1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

I wouldn’t call it 4-5 rebuilds.  They have been consistently graduating prospects and flipping them when it’s time to pay them for a long time.  The only one that has been safe is Jose Ramirez and he is VASTLY underpaid 

Retoolings, whatever you want.

Maybe slightly more dramatic when they moved on from a host of All-Stars in the 90s/early 2000s compared to the past 10-15 years or so.

46 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Retoolings, whatever you want.

Maybe slightly more dramatic when they moved on from a host of All-Stars in the 90s/early 2000s compared to the past 10-15 years or so.

The difference is a lot bigger than you want to admit.  They rarely miss the playoffs and never concede seasons.  They have been to 7 out of the last 10 post seasons 

4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

The difference is a lot bigger than you want to admit.  They rarely miss the playoffs and never concede seasons.  They have been to 7 out of the last 10 post seasons 

But not juggernaut teams like 1995-2001 and then the late 2000s again...

11 hours ago, WBWSF said:

The Cleveland-Detroit playoff game in Cleveland yesterday only drew 26,000. There were 8,000 empty seats. I realize that the game was played during the week and during the afternoon. Still,I would think MLB can't be too happy with thar low amount of attendance.

 

11 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Jacobs Field had the longest consecutive sellout mark in the 90s, yes?

4-5 full rebuilds later...here they still are, but fans must be getting sick of it all.

First trading Naylor and Bieber, next will be Kwan.

The team actually retired the number "455" to commemorate the record sellout streak, which ended in April 2001.

https://www.mlb.com/video/indians-the-fans-no-455-c20096121

MLB should take note and be concerned about this.  Half the league can only keep superstars until they reach free agency and they move on to the dozen or so top market teams.  It's hard to sustain national interest in a sport when half the teams have to rebuild every few years - even well-run organizations like Cleveland.  You don't see this in the other major sports.   

Also, pushing the smaller market teams into all workday day games in the first round or two of the playoffs makes it harder to get people to attend and watch those games.  

4 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

 

The team actually retired the number "455" to commemorate the record sellout streak, which ended in April 2001.

https://www.mlb.com/video/indians-the-fans-no-455-c20096121

MLB should take note and be concerned about this.  Half the league can only keep superstars until they reach free agency and they move on to the dozen or so top market teams.  It's hard to sustain national interest in a sport when half the teams have to rebuild every few years - even well-run organizations like Cleveland.  You don't see this in the other major sports.   

Also, pushing the smaller market teams into all workday day games in the first round or two of the playoffs makes it harder to get people to attend and watch those games.  

And they got really really lucky Jose Ramirez sat that front office down and worked out an extension instead of them trading him to the highest bidder.

Odds of that happening just a few years later are probably about 3-5%.

And we shall see soon with Skubal and Skenes.

18 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

 

The team actually retired the number "455" to commemorate the record sellout streak, which ended in April 2001.

https://www.mlb.com/video/indians-the-fans-no-455-c20096121

MLB should take note and be concerned about this.  Half the league can only keep superstars until they reach free agency and they move on to the dozen or so top market teams.  It's hard to sustain national interest in a sport when half the teams have to rebuild every few years - even well-run organizations like Cleveland.  You don't see this in the other major sports.   

Also, pushing the smaller market teams into all workday day games in the first round or two of the playoffs makes it harder to get people to attend and watch those games.  

Part of this is because seemingly half the teams in the NBA and NHL qualify for the playoffs...and the NFL is going in that direction too. And those sports have their share of teams that consistently are terrible Buffalo, Ottawa, Charlotte, Washington, New Orleans, the Raiders, Arizona, the Jets, the Bears, Cleveland, Jacksonville, the Saints.

The NFL, NBA and NHL all have salary caps yet that doesn't make much difference does it?    

It is a choice by teams if they want to pay the going rate for "superstars", they can if they want to, they decide not to. 

That's not on the league, that's on them.

 

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Part of this is because seemingly half the teams in the NBA and NHL qualify for the playoffs...and the NFL is going in that direction too. And those sports have their share of teams that consistently are terrible Buffalo, Ottawa, Charlotte, Washington, New Orleans, the Raiders, Arizona, the Jets, the Bears, Cleveland, Jacksonville, the Saints.

The NFL, NBA and NHL all have salary caps yet that doesn't make much difference does it?    

It is a choice by teams if they want to pay the going rate for "superstars", they can if they want to, they decide not to. 

That's not on the league, that's on them.

 

Dolphins have Tua and now injured Tyreek..where did that get them?

Teams need not just superstars, but they have to be Top 6-8 QB's on rookie contracts, practically.

 

12 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Part of this is because seemingly half the teams in the NBA and NHL qualify for the playoffs...and the NFL is going in that direction too. And those sports have their share of teams that consistently are terrible Buffalo, Ottawa, Charlotte, Washington, New Orleans, the Raiders, Arizona, the Jets, the Bears, Cleveland, Jacksonville, the Saints.

The NFL, NBA and NHL all have salary caps yet that doesn't make much difference does it?    

It is a choice by teams if they want to pay the going rate for "superstars", they can if they want to, they decide not to. 

That's not on the league, that's on them.

 

It looks like MLB has already reached the saturation point of # of teams making the playoffs.  They can't "expand the playoffs" their way out of their problem.

The difference in the other leagues is that it's not just the biggest markets that dominate.  KC has a dynasty in the NFL and Green Bay is a perpetual powerhouse.  The Bills might be the best team in the AFC.  OKC beat Indiana for the NBA title.  The Bucks won a few years ago.  Look at the list of Stanley Cup champs over the last decade - no big market teams.  Yeah, maybe we'll get a Brewers/Mariners WS this year, but let's face it - that'd be unusual and the top 10 big market teams are never far from pennant contention.  

So, you think it's by choice that all the major market MLB teams pay for superstars and all the small market MLB team chose not to?  That's quite an incredible coincidence.  Yeah, there are bad owners (JR, Moreno, Nutting), but it's pretty clear that MLB is dominated by major market teams and smaller market teams struggle to keep success going even when they have a well-run organization. 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2025Oct 2 by 77 Hitmen

3 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

It looks like MLB has already reached the saturation point of # of teams making the playoffs.  They can't "expand the playoffs" their way out of their problem.

The difference in the other leagues is that it's not just the biggest markets that dominate.  KC has a dynasty in the NFL and Green Bay is a perpetual powerhouse.  The Bills might be the best team in the AFC.  OKC beat Indiana for the NBA title.  The Bucks won a few years ago.  Look at the list of Stanley Cup champs over the last decade - no big market teams.  Yeah, maybe we'll get a Brewers/Mariners WS this year, but let's face it - that'd be unusual and the top 10 big market teams are never far from pennant contention.  

So, you think it's by choice that all the major market MLB teams pay for superstars and all the small market MLB team chose not to?  That's quite an incredible coincidence.  Yeah, there are bad owners (JR, Moreno, Nutting), but it's pretty clear that MLB is dominated by major market teams and smaller market teams struggle to keep success going even when they have a well-run organization. 

 

 

Hit: No matter how you phrase it, it still comes down to a decision by each team as to whether they want to pay the going rate for a "superstar" or not. 

Those that won't or can't do so?

Well the answer to me is pretty simple, if you can't afford to compete, get out and sell to someone who can. 

If a team claims or suggests they can't afford to keep top talent, again, simple solution...open the books to an independent economist or forensic accountant and prove it. 

Forgive me if I don't believe for a second teams can't afford to do so. As was shown in the 94-95 labor impasse when for the only time owners agreed to open their books, they were shown to be manipulating things to make it look like they were losing money.

My "solutions" may not be good ones but at least they are something.

Let's put it this way if anyone thinks a salary cap is going to be agreed upon I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

That's not happening...not yesterday, not today and not tomorrow. 

 

Edited October 2, 2025Oct 2 by Lip Man 1