Yoda Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 To put it simply, Wood, Prior, Mddux, Clement and Zambrano are gonna crush Sox offense and their offense is gonbna beat up on the Sox pitching. 5-1 Cubs. Now let's get Garcia, Finley and hope Prior, Wood, Sosa, Clement, Alou all get f***ed up. Then Sox could beat up on the Cubs. The Cubs still have the same pitchers from last year (except Maddux of course) but I’m not really sure if we faced Prior or not. I remember we crushed Zambrano in the Cell last year. And remember that 12-2 win? Whoever started that game was surely crushed as well. But let’s not forget the sweep we missed. The Cubs got lucky. I remember it was Wood vs. Loaiza (who was 11-2) at the Cell and the Cubs managed to give Loaiza his 3rd loss of the year. I have confidence in our players. Our starting pitchers are as good as Baker's. Schoeneweis (I’m not sure if the Cubs know him or not) Loaiza Buehrle Garland And if we do get Garcia (before June25) then it would be one hell of a series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Their offense is too streaky (kind of like ours, except our leadoff hitters are MUCH better.) IMO. The Cubs really should have pursued Luis Castillo, he'd set the table perfectly. Pettitte-Clemons-Oswalt-Miller-(Who is their fifth starter anyways?) vs. Wood-Prior-Clement-Zambrano-Maddux vs. St. Louis Offense, and sometimes Matt Morris. vs. Reds offense, and a reserugant (sp?) pitching staff. vs. Heroics of the Brew Crew and the Bucs. Fun in the NL Central. You're right about that one. That's gonna be a really fun race to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 So you specify all the negatives with their pitching against our offense. But how would their offense fair against our pitching? I say we have a big advantage there. I think we take at least 4 from the Cubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Ill be happy with a split, but thrilled with four out of six. I've heard we get Prior twice which blows, but I'm hoping we get a lot of Greg Maddux and Glendon Rusch too... Like it or not, this is the best Cub team we've had to face ever during interleague. While I'm not as pessimistic as Brando (1-5), I'll be happy with a split. Anything more and I'll be thrilled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 And didn't Hawkins suck ass as a closer with the Twins? You've never heard of a pitcher maturing before? Assuming Baker puts Hawkins in at closer(and he should), Hawkins will be fine. And it's like I said, if Hawkins isn't fine, they'll do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 You've never heard of a pitcher maturing before? Assuming Baker puts Hawkins in at closer(and he should), Hawkins will be fine. And it's like I said, if Hawkins isn't fine, they'll do something about it. A pitcher maturing? Like Billy Koch? If he matured he would actually be good? If you can't close you can't close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Pettitte-Clemons-Oswalt-Miller-(Who is their fifth starter anyways?) Carlos Hernandez is tough lefty. Robertson too. They are solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Carlos Hernandez is tough lefty. Robertson too. They are solid. Tim Redding is their 5th starter. He had a very good 3.68 era last year. He's kinda struggling this year though. His era is over 5. If he can turn it around and get that era more towards last years that rotation when healthy is every bit as good as the Slubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 A pitcher maturing? Like Billy Koch? If he matured he would actually be good? If you can't close you can't close. Hawkins hasn't been given a shot to close since 2001! He was a s***ty pitcher prior to 2001 and and was just as bad in 2001. In 2002 and 2003 he was a very good pitcher, albeit, not closing. Who says he can't close now? Billy Koch is different. He has been a very good closer before. I think I remember hearing about how he had the most saves through the first 4 years of his career then anybody ever(or something to that extent). Koch has gone from being a good closer to being a s***ty pitcher. Hawkins went from being a s***ty closer to a very good setup guy. BTW...going from being a setup guy to closer is not unheard of. Hell, Octavio Dotel is doing it in Houston this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Carlos Hernandez is tough lefty. Robertson too. They are solid. Robertson got traded to Cleveland in ST. I assume Houston figured with Clemens-Oswalt-Pettitte-Miller-Redding and then Duckworth and Hernandez, Robertson was expendable. Damn how that has bitten them in the ass. Redding has been mediocre this year, and Duckworth has been awful too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Hawkins hasn't been given a shot to close since 2001! He was a s***ty pitcher prior to 2001 and and was just as bad in 2001. In 2002 and 2003 he was a very good pitcher, albeit, not closing. Who says he can't close now? Billy Koch is different. He has been a very good closer before. I think I remember hearing about how he had the most saves through the first 4 years of his career then anybody ever(or something to that extent). Koch has gone from being a good closer to being a s***ty pitcher. Hawkins went from being a s***ty closer to a very good setup guy. BTW...going from being a setup guy to closer is not unheard of. Hell, Octavio Dotel is doing it in Houston this year. I'm going by the history. History says he can't close..Until he proves otherwise that's my opinion on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 I'm going by the history. History says he can't close..Until he proves otherwise that's my opinion on it. If that's your opinion, then Shingo Takatsu is not a major league closer either. History says he hasn't been able to close(or that he hasn't been given the opportunity to close). Hawkins will be used as closer, and if he can't get the job done, someone will be brought in. How many times have I said that now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 If that's your opinion, then Shingo Takatsu is not a major league closer either. History says he hasn't been able to close(or that he hasn't been given the opportunity to close). Hawkins will be used as closer, and if he can't get the job done, someone will be brought in. How many times have I said that now? That's a very dumb comparison. He's the all-time saves leader in Japan. And has never given up a run in post-season play. As far as him closing gms in the major leagues. We've never seen him do it..Therefore you can't forge an opinion. We've seen Latroy close at the major league level, AND HE SUCKED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 No. Good righties, with the exception of Roger Clemens, kill us. I can only hope Jose and Gload are ready, because they will be needed(assuming Steve Finley isn't brought in in the meantime), being our only LH power hitters and all. I would be happy with 3-3 as well. I like our starting pitching, but our 1-4 If their rotation can be healthy for 3 months(as in Prior-Wood-Zambrano-Maddux-Clement), they could go on a .700+ streak, no matter how good the offense is. What's even scarier to think about is that the Cubs are a good leadoff hitter away from running away with the division WITHOUT Sammy and Wood. I want to amend that. It is soft-tossing righties that give the Sox fits. The Sox are a fastball hitting team, and hit fastball pitchers well. It is the guys who throw the outer half junk that kill our hitters. The Sox have a decent history against the Cubs big 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 If that's your opinion, then Shingo Takatsu is not a major league closer either. History says he hasn't been able to close(or that he hasn't been given the opportunity to close). Hawkins will be used as closer, and if he can't get the job done, someone will be brought in. How many times have I said that now? Doesn't Hawkins already have a couple blown saves this year? I believe he has 4 saves and 2 blown saves this year. I don't think you want a 67% chance from your closer to save the game. That is this years stats, so I don't know how much he has matured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 The Cubs still have the same pitchers from last year (except Maddux of course) but I’m not really sure if we faced Prior or not. I remember we crushed Zambrano in the Cell last year. And remember that 12-2 win? Whoever started that game was surely crushed as well. But let’s not forget the sweep we missed. The Cubs got lucky. I remember it was Wood vs. Loaiza (who was 11-2) at the Cell and the Cubs managed to give Loaiza his 3rd loss of the year. I have confidence in our players. Our starting pitchers are as good as Baker's. Schoeneweis (I’m not sure if the Cubs know him or not) Loaiza Buehrle Garland And if we do get Garcia (before June25) then it would be one hell of a series Last year, Sox got LUCKY they avoided losing the 1st two at the Cell (Cubs had bases loaded a lot and hung frozen ropes at people a lot, esp in the Danny Wright start), whereas they won the 3rd game fair and square. Sox were NOT better than the Cubs in 2003 head-to-head despite lucking out with a 4-2 record. Cubs had a better team than the Sox did and played in a tougher division. Whether you and other biased Sox fans accept this that I couldn't care less. Furthermore, Sox didn't face Prior ONCE and only had Wood once (got beat handily). Zambrano beat us. Sox did beat Clement, but he was going through his "fall behind, hang a slider" phase - the Clement Sox will face later this month will have an unhittable slider and will not begin to unravel until late July at the earliest. Finally, Sox beat that loser who pitches for Colorado now. By the time Sox face the Cubs, there won't be Mitre or Rusch to knock around. Prior-Zambrano-Wood-Clement-Maddux, the best rotation in the game. Sox pitching "as good" as Cubs pitching? Is this a joke? Stop lying to yourself, you'll feel better. Our #1 Buerhle would be a #4 on the Cubs - at best. Sosa will be back with a bang (probably back on the juice cycle, too). Derek Lee will be riding his typical summer groove. Alou and Ramirez are always MONEY. Todd Walker should be out of his slump and Barret is having everybit as good a season as Olivo. Whatever they get out of bum Patterson and bench extraordinaire Hollansworth would be a bonus. To say that they couldn't handle Sox pitching is crazy. Rotations that have Garland as #3 and Shoenweiss as #4 ordinarily don't dominate ANYBODY. 1-5 is what Sox are looking at realistically. I am not wrong a lot (Willie Harris notwithstanding), but if I am wrong here and Sox end up taking 5 out of 6 or double-sweeping.....well, that suits me just fine. :fthecubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Last year, Sox got LUCKY they avoided losing the 1st two at the Cell (Cubs had bases loaded a lot and hung frozen ropes at people a lot, esp in the Danny Wright start), whereas they won the 3rd game fair and square. Sox were NOT better than the Cubs in 2003 head-to-head despite lucking out with a 4-2 record. Cubs had a better team than the Sox did and played in a tougher division. Whether you and other biased Sox fans accept that I could care less. Furthermore, Sox didn't face Prior ONCE and only had Wood once (got beat handily). Zambrano beat us. Sox did beat Clement, but he was going through his "fall behind, hang a slider" phase - the Clement Sox will face later this month will have an unhittable slider and will not begin to unravel until late July at the earliest. Finally, Sox beat that loser who pitches for Colorado now. By the time Sox face the Cubs, there won't be Mitre or Rusch to knock around. Prior-Zambrano-Wood-Clement-Maddux. Sox pitching "as good" as Cubs pitching? Is this a joke? Stop lying to yourself, you'll feel better. Our #1 Buerhle would be a #4 on the Cubs - at best. Sosa will be back with a bang (probably back on the juice cycle, too). Derek Lee will be riding his typical summer groove. Alou and Ramirez are always MONEY. Todd Walker should be out of his slump and Barret is having everybit as good a season as Olivo. Whatever they get out of bum Patterson and bench extraordinaire Hollansworth would be a bonus. To say that they couldn't handle Sox pitching is crazy. Rotations that have Garland as #3 and Shoenweiss as #4 ordinarily don't dominate ANYBODY. 1-5 is what Sox are looking at realistically. I am not wrong a lot (Willie Harris notwithstanding), but if I am wrong here and Sox end up taking 5 out of 6 or double-sweeping.....well, that suits me just fine. :fthecubs Yeah, umm, thank God your a White Sox fan and not a White Sox hater. I coulnd't imagine what your posts would look like then. You fail to mention how the Sox starting pitching is pretty damn good as wel and the Cubs lineup is not anywhere near what the Sox lineup is. Always the pessimist. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Yeah, umm, thank God your a White Sox fan and not a White Sox hater. I coulnd't imagine what your posts would look like then. You fail to mention how the Sox starting pitching is pretty damn good as wel and the Cubs lineup is not anywhere near what the Sox lineup is. Always the pessimist. Whatever But not really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 That's a very dumb comparison. He's the all-time saves leader in Japan. And has never given up a run in post-season play. As far as him closing gms in the major leagues. We've never seen him do it..Therefore you can't forge an opinion. We've seen Latroy close at the major league level, AND HE SUCKED. How's it dumb? Shingo's never closed in the major leagues. I don't care if he's closed in Japan before or not, he's never closed in the majors, period. Hawkins closed when he was a s***ty pitcher. He is no longer a s***ty pitcher. And even if he sucks at closing out games...as I said before, the Cubs will find someone who will close out games. Be it Urbina, Mesa, Smoltz, whomever. They will fine someone. I'd rather have Hawkins closing for me then Koch or Borowski, I can tell you that much for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Doesn't Hawkins already have a couple blown saves this year? I believe he has 4 saves and 2 blown saves this year. I don't think you want a 67% chance from your closer to save the game. That is this years stats, so I don't know how much he has matured. He's been a setup man this year, and BS's can be a misleading stat for setup guys. Regardless, that's about a BS per month. I could handle that, and I'm pretty sure the Cubs could too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 He's been a setup man this year, and BS's can be a misleading stat for setup guys. Regardless, that's about a BS per month. I could handle that, and I'm pretty sure the Cubs could too. 67% of normal save chances for a closer would not only equal out to a blown save per month. It would be way more than that. He is a Cub and a former Twin, so I could really care less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Blown saves for setup guys don't mean s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Jesus gave up a run already against the Cards. Uh oh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flippedoutpunk Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Renteria with the grand salami off of the messiah!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Robertson got traded to Cleveland in ST. I assume Houston figured with Clemens-Oswalt-Pettitte-Miller-Redding and then Duckworth and Hernandez, Robertson was expendable. Damn how that has bitten them in the ass. Redding has been mediocre this year, and Duckworth has been awful too. I was thinking he may have been dealt, but I couldn't remember and I haven't seen his name much. He did solid last year. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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