toasty Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 We all know durham wouldnt be back this year, so why not get something for him??? He wasnt having a superb year so we werent gonna get much in return. Adkins is doing better since being in the sox farm system, and should be better yet this year. KW at least got something for him and didnt sit and watch him go for nothing. even if we got a compensation pick if he was signed as a fa that only gives us a pick, which would take longer to develop than a guy like adkins who has some experience already.... relax, y'all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Let it die? We let a guy who has a career of .352 and who's scored 100 runs or more since 1997 for a PIECE OF s*** prospect with an ERA of like over 5 in AAA. Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 Adkins isnt as bad as you think.... I think KW moved durham the way he did cuz thats the last option he had... durham was not having a good year so his trade value was down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Actually when Ray was traded, his BA of .299 and OBA of .390 would have been career highs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 if his career average was .352 as you say then how is a .299 average a career high???? whatcha smokin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 even if his trade value was not down, how many teams traded to get a 2B at the trade deadline??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Bla bla bla... You're already running in circles. I'd rather have just lost Ray to free agency, 'cuz we'd at least get a sandwich round draft pick... Better later contribution that no contribution. Adkins..... What the f***? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 there is no doubt that the Durham trade was bad, but I can't help but wonder what were the other offers. I mean, if Durham was valuable, wouldn't other teams go out and make the Sox an offer? Surely the Adkins offer wasn't the best one. I get it when a bad deal occurs, but this was too bad of a deal. So I wonder, were there any offers at all for Durham? Like toasty said, no other team picked up a secondbaseman and the A's didn't even use him there. Plus, he recently signed with the Giants and they are even reluctant to put him there. Perhaps the A's were the only team after Durham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Well that's fine, so let him go via free agency and take the draft pick. Better to get a shot at getting someone good instead of getting jack s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 I would call the deal bad if i knew that we could have had like vasquez for durham.... but i dont think there was a demand for him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 Adkins, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- International League» Charlotte Knights 07/28 to 09/01 W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR 4 2 0 3.69 8 46.1 47 20 19 12 31 4 Pacific Coast League» Sacramento River Cats 04/08 to 07/22 W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR 7 6 0 6.03 20 97.0 139 74 65 33 76 9 Adkins stats improved drastically after moving to charlotte.... the era needs a bit of help but this season at charlotte will tell the tale.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Molto Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Adkins talent isn't the question. He seems to be a decent pitcher who can be something, BUT the argument is that he wasn't worth much and not even close to Durham's value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted January 17, 2003 Author Share Posted January 17, 2003 durham was only worth what another team was willing to give, and adkins should be better and more developed than a sandwich pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 there is no doubt that the Durham trade was bad, but I can't help but wonder what were the other offers. I mean, if Durham was valuable, wouldn't other teams go out and make the Sox an offer? Surely the Adkins offer wasn't the best one. I get it when a bad deal occurs, but this was too bad of a deal. So I wonder, were there any offers at all for Durham? Like toasty said, no other team picked up a secondbaseman and the A's didn't even use him there. Plus, he recently signed with the Giants and they are even reluctant to put him there. Perhaps the A's were the only team after Durham. if he didn't get what he wanted, then fold and keep him. let him walk at the end. its called playing hard-ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Well that's fine, so let him go via free agency and take the draft pick. Better to get a shot at getting someone good instead of getting jack s***. At the time the Durham trade was made, it was widely assumed that sandwich picks for FA's would be eliminated in the new CBA. Durham was doing fine with the Sox last year, but the team was going nowhere. Durham was gone anyway and they needed to check out the kids. If it was assured that the sandwich pick would have still been there, then yes, I'd say it was a bad deal. I think it was a matter of trying to make the best out of a bad situation. If Adkins even makes it to the Sox as a halfway decent long reliever, it's better than the nothing it appeared we were going to get at the time of the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Im sorry toasty. Im not going to argue with you but I cant forget Ray. Behind Thomas he is my favorite Sox player ever (Im only 15 so I dont remember guys like Pudge...) and I just wont let him go. Honestly, I dont think Adkins will ever be that good but im fine with that since our rotation seems all set. Maybe he could relieve but all in all, we dont really need him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Well that's fine, so let him go via free agency and take the draft pick. Better to get a shot at getting someone good instead of getting jack s***. At the time the Durham trade was made, it was widely assumed that sandwich picks for FA's would be eliminated in the new CBA. Durham was doing fine with the Sox last year, but the team was going nowhere. Durham was gone anyway and they needed to check out the kids. If it was assured that the sandwich pick would have still been there, then yes, I'd say it was a bad deal. I think it was a matter of trying to make the best out of a bad situation. If Adkins even makes it to the Sox as a halfway decent long reliever, it's better than the nothing it appeared we were going to get at the time of the trade. it wasn't the fact of not getting anything worth whike, or the comp pick, which i agree with you it was not suppose to be there, what got me was that he got fleeced. he shouldn't have made the trade if he didn't get what he wanted or gotten something better. so what, he would not have anything to show for ray departure, i am sure fans would understand to a certain extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 If we had just lost Ray, there would have been so much yelling and screaming we all would ha ve gone deaf. that would be so especially if the sandiwch picks were eliminated as everyone thought they would be. "We should have traded Ray and at least get something rather than some damned sandwich pick." The fact that Ray slid over to the Giants tells me again that his value is not what we all thought it should be. Sad but true. We put Ray on eBay and got Adkins. The As put Ray on eBay and what did they get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 If we had just lost Ray, there would have been so much yelling and screaming we all would ha ve gone deaf. that would be so especially if the sandiwch picks were eliminated as everyone thought they would be. "We should have traded Ray and at least get something rather than some damned sandwich pick." The fact that Ray slid over to the Giants tells me again that his value is not what we all thought it should be. Sad but true. We put Ray on eBay and got Adkins. The As put Ray on eBay and what did they get? if kw would have said to all that all he was offered was a life long triple A pit, i am sure the fans would understand. the one part that stills bothers me is there was talk before the actual trade of other teams being interested then it went away. what really happen there or was kw asking for too much? regardless of what we thought or what anyone thought, kw should have folded when a little was offered. ref to sfo being the only team interested, look at the other fa's who hasn't sign. you can't put the blame on the situation that hardly anyone went after him. look you have kenny rogers, puge, and several more fa's who hasn't sign. was or is ray worth what he is earning, that depends on the team who signs him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 what you say is all well and good, as is what I posted - our problem as observers is we just do not know what the real market is because none of us are in it. We can only speculate. We can only assume based on what we think went on behind closed doors in a world that we have all watched from a distance but have never been in. I was none to happy when the Durham for Adkins trade was made but as I look back, I am not sure that that was not the best deal under the circumstancess. There is no way of knowing. I do believe that whatever route KW went there would be weeping and unhappiness and complaints. In that case, I think the thread title says it all. For every GM, what is the deciding line in our own minds? None are as smart as they think or as dumb as we think. I get tired of the constant complaints against KW when I cannot get past the fact the Schueler signed Navarro over Clemens and hired Bevington. So anybody after Schueler was a good deal for me. Others will disagree with me on Schueler and point to other things positive that he had done. It is all a matter of picking and choosing what we think we want to make an issue out of. That is not to say that I am a big fan of KW either. I have my complaints about him. But I simply cannot make up my mind on him overall. I do know that continually looking back at the Durham deal is not going to help the cause one bit in 2003, but that is what fans do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 We all know durham wouldnt be back this year, so why not get something for him??? He wasnt having a superb year so we werent gonna get much in return. Adkins is doing better since being in the sox farm system, and should be better yet this year. KW at least got something for him and didnt sit and watch him go for nothing. even if we got a compensation pick if he was signed as a fa that only gives us a pick, which would take longer to develop than a guy like adkins who has some experience already.... relax, y'all! Hmmm... Did you forget that while we got jack crap for Ray, we also got to continue to PAY 75% of his salary..? Oh yea.. GREAT deal. And for the record, Ray had agreed to sign a 2 year deal for less than was being reported. He left the park 2 days before he was traded being told "you're staying". He offered to clean out his locker so he wouldn't have to come back! They stabbed him in the back. I'm glad they got screwed. I hope Adkins arm falls off, they trade him, his new team re-attaches it, and he wins 20 games 5 years in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 And for the record, Ray had agreed to sign a 2 year deal for less than was being reported. He left the park 2 days before he was traded being told "you're staying". He offered to clean out his locker so he wouldn't have to come back! They stabbed him in the back. I would like to see documented proof of that for the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 And for the record, Ray had agreed to sign a 2 year deal for less than was being reported. He left the park 2 days before he was traded being told "you're staying". He offered to clean out his locker so he wouldn't have to come back! They stabbed him in the back. I would like to see documented proof of that for the record. Ray's word is good enough for me. I've known Ray for 6 years and Crystal for almost 8 years. I was friends with Crystal before she even met Ray and was dating JB. I'm not going to get into anymore details about who and what I may or may not know.. but a lot of people at WSI and the AOL boards know my facts are facts. Besides, Ray would not lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjmarte Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Geez, I'm impressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted January 17, 2003 Share Posted January 17, 2003 Geez, I'm impressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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