I'll never understand those kind of rules. What does having long hair or tattoos or piercings have anything to do with how you perform your job or task? Whatever.

 

The one I really don't get is no facial hair except for mustaches. If I could actually grow any sort of facial hair and had a job that had those rules, I would just grow out a long handle bar mustache.

I'll never understand those kind of rules. What does having long hair or tattoos or piercings have anything to do with how you perform your job or task? Whatever.

 

 

It has nothing to do with how you perform your job, and everything to do with public perception. Look at it like this, if an 80 year old lady walks into your business for whatever reason, do you think she will approach the clean-cut, well dressed person, or the guy who looks like he fell out of Jim Rose's sideshow?

 

If you are dropping your kids off for a camp of some sort, do you want your kids going to camp with a clean cut person, or a guy who looks like he will someday be a part of the Hells Angels? No matter what happens in the world, long hairs will always be associated with drugs, sex, and rock and roll. People have always been shocked when they find out I never did drugs. I didn't even drink for years, and have never "slept around", and have a much more tame existence than most everybody I know, but my looks turned me into a "bad guy". It's all perception, and first impressions rule over all.

It has nothing to do with how you perform your job, and everything to do with public perception. Look at it like this, if an 80 year old lady walks into your business for whatever reason, do you think she will approach the clean-cut, well dressed person, or the guy who looks like he fell out of Jim Rose's sideshow?

 

If you are dropping your kids off for a camp of some sort, do you want your kids going to camp with a clean cut person, or a guy who looks like he will someday be a part of the Hells Angels? No matter what happens in the world, long hairs will always be associated with drugs, sex, and rock and roll. People have always been shocked when they find out I never did drugs. I didn't even drink for years, and have never "slept around", and have a much more tame existence than most everybody I know, but my looks turned me into a "bad guy". It's all perception, and first impressions rule over all.

 

If you knew this was a Boy Scout Camp and the kids in question were all Eagle Scouts, would you change your opinion?

If you knew this was a Boy Scout Camp and the kids in question were all Eagle Scouts, would you change your opinion?

 

 

I think .. regardless ... he's right. It's all about the bucks. Or, the perception of the businessman as to what will translate in to bucks and what will translate into lost bucks.

It has nothing to do with how you perform your job, and everything to do with public perception. Look at it like this, if an 80 year old lady walks into your business for whatever reason, do you think she will approach the clean-cut, well dressed person, or the guy who looks like he fell out of Jim Rose's sideshow?

 

If you are dropping your kids off for a camp of some sort, do you want your kids going to camp with a clean cut person, or a guy who looks like he will someday be a part of the Hells Angels? No matter what happens in the world, long hairs will always be associated with drugs, sex, and rock and roll. People have always been shocked when they find out I never did drugs. I didn't even drink for years, and have never "slept around", and have a much more tame existence than most everybody I know, but my looks turned me into a "bad guy". It's all perception, and first impressions rule over all.

 

Please.

 

I've had long hair since I was a junior in high school. Right now it goes just past the middle of my back. It's always clean and kept back in a neat ponytail. Looking at me from the front you wouldn't even know I have long hair.

 

No job I've ever worked at (retail or professional) has ever had a problem with it...

You all would have loved my high school.

 

Having gone through the "Chicago Catholic Expierence," I can speak to this first-hand. My high school, an all-boy, Catholic school (very common in the Chicago, Catholic community), did not allow hair to reach eye brow length in the front, collar length in the back, and sideburns had to be mid-ear. There was also a policy on no facial hair; both of these rules were stricly enforced with detentions.

 

Now, will God love me any less if my sideburns go down to my chin? Will I be a less productive citizen if I had a beard? Will I recieve poorer grades with hair down to my collar? The obvious answer to all of these questions is no; then why have them?

 

This school believed if their students all dressed, looked, and acted the same way, they would promote the positive messages of the instiution and start a cycle of, "you'll thank us when you're older." As a pimply-faced freshman, I knew no better than to abide by nearly every rule in the book. My face was shaved, my hair was close and my shirt was always tucked in. However, as I got older, my hair was highlited, my sideburns were long, and I refused to buy into their image.

 

Kids like myself, the type that refused the "clone" image and rejected absurd rules, became very, very dangerous. We would "corrupt" the youth and show how baseless and shallow these types of rules really are. Now, would I ever win that fight? Probably not, resistance is futile...however, I finished in the top 3% of my class, I was involved in varsity football, and found myself amongst the most "popular" and "well recieved" student and family circles. So, do you NEED to be well-groomed to succeed in the real-world and become a productive citizen? Hell no. Does it promote proper grooming, self-image, and acceptance values? Absolutely.

 

Judge a person on his character, not his appearence.

, at some point, I decided to grow up and pack away my black concert tee-shirts and chains.>

 

Tex, if your buddy wants his campers to look like little, productive clones...let him. He'll soon discover to discard that practice and hire kids based on their productivity and personal merit.

Please.

 

I've had long hair since I was a junior in high school. Right now it goes just past the middle of my back. It's always clean and kept back in a neat ponytail. Looking at me from the front you wouldn't even know I have long hair.

 

No job I've ever worked at (retail or professional) has ever had a problem with it...

But you don't understand his point about the old lady?

You all would have loved my high school.

 

Having gone through the "Chicago Catholic Expierence," I can speak to this first-hand.  My high school, an all-boy, Catholic school (very common in the Chicago, Catholic community), did not allow hair to reach eye brow length in the front, collar length in the back, and sideburns had to be mid-ear.  There was also a policy on no facial hair; both of these rules were stricly enforced with detentions.

 

Now, will God love me any less if my sideburns go down to my chin?  Will I be a less productive citizen if I had a beard?  Will I recieve poorer grades with hair down to my collar?  The obvious answer to all of these questions is no; then why have them?

 

This school believed if their students all dressed, looked, and acted the same way, they would promote the positive messages of the instiution and start a cycle of, "you'll thank us when you're older."  As a pimply-faced freshman, I knew no better than to abide by nearly every rule in the book.  My face was shaved, my hair was close and my shirt was always tucked in.  However, as I got older, my hair was highlited, my sideburns were long, and I refused to buy into their image.

 

 

Yep, I went through the same s*** at Gordon Tech. Sometimes I'd forget to shave, and I'd have to go down to the dean's office and purchase a razor for $1 and shaving cream for 50 cents.

Please.

 

I've had long hair since I was a junior in high school. Right now it goes just past the middle of my back. It's always clean and kept back in a neat ponytail. Looking at me from the front you wouldn't even know I have long hair.

 

No job I've ever worked at (retail or professional) has ever had a problem with it...

 

Please.

 

Do you want me to post pictures of myself? As I said, I just cut my hair, I am 34. It started growing when I was a Sophomore in High School. Mine was NEVER in a pony tail. I have always worn more jewelry than any female I know, I used to wear make-up (mainly eyeliner) and my clothes have always been "out there". I have been refused work, I have been asked if I (excuse me) "suck or swallow", I have had a gun pulled on me by a redneck, I have had guys yell things to me from other cars, until I looked at them and they saw I was a guy.

 

My point? We all will have a different experience. If you had long hair, and wore it nicely tied back, and dressed normal, chances are you have had better experiences than I, for the obvious reason I will post in a picture if you would like. My job I had while I had the purple hair didn't care if it was purple, but it had to be in a hat. I am a Land Surveyor, my job takes me to peoples houses. It made sense to look presentable.

 

As for if this was a Boy Scout camp, I'm not sure how to answer that one. Is it? I would have to say then you have a different argument on your hands to some degree.

 

But if you chose to look in a way that is NOT normal to what society wants, you have to expect some form of discrimination. If a person can't get a job for looking Jewish, or of some race, why would it be any different for the person that chooses to have 50 piecings, long hair, and tats? I know many, many, many, many people like this (basically EVERYBODY I hang with and talk to), and we all have the same experiences, and we have the same understandings. It's the path we chose.

Sounds like a boy scout camp to me. If this is the situation that I think it is, sounds like a guy who believes in the "Character Counts" as long as actions don't matter school of life.

 

It doesn't matter what you do, but how you look. I've seen it in action when I was in Scouts.

Yep, I went through the same s*** at Gordon Tech.  Sometimes I'd forget to shave, and I'd have to go down to the dean's office and purchase a razor for $1 and shaving cream for 50 cents.

 

Same confrence. Different School.

 

My school is about 12 miles northwest of GT.

 

By the way, how do you feel about GT going co-ed? Its a pisser ain't it?

Its a pisser ain't it?

 

I here the new students won't stand for it

I here the new students won't stand for it 

 

 

Hoy-O!!!!!!!

 

 

Great post. One of the best I've seen.

By the way, how do you feel about GT going co-ed?  Its a pisser ain't it?

 

When Marist did that a few years back, Brian and I got into some good arguments. He still cannot understand why it pissed me off as much as it did.

 

Hoy-O!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Great post.  One of the best I've seen. 

 

I was worried no one would catch it.

 

BTW, the old students won't take it sitting down . . .

 

Thanks

I here the new students won't stand for it 

Terrible. Just terrible. One of the worst posts I've ever read. :headshake

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same confrence. Different School.

 

My school is about 12 miles northwest of GT.

 

By the way, how do you feel about GT going co-ed?  Its a pisser ain't it?

 

No s***, Notre Dame eh?

 

I spent my first 18 years off of Addison and Central, then I lived off of Oakton and Harlem for 5 years...within half a mile of Notre Dame. I used to play baseball there with my buddies when nobody was using the field. The baseball coach came out and played with us once...he had some mean sideburns.

No s***, Notre Dame eh? 

 

I spent my first 18 years off of Addison and Central, then I lived off of Oakton and Harlem for 5 years...within half a mile of Notre Dame.  I used to play baseball there with my buddies when nobody was using the field.  The baseball coach came out and played with us once...he had some mean sideburns.

 

Hammerhead takes this one the distance.

 

Yup, ND. You nailed it.

 

Although I live on the Northwest side of Chicago, the ND neighborhood is my stompin' grounds. The ND grounds are still fantastic and they have done a really great job of keeping everything beautiful.

 

My girlfriend lives a stone's throw away, so I'm around ND constantly.

 

The Mighty Dons.

 

Our former head baseball coach was a GT grad.

BTW, GT going co-ed...

 

It sucks. You can let loose and be a complete goofball around a bunch of dudes (which I was), but if women had been around, I probably would have held back 100% of the time.

Please.

 

Do you want me to post pictures of myself? As I said, I just cut my hair, I am 34. It started growing when I was a Sophomore in High School. Mine was NEVER in a pony tail. I have always worn more jewelry than any female I know, I used to wear make-up (mainly eyeliner) and my clothes have always been "out there". I have been refused work, I have been asked if I (excuse me) "suck or swallow", I have had a gun pulled on me by a redneck, I have had guys yell things to me from other cars, until I looked at them and they saw I was a guy.

 

My point? We all will have a different experience. If you had long hair, and wore it nicely tied back, and dressed normal, chances are you have had better experiences than I, for the obvious reason I will post in a picture if you would like. My job I had while I had the purple hair didn't care if it was purple, but it had to be in a hat. I am a Land Surveyor, my job takes me to peoples houses. It made sense to look presentable.

 

As for if this was a Boy Scout camp, I'm not sure how to answer that one. Is it? I would have to say then you have a different argument on your hands to some degree.

 

But if you chose to look in a way that is NOT normal to what society wants, you have to expect some form of discrimination. If a person can't get a job for looking Jewish, or of some race, why would it be any different for the person that chooses to have 50 piecings, long hair, and tats? I know many, many, many, many people like this (basically EVERYBODY I hang with and talk to), and we all have the same experiences, and we have the same understandings. It's the path we chose.

 

Dressing in "out there" clothes, wearing earings and makeup and dying your hair is completely different. The original post was about hair length only.

 

My point is that it's possible to look professional and business-like even with long hair.

 

To discriminate against somebody solely because their hair goes past their collar is wrong.

Dressing in "out there" clothes, wearing earings and makeup and dying your hair is completely different. The original post was about hair length only.

 

My point is that it's possible to look professional and business-like even with long hair. 

 

To discriminate against somebody solely because their hair goes past their collar is wrong.

 

And it doesn't go past the color when dry. It's so curly as soon as it dries it's well above the collar.

And it doesn't go past the color when dry. It's so curly as soon as it dries it's well above the collar.

 

But you said he has "long hair", and that hasn't been considered "long hair" since The Beatles first came on the scene.

 

Dressing in "out there" clothes, wearing earings and makeup and dying your hair is completely different. The original post was about hair length only.

 

My point is that it's possible to look professional and business-like even with long hair. 

 

To discriminate against somebody solely because their hair goes past their collar is wrong.

 

 

My stance is that your looks are your looks. To have hair to the middle of your back, LONG, is NOT acceptable to some people. I only got into the area of my looks there due to the "Please" in that post. I took it as to your saying I didn't know what I was talking about. Trust me though, when in a work place, I have always been presentable. My hair is always clean. I freak out if I don't shower every day. But that is beside the point, some people cannot accept long hair on guys, and it is fully accpetable to hire a person based on that. Looks that CAN be changed, I believe, are fully open to discrimination. If you go to work someplace that has a uniform, you agree to go along with the "uniform". Some companies don't have an actual uniform, other than a suit, and if the owner of the company doesn't want his uniform (suit) to be attached to long hair, then you can cut it if you wish to work for the company. Hair can be changed.

 

But collar length hair being called "long" is a little silly.

But you said he has "long hair", and that hasn't been considered "long hair" since The Beatles first came on the scene.

My stance is that your looks are your looks. To have hair to the middle of your back, LONG, is NOT acceptable to some people. I only got into the area of my looks there due to the "Please" in that post. I took it as to your saying I didn't know what I was talking about. Trust me though, when in a work place, I have always been presentable. My hair is always clean. I freak out if I don't shower every day. But that is beside the point, some people cannot accept long hair on guys, and it is fully accpetable to hire a person based on that. Looks that CAN be changed, I believe, are fully open to discrimination. If you go to work someplace that has a uniform, you agree to go along with the "uniform". Some companies don't have an actual uniform, other than a suit, and if the owner of the company doesn't want his uniform (suit) to be attached to long hair, then you can cut it if you wish to work for the company. Hair can be changed.

 

But collar length hair being called "long" is a little silly.

 

Your original post just seemed like you were saying that everyone with long hair should expect to be treated the way you were. I never experienced any of that. Maybe I'm just the exception?

 

Yes, hair can be changed but in this day and age, what can't? That would be like not being hired because they don't like your weight, or your eye color, or the shape of your nose.

 

If someone is just as qualified for and capable of doing the job as the next person and their hair is not a distraction or a possible injury/health risk, then there's no reason for that person to not be hired based on the length of their hair IMHO.

But if they are equally qualified and the only difference is the length of their hair, then having long hair will actually work against you.

Your original post just seemed like you were saying that everyone with long hair should expect to be treated the way you were. I never experienced any of that. Maybe I'm just the exception?

 

Yes, hair can be changed but in this day and age, what can't? That would be like not being hired because they don't like your weight, or your eye color, or the shape of your nose.

 

If someone is just as qualified for and capable of doing the job as the next person and their hair is not a distraction or a possible injury/health risk, then there's no reason for that person to not be hired based on the length of their hair IMHO.

Here's the problem though. Tex isn't talking about a company that makes widgets. He's talking about a boy scout camp that is - for the most part - led by boys. Now the directors want a degree of uniformity from staff members, which is a good thing. They usually have to wear a uniform, properly at all times - if this is like any other scout camp I went to as a kid. However, that oughta be where it stops. Scouting is an organization that is there to let kids grow - hair included - into responsible adults. People that penalize kids who fit the roles that the camp is trying to promote because of a piercing or long hair don't get the fundamental basis of this organization. Mostly because they fail to remember its about the kids and not them.