October 28, 200322 yr I was comparing these two pitchers stats. What do you think? Close comparison? Major Difference? Pitcher A is better? Pitcher B is better? What if you were told pitcher A was 5 years younger? G GS W L IP H ER HR BB SO K/9 P/GS WHIP ERA (A)32 32 12 13 191.2 188 96 28 74 108 5.07 95.0 1.37 4.51 (B)34 34 15 13 242.0 223 104 30 67 173 6.43 103.8 1.20 3.87
October 28, 200322 yr I was comparing these two pitchers stats. What do you think? Close comparison? Major Difference? Pitcher A is better? Pitcher B is better? What if you were told pitcher A was 5 years younger? G GS W L IP H ER HR BB SO K/9 P/GS WHIP ERA (A)32 32 12 13 191.2 188 96 28 74 108 5.07 95.0 1.37 4.51 (B)34 34 15 13 242.0 223 104 30 67 173 6.43 103.8 1.20 3.87 This is not even close, pitcher B is head and shoulders better than A. Age is important if A is less than 24 but A appears as an average pitcher (Jon Garland,) and B a stud (Bartolo Colon.)
October 28, 200322 yr I believe its Ponson and Colon. And Ponson does not really make me all excited. Last year I was excited about maybe getting Millwood or Colon. This year, hmm you gotta get a Vazquez or Pettite. But Ponson will want to much for what hes worth. I mean sure, if we can get him at like 5-7 a year, but hell want closer to 8-9. He can sign with a big money club, we need to save our money for players who will be worth it. SB
October 28, 200322 yr its obviously jon g and fartolo i would take bartolo if we can get him for good money otherwise spend the $$ on garland and mark B our future for the next few years
October 28, 200322 yr 2003 - Tot. 31 31 4 216.0 211 94 90 16 61 134 17 12 0 99.6 1.26 .257 3.75 Those were Ponson's combined statistics. So I guess player (A) does not even compare to Ponson. Ponson had lower era, whip, etc/ SB
October 28, 200322 yr Author Pitcher A is Jon Garland, and Pitcher B is Colon. While I definitely would love to see Colon come back, I'm not sure that his stats are that of a dominant Number 1 Starter.
October 28, 200322 yr JD....you did see Colon's stats down the stretch last year when we really needed him, right? Minus the Twins game, he was LIGHTS OUT, and nearly threw a no-hitter(the two hits he gave up in the entire game....homers. We lose 2-1) That's the #1 dominant starter we expected to get. In fact, the game he won against Boston, Hawk called it "one of the best games he's ever seen pitched. It was the kind of game where he said 'You know what I'm going to throw, see if you can hit me' and they couldn't hit him." If Colon is brought back, we would have 3 very goddamn good starters back next year...Colon, Loaiza, and Buehrle, and if Garland could ever pull his panties out of a wad, he could be ok too. We resign Colon and make solid moves, I like our chances. Those solid moves would include getting rid of Maggs and Konerko, who are making $22 mill combined this year.
October 29, 200322 yr I had never seen their stats compared. I was more towards not resigning Colon, but that makes me think.
October 29, 200322 yr Ponson is a very similar pitcher to Bartolo Colon and would be a great pickup at 7 mill, but I wouldn't give anything more.
October 29, 200322 yr Pitcher B is Colon. Pitcher A is Garland. Gimme ... Bartolo that didn't take long
October 29, 200322 yr Author Obviously Pitcher B/Colon is better, but I'm sorry I am not as hell bent on getting Colon back as a lot of other people are. Sure Colon looked "lights out" at time, but overall I never felt like he was a dominant number 1. My point wasn't to say Garland is better, or as good. My point is other than being an innings eater Colon didn't really do anything extraordinary. If he gets 15 mil from someone I'd hope that would come with a 20 win guarantee.
October 29, 200322 yr Pitcher A is Jon Garland, and Pitcher B is Colon. A perfect example of why not every deal should be based on just statistics alone. Garland couldn't carry Colon's jocky strap.
October 29, 200322 yr Pitcher A is Jon Garland, and Pitcher B is Colon. A perfect example of why not every deal should be based on just statistics alone. Garland couldn't carry Colon's jocky strap. Not to get too technical here, but lets look at the numbers that Colon put up at age 24, compared to what Garland did this year (he was 23) First, BARTOLO COLON: Pitching Year Team G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 1997 CLE 19 17 4 7 0 1 0 94.0 107 66 59 12 45 66 5.65 1.62 .000 Now, JON GARLAND: Pitching Year Team G GS W L SV CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB K ERA WHIP BAA 2003 CHA 32 32 12 13 0 0 0 191.2 188 103 96 28 74 108 4.51 1.37 .260 Lets give the kid a bit of time before we say he can't hold Colons jock strap, cuz Colon wasn't exactly Sandy Koufax at the same age.
October 29, 200322 yr Sandy Koufax wasn't Sandy Koufax his first few years in the Bigs, if y ou get my drift........... It is accurate to say that Jon Garland cannot carry Colon's jockstrap right now. But in 5 years, who knows what Garland will have done. I still don't see him being as dominant as Bart sometimes is, but there can certainly be some Major improvement.
October 29, 200322 yr I am of the opinion that Garland could in fact carry Colon's jockstrap. Whether he would want to is another question, but I bet he can. As sizable as the waist band on that thing would be.
October 29, 200322 yr Lets give the kid a bit of time I'm not jumping all over you for this, but JG has been in the majors for how long now? 3? 4 seasons? How much time are we gonna give Garland before Sox fans realize that JG is a .500 at best SP? He has no consistency. He's easily rattled. He has just recently showed slight improvement in pitching over fielding errors. The guy has had at least 3 full seasons to improve from extremely mediocre to slightly above average and, in my opinion, he hasn't done it AND HE'S HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO SHOW SOMETHING. He's a number 4 on a good day and a number 5 on most.
October 29, 200322 yr I'm not jumping all over you for this, but JG has been in the majors for how long now? 3? 4 seasons? How much time are we gonna give Garland before Sox fans realize that JG is a .500 at best SP? He has no consistency. He's easily rattled. He has just recently showed slight improvement in pitching over fielding errors. The guy has had at least 3 full seasons to improve from extremely mediocre to slightly above average and, in my opinion, he hasn't done it AND HE'S HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO SHOW SOMETHING. He's a number 4 on a good day and a number 5 on most. Some guys take longer, Killa. That doesn't mean he will ever get there, but some do. The perfect example is the aforementioned Koufax. You could argue that Koufax had 4 inconsistent, bad to average years (plus two partial seasons before those 4) before he finally found his command and became dominant. Koufax Numbers: 1st 6 Seasons Next 6 Seasons (End of career) G - 174 G - 223 GS - 103 GS - 211 IP - 691.2 IP - 1632.2 W - 36 W - 129 L - 40 L - 47 ERA - 4.10 ERA - 2.19 BB - 405 BB - 412 K - 683 K - 1713 I am not trying to annoint Jon Garland the next Sandy Koufax, but major improvements CAN happen for some pitchers later than others.
October 29, 200322 yr I am not trying to annoint Jon Garland the next Sandy Koufax, but major improvements CAN happen for some pitchers later than others. Maybe a managerial change is what JG needs but I don't see him winning 18-20 anytime soon.
October 29, 200322 yr Maybe a managerial change is what JG needs but I don't see him winning 18-20 anytime soon. I tend to think the same of him as you do. But I also think that it is unwise to give up on a guy with talent too soon. Say what you want, but I feel if the Sox were more patient, Kip Wells would be a really nice piece of the rotation right now.
October 29, 200322 yr I'm not jumping all over you for this, but JG has been in the majors for how long now? 3? 4 seasons? How much time are we gonna give Garland before Sox fans realize that JG is a .500 at best SP? He has no consistency. He's easily rattled. He has just recently showed slight improvement in pitching over fielding errors. The guy has had at least 3 full seasons to improve from extremely mediocre to slightly above average and, in my opinion, he hasn't done it AND HE'S HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO SHOW SOMETHING. He's a number 4 on a good day and a number 5 on most. Rex made some very solid points, and I want to add this one to the mix. The things you mentioned in this post, lack of consistency and easily rattled, are just the type of things a pitcher can overcome with experience and maturity. I know he's had 4 years worth of experience, but he's still very young. Perhaps that maturity is the misssing ingredient in this case. Don't give up on Jonny G yet. I do believe he'll be that 18-20 game winner within 3 or 4 years.
October 29, 200322 yr If want to make a comparison between Garland and another pitcher, then compare him with Kevin Brown. That's more realistic, since they throw the same pitches. Garland will never have the fastball or curveball Koufax did - not even in his greatest dream. Brown's first 5 years in the majors - 12-9 3.35, 12-10 3.60, 9-12 4.40, 21-11 3.32, and 15-12 3.59. I'm not saying Garland will ever be as good as Kevin Brown, and I've gone on record many times saying Garland is "Mike Morgan II," but I'll give it another year. What the hell. I've given it 32 years so far, what's another 365 days of my life? Garland lacks maturity, and confidence. HOPEFULLY, he'll stick two pencils in his ears, pull upward until he hears a pop, and finally get his head out of his ass this year.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.