CWSGuy406 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I'm getting this partly from another board, and partly from my memory of either hearing it/reading it somewhere on ESPN.com/ESPN (My apologies, no linky.). But - the Sox would send prospects to Pitt, and Pitt would eat a good chunk of Kendall's future salary. Kendall obviously makes a lot of money, and the only way I make this deal is if they eat a good portion of Kendall's salary, not just this year, but down the road as well. Kendall would be a great number 2 hitter for us. He's a great contact hitter, kind of like Randall Simon except will take a walk. Doesn't strike out a lot and he walks a lot. I love the way he plays. If Kenny makes this deal, I think a lot of us would forget Miguel Olivo really fast. And considering how the Cubs fleeced Pittsburg last year, giving up the awesome Bobby Hill, I think we have a serious shot at Kendall without giving up the farm. Rauch-Spidale/Brice/Young-Lower Level Prospect for Kendall (and Pitt eats a lot of the salary?) Am I being realistic here? I know a lot of people don't like just 'rumors', but since I saw it/heard it on ESPN/ESPN.com, I wanted to let you guys know, if only for discussion purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy2121 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I'm getting this partly from another board, and partly from my memory of either hearing it/reading it somewhere on ESPN.com/ESPN (My apologies, no linky.). But - the Sox would send prospects to Pitt, and Pitt would eat a good chunk of Kendall's future salary. Kendall obviously makes a lot of money, and the only way I make this deal is if they eat a good portion of Kendall's salary, not just this year, but down the road as well. Kendall would be a great number 2 hitter for us. He's a great contact hitter, kind of like Randall Simon except will take a walk. Doesn't strike out a lot and he walks a lot. I love the way he plays. If Kenny makes this deal, I think a lot of us would forget Miguel Olivo really fast. And considering how the Cubs fleeced Pittsburg last year, giving up the awesome Bobby Hill, I think we have a serious shot at Kendall without giving up the farm. Rauch-Spidale/Brice/Young-Lower Level Prospect for Kendall (and Pitt eats a lot of the salary?) Am I being realistic here? I know a lot of people don't like just 'rumors', but since I saw it/heard it on ESPN/ESPN.com, I wanted to let you guys know, if only for discussion purposes. that would be awesome, but it just sounds too good to be true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 By a good chunk of his contract...are you talking like 50% or more of the $34 mill he is due from 05-07? I mean, if that's the case, bring him on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 No to Kendall on all counts. We will be fine finishing the year with the Alomar/Burke/Davis platoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 By a good chunk of his contract...are you talking like 50% or more of the $34 mill he is due from 05-07? I mean, if that's the case, bring him on. I just saw/heard 'eat a portion of the contract.' But didn't when they traded Giles, eat up ALL of his contract? I know they got Oliver Perez in that deal, but if, say, we ask them to eat half of it, I think Rauch and a couple of prospects could do. IMO they are really desperate to move his contract. If they eat half of it, we pay half of it, I'd be happy. He would be the hitter we need in our lineup (the Reed type, high average, high OBP). Right before Big Hurt and Maggs, that would be awesome. I've always loved Kendall, just hated his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 No to Kendall on all counts. We will be fine finishing the year with the Alomar/Burke/Davis platoon. i want some of what youre smokin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 i think well be fine here, i say get more pitching to make a HUGE push for the ALCS and the WS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 i want some of what youre smokin Why exactly do we need to go out and get a catcher? Our offense is good enough to compensate for a catcher who hits just .250. After all, Olivo was hitting .270 and only playing roughly 2 to 3 times per week. We will surely miss him on defense, but Alomar is a veteran with postseason experience and Burke and/or Davis are ample backups. I like Olivo for his potential, but right now he really had little to do with our success this season up to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 my reasoning is simple.... sandy wont last the season used for more than 2 games per week, with occasional 3 eight knee surgeries and at least one on his shoulder and creeping towards 40..... not what you want to count on down the stretch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 of course, on another note, the m's are likely to send veteran pat borders back to the minors... maybe we can have two old catchers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 my reasoning is simple.... sandy wont last the season used for more than 2 games per week, with occasional 3 eight knee surgeries and at least one on his shoulder and creeping towards 40..... not what you want to count on down the stretch Okay, so explain to me what Olivo was doing that Davis or Burke won't have a chance to step in and do? He wasn't setting the world on fire and you will be hard pressed to find anyone that says, damn, we're contending because of Miguel Olivo. The guy has potential to be great, but he wasn't going to make or break our season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 Why exactly do we need to go out and get a catcher? Our offense is good enough to compensate for a catcher who hits just .250. After all, Olivo was hitting .270 and only playing roughly 2 to 3 times per week. We will surely miss him on defense, but Alomar is a veteran with postseason experience and Burke and/or Davis are ample backups. I like Olivo for his potential, but right now he really had little to do with our success this season up to this point. I'm not saying to go out and give top prospects up for him. I do this deal on two contingents (sp?): 1.) Pitt pays at LEAST half of his remaining contract. 2.) None of Borchard/Anderson/Sweeney/Honel (Any of the top prospects) are included. I also think this is a possibility, because: The Cubs were able to totally fleece them last year. Why can't we do the same? Pittsburg really wants to rid themselves of the big contract. If they pay for half or more than half of the contract, they'll still be removing some payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 my reasoning is simple.... sandy wont last the season used for more than 2 games per week, with occasional 3 eight knee surgeries and at least one on his shoulder and creeping towards 40..... not what you want to count on down the stretch We'll have no trouble getting a backup catcher. Hell, Brent Mayne can be had out of Arizona for practically nothing(I think he's healthy anyways). Greg Myers in Toronto would cost a bag of balls. There are tons of mediocre catchers available...give me one that will stay healthy that calls a good game, blocks the plate well, and has a good arm, and can hit between .230-.250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Aboz has some good points. Kendall is good offensive player, but is somewhat on the weak side defensively and his handling of ppitchers has been questioned, if memory serves me correctly. We need a solid defensive catcher if only as a late inning replacement and to give Sandy a breather. Burke's flexibility gives Ozzie some options, too. Kendall's good, but that's a lot of jack they are paying him. Also, I'm not sure MLB rules would allow Pittsburg to pay any of his salary beyond this year. They can send enough cash to cover the rest of this year's salary, but the Sox would have the whole enchilada beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 see... alomar is our backup.... so unless burke suddenly gets a performance boost and takes the situation over, we need a main catcher now the only thing that we can hope in current situation is walker can work a miracle with davis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Okay, so explain to me what Olivo was doing that Davis or Burke won't have a chance to step in and do? How about an OPS of 1.402 vs. LHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 see... alomar is our backup.... so unless burke suddenly gets a performance boost and takes the situation over, we need a main catcher now the only thing that we can hope in current situation is walker can work a miracle with davis All that we need from Alomar & Co is solid defense and game calling with a little offensive contribution. I would not at all be upset if the plan was to go with our current catchers the rest of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 If the Sox give up CHris Young for Jason Kendall...ICK is all I can say. However, Kendall would be a good fit on the southside if the Sox end up paying him 5-6 mill a year for the remainder of the contract. If the Pirates eat that much of the contract, then they can have a Jon Rauch caliber prospect and one lower level prospect, but I wouldn't give up anymore then that. Its still a big contract to take on, however, at 5 or 6 mill a year (what the Sox would owe) they could keep him this year and then once again consider movnig him. Heck Rauch and Ben Davis may be enough to get him depending on the amount of contract the Pirates would eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 How about an OPS of 1.402 vs. LHP. And that won a ton of games for us... When you look at the keys to the season, Miguel Olivo's OPS versus left handed pitching is not a glaring key. Get me a guy who can call a good game, lay down the bunt when needed and play good defense with an occasional clutch hit and we are fine. As I've said, if we don't keep Garcia beyond the season, we got burned on this deal. But look at it this way, would you rather have Jon Rauch throwing to Miguel Olivo for the rest of the year or Freddy Garcia throwing to Burke/Alomar/Davis? Pitching wins. We needed pitching, our starters ERA was like 24th in MLB and we are the best offensive team in baseball. Miguel's OPS versus LHP is nice, but a front line starter is more important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Burke just doesnt have the same offensive potential that MO did/does.... and to rely on sandy for that and maybe davis is not smart yeah sure, burke's average is high right now, but that is on limited playing time... his average in AAA is almost 60 points below mo's average. even ryan hankins in AAA has a better average, even considering that is AAA pitching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Burke just doesnt have the same offensive potential that MO did/does.... and to rely on sandy for that and maybe davis is not smart yeah sure, burke's average is high right now, but that is on limited playing time... his average in AAA is almost 60 points below mo's average. even ryan hankins in AAA has a better average, even considering that is AAA pitching You are obviously not listening to the points expressed in this thread, so I'll stop trying to convince you of anything. All you really need to know is that a stud pitcher is more important NOW than Olivo's potential down the line. A catcher doesn't need to do much besides hit .250 and call a good game with good D. We have guys capable of doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toasty Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 i fully agree that the garcia trade was worth it.. but kenny needs to get another catcher.... if it isnt kendall, so be it, but need more stability than an old catcher and a perenial minor league catcher/utillity --- if alomar goes down do you feel comfy with only burke/davis for the pennant run and post season??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Burke just doesnt have the same offensive potential that MO did/does.... and to rely on sandy for that and maybe davis is not smart yeah sure, burke's average is high right now, but that is on limited playing time... his average in AAA is almost 60 points below mo's average. even ryan hankins in AAA has a better average, even considering that is AAA pitching I don't know how many times Aboz has said this...and I completely agree with him. WE DON'T NEED OFFENSE OUT OF OUR CATCHER. We need a guy who calls a good game, has good defense, has a good arm, and can handle the bat. If you want a comparison, Mark Johnson could work(I do not want him back, but he would be a possibility). Ben Davis with Alomar and Burke will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 i fully agree that the garcia trade was worth it.. but kenny needs to get another catcher.... if it isnt kendall, so be it, but need more stability than an old catcher and a perenial minor league catcher/utillity WHICH IS WHY WE GOT BEN DAVIS TOO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 I don't know how many times Aboz has said this...and I completely agree with him. WE DON'T NEED OFFENSE OUT OF OUR CATCHER. We need a guy who calls a good game, has good defense, has a good arm, and can handle the bat. If you want a comparison, Mark Johnson could work(I do not want him back, but he would be a possibility). Ben Davis with Alomar and Burke will be fine. Agreed. And as for Olivo's OPS vs LHP, we have enough RH pop to cover that against lefties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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