinks as the 2017-18 FA bonanza draws nearer. There will be more competition at the deadline too, some of those impending FA's will be available as rentals.