I know I'm a broken record, but it seems silly to me to pay starting pitchers much money when the "goal" appears to be five solid innings max from a guy. It's all about relievers, baby. I wonder if a statnik GM will have the guts to go with an opener for 2-3 innings and follow with relievers the rest of the game in the not so distant future. Really no need to let a pitcher go past five anymore, cause if he gets hit the third time thru the order it causes a fan eruption comparable to a mild earthquake. I know we're trending this way; when is it gonna be the new normal? Opener goes two, followed by the parade of relievers and hence the 4 to 4.5 hour nine inning game? 

p.s. This means no way I would pay rodon a batch of bills.

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I know I'm a broken record, but it seems silly to me to pay starting pitchers much money when the "goal" appears to be five solid innings max from a guy. It's all about relievers, baby. I wonder if a statnik GM will have the guts to go with an opener for 2-3 innings and follow with relievers the rest of the game in the not so distant future. Really no need to let a pitcher go past five anymore, cause if he gets hit the third time thru the order it causes a fan eruption comparable to a mild earthquake. I know we're trending this way; when is it gonna be the new normal? Opener goes two, followed by the parade of relievers and hence the 4 to 4.5 hour nine inning game? 

p.s. This means no way I would pay rodon a batch of bills.

You need starters or your pen's arms will fall off by July.

3 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

You need starters or your pen's arms will fall off by July.

Or post-season...the Rays' downfall.

15 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Or post-season...the Rays' downfall.

Wat do you guys mean? The games I watched, the starters went 1 to 3 innings max. Time has come for all teams to do this all season. Only relievers. You throw as hard as you can (with biting sliders) for an inning or two and give way to the next. Why pay starters? Their job responsibilities have changed drastically from the days of Bob Gibson to now.

6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Wat do you guys mean? The games I watched, the starters went 1 to 3 innings max. Time has come for all teams to do this all season. Only relievers. You throw as hard as you can (with biting sliders) for an inning or two and give way to the next. Why pay starters? Their job responsibilities have changed drastically from the days of Bob Gibson to now.

Let’s get through another full season before confirming that as a universal phenomenon…most teams still don’t follow the Rays’ path, and they have suffered a number of very high profile pitching injuries as well.  Glasnow, McKay, Honeywell, etc.

Edited December 7, 20214 yr by caulfield12

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Let’s get through another full season before confirming that as a universal phenomenon…most teams still don’t follow the Rays’ path, and they have suffered a number of very high profile pitching injuries as well.  Glasnow, McKay, Honeywell, etc.

Statistically, If you look at AL scoring, runs scored from high to low are 6-5-4-3-1-7-8-2-9 innings.  Ninth is obviously lowest since some % of games only has one team batting in 9th.   So it makes sense that in the 6th, pitchers may be approaching their max which is why that inning is the worst. But as we see more data in the hands of stat geeks, the Tampa model may become more prevalent since teams may look to prevent more 3-4-5 inning scoring which would normally be charged to a starter. 

 

Edited December 7, 20214 yr by SCCWS

44 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

Statistically, If you look at AL scoring, runs scored from high to low are 6-5-4-3-1-7-8-2-9 innings.  Ninth is obviously lowest since some % of games only has one team batting in 9th.   So it makes sense that in the 6th, pitchers may be approaching their max which is why that inning is the worst. But as we see more data in the hands of stat geeks, the Tampa model may become more prevalent since teams may look to prevent more 3-4-5 inning scoring which would normally be charged to a starter. 

 

Good post. The trend is obvious as seen in the postseason by old guy LaRussa even. Starters aren't going to be pitching to a batter a third time. Four innings will be a long outing. Thing is, baseball is going to ruin what made it so charming. Pitchers going deep in games. Batters having high batting averages, different categories for pitchers and hitters mattering. Now an RBI is laughed upon. It's HRs or Ks. That's it. Let's just change the game completely. Have a home run derby every night and score it for six innings, then play the final three innings of "traditional baseball" and call it a night. Figure a way to get the derby part of it done in 90 minutes. The three innings will take an hour. 2.5 hrs total. Still a little long but OK.

4 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Good post. The trend is obvious as seen in the postseason by old guy LaRussa even. Starters aren't going to be pitching to a batter a third time. Four innings will be a long outing. Thing is, baseball is going to ruin what made it so charming. Pitchers going deep in games. Batters having high batting averages, different categories for pitchers and hitters mattering. Now an RBI is laughed upon. It's HRs or Ks. That's it. Let's just change the game completely. Have a home run derby every night and score it for six innings, then play the final three innings of "traditional baseball" and call it a night. Figure a way to get the derby part of it done in 90 minutes. The three innings will take an hour. 2.5 hrs total. Still a little long but OK.

We should play baseball like how it was meant to be played...without gloves!

 

2 hours ago, SCCWS said:

Statistically, If you look at AL scoring, runs scored from high to low are 6-5-4-3-1-7-8-2-9 innings.  Ninth is obviously lowest since some % of games only has one team batting in 9th.   So it makes sense that in the 6th, pitchers may be approaching their max which is why that inning is the worst. But as we see more data in the hands of stat geeks, the Tampa model may become more prevalent since teams may look to prevent more 3-4-5 inning scoring which would normally be charged to a starter. 

 

Tampa had 28 pitchers on the IL by the end of July. They go with an opener once and sometimes twice a week. They do not have their starters go only 3 innings during the 162 game. schedule. They have a much shorter leash on them during the post season as all teams do. Tampa does not pay dick to their pitching staff an treats them as exposable commodities. It is not sustainable to have openers go a max of 3 innings everyday for an entire year. Furthermore, why would a pitcher want to pitch in Tampa when they are chewed up ad spit out?

15 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

Tampa had 28 pitchers on the IL by the end of July. They go with an opener once and sometimes twice a week. They do not have their starters go only 3 innings during the 162 game. schedule. They have a much shorter leash on them during the post season as all teams do. Tampa does not pay dick to their pitching staff an treats them as exposable commodities. It is not sustainable to have openers go a max of 3 innings everyday for an entire year. Furthermore, why would a pitcher want to pitch in Tampa when they are chewed up ad spit out?

Right...in the postseason, TOR starters largely reign, or at least guys like McCullers.  What works in the regular season inexorably falls apart without Glasgow. It's the cheapest, most coat efficient way for that particular market, of course.  It's also not so much fun for fans, comparable to excessive shifting.

 

15 hours ago, kleedawg said:

Tampa had 28 pitchers on the IL by the end of July. They go with an opener once and sometimes twice a week. They do not have their starters go only 3 innings during the 162 game. schedule. They have a much shorter leash on them during the post season as all teams do. Tampa does not pay dick to their pitching staff an treats them as exposable commodities. It is not sustainable to have openers go a max of 3 innings everyday for an entire year. Furthermore, why would a pitcher want to pitch in Tampa when they are chewed up ad spit out?

I am not saying Tampa reduced their starters. What the chart shows is that pitchers in innings 4-5-6 give up more runs than in 7 and 8 understanding 9 is not comparable.  So I think the trend could be to pull starters quicker then normally. 

The starting rotation was cooked bc they were going from 40-60 ip to 150-200 ip.   Basically what Kopech is gonna do next season.   

They should re-sign Rodon and probably go with a 6 man rotation at times but not all year.   And definitely no DK