it can still make all the difference.  for example, you think we would have lost last night if we had Billy Wagner firing 99 MPH fastballs to Jorge Cantu instead of Shingo's high 80's fastballs?  what about earlier this season vs. Cleveland, when Shingo gave up 3 9th inning homeruns?  it would have been infinitely more difficult for Ronnie Belliard to turn on a Wagner fastball.

 

I think you missed that was sarcasm. Anything is green text is meant to be sarcastic.

I'm getting really tired of Dye too. And unlike guys like Rowand and Konerko, I just have a feeling that things are really not gonna get much better for JD. I would really like to see Anderson up here, but I do agree it could hurt the chemistry. So I am in favor of keeping it as is until Frank comes back and then almost platooning JD and Carl. As far as Wagner goes, if things stay as they are, I think we should go after him. I'm getting ahead of myself but I can just picture now our bullpen trying to get out of jams in teh playoffs. I think if our play still warrants it then, we should go for it. That IS what its all about. Also, I am really getting ahead of things now, but I would rather have el duque in the pen for the playoffs. He just seems like a perfect guy to have in there. He's been through everything before and he already has to grind through every start so it's not that big a change.

I think you missed that was sarcasm.  Anything is green text is meant to be sarcastic.

sorry I'm still new here. put that one on me.

ehem, actually its .276, and they are 5th.

 

They're hitting .321 as a team at home. Last I checked, they were hitting .300 overall. Looks like they've had a team-wide slump over the past week or so.

 

But that's besides the point. You thought that hitting parks don't help batting averages. That's pretty sad, buddy.

sorry I'm still new here.  put that one on me.

 

Not a problem

They're hitting .321 as a team at home.  Last I checked, they were hitting .300 overall.  Looks like they've had a team-wide slump over the past week or so.

 

But that's besides the point.  You thought that hitting parks don't help batting averages.  That's pretty sad, buddy.

Where did I say hitting parks dont help batting avg's???

 

Dont be salty cause you were wrong, its ok. Several teams who play in "pitching parks" have high batting avg's as well. Their power numbers arent that great, but the BA stays the same. And .276 is ALOT different from .300, if you would like me to post the link with the current rankings of stats by team, I could do that for you.

Where did I say hitting parks dont help batting avg's???

 

Dont be salty cause you were wrong, its ok.  Several teams who play in "pitching parks" have high batting avg's as well.  Their power numbers arent that great, but the BA stays the same.  And .276 is ALOT different from .300, if you would like me to post the link with the current rankings of stats by team, I could do that for you.

 

Actually, you're right. DBAHO said that KC was a pitchers park...it was my understanding that it's a hitters park. Hmmm.

Dotel was the best deadline closer last season, right? Am I missing someone?

 

Who did Oakland give up? Teahan? Who else...?

 

I know Teahan is a good prospect, but he certainly isn't a top prospect. They didn't have to give up their Brian Anderson (Nick Swisher) for Dotel, yet we should give up Anderson to get Wagner?

 

And I realize that Wagner is better than Dotel, don't get me wrong. But I don't see the need in giving up Anderson/Sweeney/McCarthy...

Dotel was the best deadline closer last season, right?  Am I missing someone?

 

Who did Oakland give up?  Teahan?  Who else...?

 

I know Teahan is a good prospect, but he certainly isn't a top prospect.  They didn't have to give up their Brian Anderson (Nick Swisher) for Dotel, yet we should give up Anderson to get Wagner?

 

And I realize that Wagner is better than Dotel, don't get me wrong.  But  I don't see the need in giving up Anderson/Sweeney/McCarthy...

completely agree, give them Spidale

Dotel was the best deadline closer last season, right?  Am I missing someone?

 

Who did Oakland give up?  Teahan?  Who else...?

 

I know Teahan is a good prospect, but he certainly isn't a top prospect.  They didn't have to give up their Brian Anderson (Nick Swisher) for Dotel, yet we should give up Anderson to get Wagner?

 

And I realize that Wagner is better than Dotel, don't get me wrong.  But  I don't see the need in giving up Anderson/Sweeney/McCarthy...

 

My main point of the post was to get people thinking, would it be worth giving up a top prospect for a top notch closer? [probably the most pressing need for the sox by the deadline]

 

If the Sox could get a guy like Wagner for less, great.

My main point of the post was to get people thinking, would it be worth giving up a top prospect for a top notch closer? [probably the most pressing need for the sox by the deadline]

 

If the Sox could get a guy like Wagner for less, great.

 

I wouldn't think that we would have to give up Anderson, but with teams like the Cubs (among others) also bidding for a late inning pitcher, it might be that way.

 

I was thinking three above average prospects, but not top tier, i.e. Anderson.

Dotel was the best deadline closer last season, right?  Am I missing someone?

 

Who did Oakland give up?  Teahan?  Who else...?

 

I know Teahan is a good prospect, but he certainly isn't a top prospect.  They didn't have to give up their Brian Anderson (Nick Swisher) for Dotel, yet we should give up Anderson to get Wagner?

 

And I realize that Wagner is better than Dotel, don't get me wrong.  But  I don't see the need in giving up Anderson/Sweeney/McCarthy...

 

 

Completely different in my mind.

 

Dotel was pitching awful in Houston, and was suffering from LaTroy Hawkins syndrome - that is, having a ton of success as a setup man, but not being able to close. He is also not near the pitcher Wagner is, all things considered.

 

 

In my mind, there is no doubt in my mind you make this trade. Every year there are Reggie Sanders/Jose Cruz types available that are decent stopgaps for prospects if needed, and the Sox have Sweeney and Young that could move up and help by 07, when 1 of them would probably be needed. Also consider that guys like Spidale and Owens could start ripping s*** up and become decent players as well. And of course, if Wagner did in fact put the Sox over the top and they won the series, the payroll goes up, so there is not much stopping them from getting a top FA if needed.

 

You then consider that a rotation of Buehrle-Garcia-Duque-Garland in the playoffs is very solid, and a pen of Wagner-Hermanson-Marte-Shingo-Politte-Contreras along with Cotts and Vizcaino if you need them. The opponent will be lucky to score a 3 runs a game, and in a postseason where pitching will not be the strongest and hitting will likely be abundant, you should try and make your pitching staff as strong as you can in order to shut down all the hitting you will face.

 

IMO, if the Sox played similarly to how they are now, and they added Wagner at the trading deadline, they are looking sickly good. I'd almost want to say that they could be a World Series favorite.

 

Another thing to take into consideration is that Dye probably will not start once Frank gets healthy. I'd imagine Everett-Pods-Rowand will be about the everyday OF when Frank gets back.

I;m saying no to this trade. Keep Brian for insurance/future and stick with Hermy, STILL no runs given up.

Dotel was pitching awful in Houston.

 

You are thinking about a different dotel in houston?

You are thinking about a different dotel in houston?

 

Apparently

 

I seem to remember him being worse

It's still amazes me that people get so attached to certain prospects that they have almost never seen play. I remember people this way with Rauch, Borchard, Malone, etc., etc...Too bad we held on to them too long...

 

Wagner completes our pitching staff, and makes it quite possibly the best in the AL.

Edited May 11, 200520 yr by sircaffey

It's still amazes me that people get so attached to certain prospects that they have almost never seen play.  I remember people this way with Rauch, Borchard, Malone, etc., etc...Too bad we held on to them too long...

 

Wagner completes our pitching staff, and makes it quite possibly the best in the AL.

 

With the way prospects have worked out for the Sox, I'd almost rather trade them at peak value for a shot at the World Series than hang onto them to save a little money in the future.

With the way prospects have worked out for the Sox, I'd almost rather trade them at peak value for a shot at the World Series than hang onto them to save a little money in the future.

 

Yep, I'm w/ you...Wagner is definitely worth the shot.

Billy Wagner is no question mark. He's a top 5 closer and if we get him and Hermanson is our 8th inning guy with Marte/Shingo/Viz/Politte taking the 7th and part of the 8th-we'll be playing 6 inning games and we'll be a legit World Series threat.

Billy Wagner is no question mark. He's a top 5 closer and if we get him and Hermanson is our 8th inning guy with Marte/Shingo/Viz/Politte taking the 7th and part of the 8th-we'll be playing 6 inning games and we'll be a legit World Series threat.

 

No doubt...It also takes a lot of pressure of Ozzie in handling the bullpen. Now, w/ Wagner, he can almost not go wrong with how he handles the 7th and 8th innings. Having to not worry about who's pitching the 9th and not be worried that he's going to struggle, would be a tremendous luxury for Ozzie.

Also, reminds me of the Angels when they won the World Series. Their pen was scary good and really carried their somewhat average rotation.

Also, reminds me of the Angels when they won the World Series.  Their pen was scary good and really carried their somewhat average rotation.

 

Washburn pitched very well in the post-season, but you're right, they were largely average.

You might notice that many lineups (or better ones) in the AL are very loaded with lefty bats (Angels, Twins, Indians, Oakland). Plus, Wagner is so good against righties that you can use him against the heart of a right-handed order without blinking. I am stunned that there is a lot of debate about giving up prospects for a guiy like this. Hell, extend his deal if you want to also.

You might notice that many lineups (or better ones) in the AL are very loaded with lefty bats (Angels, Twins, Indians, Oakland). Plus, Wagner is so good against righties that you can use him against the heart of a right-handed order without blinking. I am stunned that there is a lot of debate about giving up prospects for a guiy like this. Hell, extend his deal if you want to also.

 

We are not gonna pay a closer more than 3/5 of our rotation. I don't care how good he is i don't want to pay a closer 8+ million.

Washburn pitched very well in the post-season, but you're right, they were largely average.

I still say that rotation was damn good in '02.