9th inning Ozzie

[southsider2k5]

If I was managing this team we'd be 33-0.

 

Because everytime Shingo gave up a homerun in the 9th this year I wouldn't have put him in the game.  And, every time one of our runners gets thrown out on the bases I wouldn't have had them steal.

 

  :banghead   

 

LMFAO!!!

[ISF]

And yet despite the fact our starting pitching has been great so far (have a look at every other single team in the majors), some people still want B-Mac up.

 

He doesn't need to step right into the rotation. I think it really helps young

pitchers to start in the bullpen at the mlb level. The manager should be able

to put him in situations that give him the best chance for success. He gets some innings under his belt learning situational pitching in the big leagues and has a chance to gain confidence against mlb hitters.

 

As good as our rotation has been, Vizcaino has stunk all year, and Takatsu

looks shaky.

[southsider2k5]

He doesn't need to step right into the rotation. I think it really helps young

pitchers to start in the bullpen at the mlb level. The manager should be able

to put him in situations that give him the best chance for success. He gets some innings under his belt learning situational pitching in the big leagues and has a chance to gain confidence against mlb hitters.

 

As good as our rotation has been, Vizcaino has stunk all year, and Takatsu

looks shaky.

 

So we take a rookie who has pitched 5 games at AAA, none at the major league level, and has never been a reliever at any stage of his career, and put him in the Sox bullpen, and expect things to be fixed? That's rich.

[The Critic]

I love this place after a couple of losses....ugh....

[ISF]

So we take a rookie who has pitched 5 games at AAA, none at the major league level, and has never been a reliever at any stage of his career, and put him in the Sox bullpen, and expect things to be fixed?  That's rich.

 

Many successful rookies don't pitch a single game at AAA. Dontrelle Willis came straight from A ball.

 

I fail to see where not having been in the bullpen before has any relevance. Do you feel he doesn't have the mental toughness to pitch in the later innings? I thought his attitude was one of his strengths?

 

I don't expect BMac to be a savior. I expect him to pitch long relief more effectively than Luisa, and I don't think that is setting the bar very high.

[AddisonStSox]

So, we've gone from the invincible to panic mode after a two game slide with the D'Rays.

 

Surely you guys are joking about the thought of bringing McCarthy up. Right? C'mon. You can't possibly be serious. :headshake

 

 

"9th Inning Ozzie"

 

...sounds like a good name for a band to me.

[ISF]

So, we've gone from the invincible to panic mode after a two game slide with the D'Rays.

 

Surely you guys are joking about the thought of bringing McCarthy up.  Right?  C'mon.  You can't possibly be serious. :headshake

"9th Inning Ozzie"

 

...sounds like a good name for a band to me.

 

Never felt invincible, and I'm not in panic mode either. Losing a couple on the road happens. There's nothing wrong with looking at how we can tweak the roster without disrupting team chemistry.

 

Joking about bringing McCarthy up? So you don't think BMac can be successful at the mlb level?

 

Then let's trade him and get somebody that can while his trade stock is still high.

:banghead

 

There are varying opinions about the best way to develop pitching prospects.

Mine happens to be that they should start in the bullpen where the manager can control what situations they face. Give them a chance to get more comfortable with the mlb atmosphere before moving them into the rotation.

 

Is it the only way? No. But I have no doubts BMac could contribute as an improvement over Luisa in this situation, and the bottom line is giving your team the best chance to win. I think it's a perfect situation for BMac.

[mreye]

I love this place after a couple of losses....ugh....

I was just thinking the same thing. It's sometimes fun, sometimes frustrating, but always entertaining.

[Guest JimH]

ISF ... here is the thing to remember, McCarthy is depth when/if one of the five starters needs to miss a start.

 

That is his role for 2005. It's not long relief. If they brought him up now and put him in the bullpen, they'd have to stretch him out again if he needed to start. Long relief is an inconsistent role (see: Neal Cotts).

 

Why change his development track now? He has rocketed thru the system by pitching every fifth day. Now we should stick him into long relief? Doesn't make sense, won't happen.

 

I understand what you're saying, and using Buehrle as an example. But McCarthy has more experience as a starter than Buehrle did when he came up. It made more sense to get Buehrle's feet wet slowly.

[AddisonStSox]

Never felt invincible, and I'm not in panic mode either. Losing a couple on the road happens. There's nothing wrong with looking at how we can tweak the roster without disrupting team chemistry.

 

Joking about bringing McCarthy up? So you don't think BMac can be successful at the mlb level?

 

Then let's trade him and get somebody that can while his trade stock is still high.

:banghead

 

There are varying opinions about the best way to develop pitching prospects.

Mine happens to be that they should start in the bullpen where the manager can control what situations they face. Give them a chance to get more comfortable with the mlb atmosphere before moving them into the rotation.

 

Is it the only way? No. But I have no doubts BMac could contribute as an improvement over Luisa in this situation, and the bottom line is giving your team the best chance to win. I think it's a perfect situation for BMac.

 

 

I'll even go as far as calling that process "the norm." Yes, many, many starting pitchers are brought to the major leauge level as a long reliever or pen guy, but that is clearly not the case with McCarthy. As Jim has stated, McCarthy has shot through the system as a starter for a reason. The guy was bred to be a starter, pitching every fifth day. He's a starter, plain and simple, and should be used if and only if one of our starters go down for a prolonged period of time.

 

If that's not reason enough, WHY START THE ARBITRATION CLOCK? We have a very, very good thing in McCarthy. He is a major league staple material. I'm sure he's up on Kenny's board as being a KEY piece in the 3-4 year plan.

 

In this instance, bringing him up to pitch in the pen is the wrong move, hands down.

[aboz56]

McCarthy was at A ball a year ago at this time.

 

The time to bring him up is not right now.

 

As long as we are getting quality starts on a regular basis he will stay right where he is.

 

In fact, he'll still be blocked next season with all 5 of our starting pitchers returning.

 

The most likely scenario next year is making Count the closer and bringing up B-Mac for the 5th starters role with Marte and Hermy setting up for Count. Shingo will be gone.

[Guest JimH]

McCarthy was at A ball a year ago at this time.

 

The time to bring him up is not right now.

 

As long as we are getting quality starts on a regular basis he will stay right where he is.

 

In fact, he'll still be blocked next season with all 5 of our starting pitchers returning.

 

The most likely scenario next year is making Count the closer and bringing up B-Mac for the 5th starters role with Marte and Hermy setting up for Count.  Shingo will be gone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, good points.

 

I will add this, if Contreras doesn't show some marked improvement in consistency, he too will be gone. If they're stuck with him, i.e. he's bad but no one wants him in a trade, Sox brass will suck it up and he will be long relief. I know they talked about him in a closer role and yes, he has the stuff. But his performance last nite (5 walks) show why it's not the best idea.

 

Agree that Shingo will not be brought back. I would suggest that'll be the case even if he's more or less lights out from here on in. IMO Guillen has lost some faith in him while at the same time giving him every chance to work thru whatever his problems are.

 

I also think the Sox will bring in a bullpen arm by the end of July.

[thomsonmi]

I love this place after a couple of losses....ugh....

 

You and me both...

[YASNY]

You and me both...

 

Personally, I love it much more after 8 wins.

[AddisonStSox]

McCarthy was at A ball a year ago at this time.

 

The time to bring him up is not right now.

 

As long as we are getting quality starts on a regular basis he will stay right where he is.

 

In fact, he'll still be blocked next season with all 5 of our starting pitchers returning.

 

The most likely scenario next year is making Count the closer and bringing up B-Mac for the 5th starters role with Marte and Hermy setting up for Count.  Shingo will be gone.

 

Everyone book this. Book this right now. I think this is exactly what's going to happen.

 

Excellent post Bozley.

[aboz56]

I will add this, if Contreras doesn't show some marked improvement in consistency, he too will be gone.  If they're stuck with him, i.e. he's bad but no one wants him in a trade, Sox brass will suck it up and he will be long relief.  I know they talked about him in a closer role and yes, he has the stuff.  But his performance last nite (5 walks) show why it's not the best idea.

What bothers me with Contreras is that if he'd just throw strikes consistently he could be flat out dominant.

 

He seems to try to be too perfect instead of just trusting his fastball and forkball. He's got a bad habit of not getting first pitch strike and then falling behind from that point. Coop needs to get him back to working faster and throwing that first pitch fastball right in there. He's got a good defense behind him, let them make some plays. He is beating himself with the walks.

 

I agree Jim, if he keeps walking guys, he will be long relief next year (or gone) because we sure as hell don't want a closer walking guys like Shingo has this year and Koch did the two years before.

[Guest JimH]

He is beating himself with the walks. 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

KW hates that too, I saw him at a spring training game and he got all fidgety and grouchy when one of the Sox pitchers walked a guy.

 

We happened to be sitting right behind him, it was at the Padres game in Peoria on March 9 I think.

 

Anyways, I lean over and say, "Those walks are tough to take for a GM, I suppose?", to which he says, "I hate it ... I hate it with a passion".

[ISF]

Well, you're welcome to your opinion on the issue, but that's what it is; an opinion. As is mine.

 

Saying that it is wrong to bring up BMac "hands down" is ludicrous.

 

As mentioned earlier, there are severals paths for pitchers to use to develop. Bringing up BMac now to contribute to the team in a role where he could be effective would not be "wrong". It would be a development path.

 

As for stretching him out again, not likely. Buerhle never had to be stretched out again. More importantly, BMac would already have mlb innings under his belt if needed to move to the rotation to replace an injured/traded player.

 

Cotts is not a comparable pitcher, Cotts' problem wasn't that he wasn't stretched out, Cotts' problem is he's a 2-pitch pitcher with mediocre command ill-fit for a rotation spot.

[ISF]

The arbitration argument doesn't fly. You make the moves that give your team the best chance to win now and in the future. We have a golden opportunity given our start this year.

 

If a move to improve the team was rejected because we wanted to save a couple bucks 3 years from now, it would be wrong.

[Guest JimH]

Well, you're welcome to your opinion on the issue, but that's what it is; an opinion. As is mine.

 

Saying that it is wrong to bring up BMac "hands down" is ludicrous.

 

As mentioned earlier, there are severals paths for pitchers to use to develop. Bringing up BMac now to contribute to the team in a role where he could be effective would not be "wrong". It would be a development path.

 

As for stretching him out again, not likely. Buerhle never had to be stretched out again. More importantly, BMac would already have mlb innings under his belt if needed to move to the rotation to replace an injured/traded player.

 

Cotts is not a comparable pitcher, Cotts' problem wasn't that he wasn't stretched out, Cotts' problem is he's a 2-pitch pitcher with mediocre command ill-fit for a rotation spot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All fair points ...

 

But I'm not sure why this is being discussed, since KW and Guillen have both said what McCarthy's role is for 2005 (step in for a starter if needed).

 

I realize this is a message board, but

[Guest JimH]

You make the moves that give your team the best chance to win now and in the future.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

They are, that's why McCarthy is getting valuable experience as a starter in Charlotte at age 21.

[ISF]

All fair points ...

 

But I'm not sure why this is being discussed, since KW and Guillen have both said what McCarthy's role is for 2005 (step in for a starter if needed).

 

I realize this is a message board, but 

 

Roles change.

 

Is it likely they will bring BMac up in such a role? No. But it is a valid suggestion that merits comparison to other possibilities for strengthening the bullpen.

I would even go one step farther and say it is more likely they would use him in such a role than trade for a Billy Wagner.

 

Vizcaino and Takatsu are struggling, but we have Hermanson and Marte available for the closer role. What we need is a setup/long relief man to replace Vizcaino.

Takatsu is likely to pitch setup for the rest of the year.

[ISF]

They are, that's why McCarthy is getting valuable experience as a starter in Charlotte at age 21.

 

I don't mean to imply that it is bad that he is at AAA doing just that.

 

However, I would neither agree that starting at AAA is somehow more valuable than contributing to the big club in the bullpen. There is no greater preparation for mlb hitters than pitching to mlb hitters.

 

I merely point out that refusing to improve the ballclub because we might have to spend money 3 years later as opposed to 4 would be very wrong.

[AddisonStSox]

You don't "buy" the arbitration "arguement" huh?

 

You do understand how arbitration works do you not?

[Guest JimH]

Roles change.

 

Is it likely they will bring BMac up in such a role? No. But it is a valid suggestion that merits comparison to other possibilities for strengthening the bullpen.

I would even go one step farther and say it is more likely they would use him in such a role than trade for a Billy Wagner.

 

Vizcaino and Takatsu are struggling, but we have Hermanson and Marte available for the closer role. What we need is a setup/long relief man to replace Vizcaino.

Takatsu is likely to pitch setup for the rest of the year.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Roles do change, you are correct. I'm saying they won't change for the White Sox prized top pitching prospect, and if I were lucky enough to sit down with Guillen and KW to discuss ... I'm very confident they'd agree with me.

 

As of right now, yeah, they need a different bullpen arm because it appears they are clearly working around Takatsu. Buehrle did not pitch long relief in his first stint, he was more of a situational/set up guy, and they tried the long relief role with another highly regarded prospect - Jon Rauch - and that went south fast.

 

They don't have anyone for the role you suggest (long relief), unless you bring up Adkins. At the moment, that role is probably Walker's, at least for today.

 

All this is why I said in another thread that they'll bring in another bullpen arm, and not a rookie.

 

BTW ... for more on McCarthy's progress, glance at the 5/10 game thread in the Future Sox section. He has more to learn, and is right where he should be, at Charlotte.