I can see the numbers fine.  But I can also see the numbers on the radar gun.  His speeds are down 6-7 mph over last year.

I'm not, I see him throwing 91-92 mostly, down from 94-95 last yr.

I'm not, I see him throwing 91-92 mostly, down from 94-95 last yr.

I always see him at 87-88. So who knows.

I can see the numbers fine.  But I can also see the numbers on the radar gun.  His speeds are down 6-7 mph over last year.

He's had his velocity up this year at times but for most of the year it has been down. However I don't think it's his velocity which is making him that much worse this year, his location has been so awful and that's his main problem,imo, if he had the same control as last year he'd be fine.

I can see the numbers fine.  But I can also see the numbers on the radar gun.  His speeds are down 6-7 mph over last year.

I really don’t see what the hell is up with his speed change and all that s***. Look at Bartolo Colon, he can still pitch 95mph or even more, but still gets his ass kicked on occasions. I look at Greg Maddux and he can’t hit 90+ anymore, but he is still going for his 300th and just got his 9th victory yesterday afternoon. I say BAN the speed guns because it doesn’t help at all. What a pitcher has to do (like Loaiza) is try to locate the ball where the hitter can’t hit it or otherwise you’re going to get hurt.

Once again, look at the numbers - they don't lie.

 

Estaban Loaiza's last 4 years:

 

2001 - 190.0 IP, 239 H, 106ER, 27 HR, 110 K, 11-11, 5.02 ERA

 

2002 - 151.1 IP, 192 H, 96 ER, 18 HR, 87 K, 9-10, 5.74 ERA

 

2003 - 226.1 IP, 196 H, 73 ER, 17 HR, 207 K, 21-9, 2.90 ERA

 

2004 - 127.2 IP, 141 H, 68 ER, 19 HR, 74 K, 8-5, 4.79 ERA

 

 

The guy is mediocre.  He had his career year last year.  But if you want to believe otherwise, or think that he's "hurt," so be it.  It's a free country.

I can also see the numbers earlier in his career when he didn't have his cutter. This year, he is playing through an injury that has his velocity down.

He has a tendon injury in his shoulder or elbow which is causing the lack of velocity, he's trying to nurse it through the season. 

Perhaps that is why he is not getting that sharp movement on his pitches. Still, if he doesn't turn it around it looks more and more like last year is an aberration. With Buerhle and Garcia going strong, and Garland somewhat improved, our post season hopes would soar if Loaiza could get back on track.

Say what you want about this team.  We're not going anywhere unless this guy takes his head out his ass.  He wants more money?  He wants Garica money?  EARN IT.  Prove to everybody last year wasn't a fluke.  Buehrle and Garcia just shut down one of the best offensive line-ups in baseball.  Loaiza is pitching tomorrow.  Will he step up like a TRUE ace should?  Or will he continue to pitch Loaiza style pre-2003?  Will find out soon enough.

well?

Say what you want about this team.  We're not going anywhere unless this guy takes his head out his ass.  He wants more money?  He wants Garica money?  EARN IT.  Prove to everybody last year wasn't a fluke.  Buehrle and Garcia just shut down one of the best offensive line-ups in baseball.  Loaiza is pitching tomorrow.  Will he step up like a TRUE ace should?  Or will he continue to pitch Loaiza style pre-2003?  Will find out soon enough.

I don't think it is fair to compare him to last years totals. That was an excellent season, and we knew going into this thing that Loaiza would never be as good as last year.

 

However, in spite of that, I don't see us re-signing him.

Did anyone really expect Loaiza to match last year?

I don't think anyone was expecting 21-9 2.90 again...if they were, they were fooling themselves.

 

But I think we all were expecting an ERA around 3.50, let alone the ERA of 4.80+ that he actually has.

 

If we can't get Unit, the next best thing we have to try to do is pick up a guy that has very good stuff and hope he can put it together...ala Carl Pavano last year. If we can get Tony Armas for very little, I say, at the very least, try it. If he doesn't work out of the rotation, throw him out of the pen, and see if he works there. Armas would essentially be a low-risk, high-reward type guy...ala Flash Gordon from last year, Cliff Politte this year, Shingo, Rick White, Brian Daubach, etc...some pan out, some don't. We just hope Armas pans out.

well?

He was ok tonight. I gave him props in another thread. I'm greedy though. I wanna see him pitch better.

I don't think anyone was expecting 21-9 2.90 again...if they were, they were fooling themselves.

 

But I think we all were expecting an ERA around 3.50, let alone the ERA of 4.80+ that he actually has.

 

If we can't get Unit, the next best thing we have to try to do is pick up a guy that has very good stuff and hope he can put it together...ala Carl Pavano last year.  If we can get Tony Armas for very little, I say, at the very least, try it.  If he doesn't work out of the rotation, throw him out of the pen, and see if he works there.  Armas would essentially be a low-risk, high-reward type guy...ala Flash Gordon from last year, Cliff Politte this year, Shingo, Rick White, Brian Daubach, etc...some pan out, some don't.  We just hope Armas pans out.

I'd call that wishful thinking, though I have to admit I am/was guilty of that also. His career numbers indicate that you could expect a high 4 something ERA, at least.

He has a tendon injury in his shoulder or elbow which is causing the lack of velocity, he's trying to nurse it through the season. 

If you watch his delivery it does seem like he's almost pitching uphill, which could be a sign that his shoulder is bothering him. Cooper and Hawk have said he's not keeping the right arm slot, which is probably saying the same thing, so yeah, in a guy's walkaway year, he might be pitching through physical problems.

 

I still wouldn't sign him next year.