Con te Giolito

I had a conversation via text with a friend of mine who works in baseball and he said what Kopech is doing is almost definitely an abridged offseason program that isn't meant to add much (if any) velocity. These sessions come nowhere near the strain of even a minor league start on a tight pitch count. The guy who owns this facility is running a business and definitely wants HS players to see Kopech hurling 110 mph lasers at his gym and will play up these feats on social media to try and generate buzz. It seems to have worked. Some guys have the Mark Buehrle beer n huntin' offseason regimen, others are workout maniacs. Its different for each guy and as long as Kopech isn't directly disobeying the White Sox doing this stuff its fine.

The offer that got turned down is perhaps two top 30ish players and another guy who would be probably top 20 if he were still rookie eligble. If Hahn woud've gotten that deal it would have been a coup.

The Samardzija deal wasn't really that great of a trade at the time. I guess Samardzija being bad has kind of made it a no brainer but even at the time it felt like a 2 for 1 swap just to get Russell. Theo probably overplayed his hand in trade talks and/or spent a little too much time trying to hammer out an extension with Shark. Worked out well anyways for them, sometimes that's just how it plays out.

I would almost guarantee you that the offers currently on the table and offered by Houston, Atlanta and possibly New York are not subpar. Pittsburgh its harder to tell, they really need to include Bell or Meadows. The Astros offered Tucker, Paulino, Martes and two additional prospects for Chris Archer, you dont think there is a similar deal for Quintana? Is that return really "subpar"? From all the reporting and speculation from people who seem to know these types of things the issue does not appear to be other teams lowballing the Sox, its that Hahn's asking price is unrealistic.

If Quintana turns in a 4+ ERA it will still do serious damage to his stock no matter what his FIP or WAR winds up being.

You understand what it will do to Jose Quintana's performance if the Sox defense behind him actually manages to get worse? I think that change alone almost eliminates any reasonable hope that Quintana could raise his stock by turning in an epic 2017 performance.

A deal doesn't have to made RIGHT NOW TODAY but the longer this drags on the more the prospect of him breaking camp with the Sox rises. I'm not desperate to see him go, but I am getting apprehensive about Rick Hahn's handling of this situation. No panic, no freaking out...but definitely starting to worry. Johan Santana was traded on January 30th (well, really January 28th. The deal was contingent on the Mets hammering out an extension with him and that took a couple days whatever...), it was about this time that Max Scherzer signed a few years ago...deals can still be made in mid-to-late January. But if he's on the Sox come February it'll be time to start sounding some alarms.

Definitely slows down the rebuild by hurting draft position in 2018 and delaying the arrival of prospects to the organization. I guess there's a slim possibility Sox get better value for Quintana next year, basically you're betting that Quintana turns in a ~2.50ish ERA with his usual workload and finishes in the year in the Cy Young race. Sounds like a silly bet to me, especially with all that can go wrong and preexisting disadvantages to waiting to deal Quintana.

Jose Quintana is 200 very solid, occasionally brilliant, left-handed innings. His WAR slightly overrates him, though he is obviously not an overrated player around the league. He is not Chris Sale. He is not a potential hall of famer nor generational talent. He is not particularly unique or rare, there are Jose Quintana's in the league every year going back forever. Maybe not a giant pile of them, but there have always been guys pitching as well as Jose Quintana has pitched for the White Sox. This isn't meant to disparage or belittle how good Q has been, its just an honest appraisal of him. He's still a fantastic pitcher who just turned 28 and figures to keep doing what he's been doing. Jose Quintana's are the locomotives that drive a team to a division championship. The contract is not as important as people make it out to be. Its nice, it definitely helps more than it hurts, but really its only a deal breaker to the real cheap franchises like Pittsburgh and you've seen how incredibly frustrating their cowardice to step up and make a move for fear of being wrong they can be. The teams willing to give up prospects for Quintana are giving up prospects for Quintana so he can help them win their divisions this year and next year*. If he comes cheaper that's great. *this also hampers his deadline value because teams are going to want the 120 IP he'll have accumulated by the team the deadline rolls around.

Musgrove, Tucker and Martes is an outstanding deal and I am not a Martes fan. If Musgrove were a prospect he would be right there with Lopez, Kopech and Giolito....he has such outstanding command on a good fastball, good slider and improving changeup. Tucker is a fantastic second piece and even if you dont like Martes he is a pretty killer way to round out a deal.

Jose Quintana the pitcher is a commodity and like any commodity he is worth what the market will pay. If Coppopela, Luhnow, Huntington and Cashman are all not willing to meet Hahn's price then Hahn's price is too high. That is how a market works. I dont know how much more this has to be explained. Compromise is an essential part of doing business and it is not shameful for the White Sox to meet a potential buyer somewhere in the middle for Quintana. Right now appears clear that Hahn is refusing to budge from outrageous demands, demands that wont be met now nor at the deadline nor next offseason. The risk of keeping Quintana for even spring training far outweighs any benefit. The deadline is not magic. It will not miraculously boost Quintana's value. Its time for the Sox to quit dipping their toes in the pool and get on with the rebuild. Hahn has gone through his salesmanship and assembled interested parties, take the best offer and move on to dealing Frazier, Robertson and (if possible) Melky. That is what is best for the White Sox now.

The only reason Hahn hasn't been burned by refusing to back off what are surely ridiculous demands is because there are no other options out there. Trust me, if Houston or Pittsburgh could find a good lefty elsewhere they would've done that by now. They know they need to shore up their rotations if they want to seriously compete this year and they need to go after Q unless they are willing to deal with an even more ridiculously stubborn Rays front office. It was fine that Hahn started with a really high ask for Quintana but now its time to back off a little and meet these teams halfway. I dont understand the enthusiasm for waiting. That above dynamic that has bailed Hahn out will be gone soon, I really dont know what else to say to those who refuse to believe that. How long have you guys followed baseball? Have you ever seen a pitching market as barren as this one? It wont last, and if you think it will you are letting stubborness cloud your judgment.

See thats good I like that

Miggy could've had a double I dont know why he didn't run.

At least its something.

This team has been so lifeless and boring I'll gladly welcome a mean spirited mfer on the mound throwing gas and talking smack. Who knows if Kopech even is that kind of guy on the mound though.

I dont have a problem at all with Kopech's attitude. He's a pitcher not a politician. Dont you want him to be obsessed with fitness and competition?

Napoli didn't get a QO and wont cost a pick to sign. Also, Napoli sucks. BRUUUUUCEEE

I would if they didn't require a subscription.

There's no way Glasnow is still the #2 best RH pitching prospect in baseball.

https://twitter.com/MichaelKopech5/status/342759612740669441

Fyi- Kopech has stated a goal of throwing a 107 mph pitch in a game.

The only good player left in free agency is Bats and time's running out on him. The best thing going for Q right now is the lack of other options.

huh

I cant read it either and I'm not subscribing to it to find out, but I suspect its premise is that Hahn has some delusions about Jose Quintana's value. Jose Quintana is worth what the market is willing to pay for him, and that is all there is to it. Now a little salesmanship can go a ways to bringing out a maximum return but the fact is teams will only give up so much. After more than a month of talks (that have been admittedly interrupted by the holidays) I dont think there's much work left to do and at this point teams are going to start moving on (ASTROS) from Quintana and find solutions elsewhere. I dont think its impossible that Q's value has already started to decline.