This whole debate is pretty silly. Call me when we lose due to Frank hitting 3rd.

When Rowand's numbers are better than whoever is batting 3rd, then it's his spot. Until then, Rowand is only batting about .280 to Frank's .260. And according to you, Rowand is on the low end for OBP at .339 while Frank is at .357. Frank has a SLG of .771 while Rowan is only at .414. So again, why put the .771 in the 5th spot and move the .414 to the 3rd spot?

 

I think you're crazy if you think

 

a) Thomas will keep slugging .771 all year

b ) Rowand will only slug .414 all year

 

Clearly, one is in a hot power streak and one is in a cold one. Besides, Slugging disparities are all about high variance anyway.

 

Rowand had 24 jacks last year and 38 doubles. In my opinion, neither were serious flukes. He'll probably only hit 16-20 hr this year because of a cold power streak, but I think he's on pace for about the same number of doubles. I'd be surprised if he doesn't hit 55+ XBH.

 

I hear what you are saying, but I guess I'm wondering how long Ozzie would keep Thomas at 3 if he goes into any kind of slump and ends up around .250.

Edited June 22, 200520 yr by Hideaway Lights

This whole debate is pretty silly.  Call me when we lose due to Frank hitting 3rd.

 

Very well, post your phone number. Thanks.

I think you're crazy if you think

 

a) Thomas will keep slugging .771 all year

B) Rowand will only slug .414  all year

 

Clearly, one is in a hot power streak and one is in a cold one. Besides, Slugging disparities are all about high variance anyway.

 

Rowand had 24 jacks last year and 38 doubles. In my opinion, neither were serious flukes. He'll probably only hit 16-20 hr this year because of a cold power streak, but I think he's on pace for about the same number of doubles. I'd be surprised if he doesn't hit 55+ XBH.

 

I hear what you are saying, but I guess I'm wondering how long Ozzie would keep Thomas at 3 if he goes into any kind of slump and ends up around .250.

 

And Frank had 8 yrs of much better numbers than Rowand. The numbers right now show that Frank is the better number 3 hitter and until that changes, why move a lighter hitter based on what you think he might do? Like I said before, Ozzie will do what he thinks is best for the team to win and has proven that by his actions already. So this thread is pointless until Frank is slumping and not producing in the 3rd spot. Right now his numbers are better than Rowands, so there is no reason to change it.

I think you're crazy if you think

 

a) Thomas will keep slugging .771 all year

b ) Rowand will only slug .414  all year

 

Clearly, one is in a hot power streak and one is in a cold one. Besides, Slugging disparities are all about high variance anyway.

 

Rowand had 24 jacks last year and 38 doubles. In my opinion, neither were serious flukes. He'll probably only hit 16-20 hr this year because of a cold power streak, but I think he's on pace for about the same number of doubles. I'd be surprised if he doesn't hit 55+ XBH.

 

I hear what you are saying, but I guess I'm wondering how long Ozzie would keep Thomas at 3 if he goes into any kind of slump and ends up around .250.

You DO know that last year was a career year for A-row and Frank was still on pace to hit about the same amount of doubles. Even so, Frank is still a better 3 hole hitter. Whoever taught you the fine points of who should hit where taught you wrong. Im sorry to insult you, but its true.

Very well, post your phone number. Thanks. 

And Frank had 8 yrs of much better numbers than Rowand. The numbers right now show that Frank is the better number 3 hitter and until that changes, why move a lighter hitter based on what you think he might do? Like I said before, Ozzie will do what he thinks is best for the team to win and has proven that by his actions already. So this thread is pointless until Frank is slumping and not producing in the 3rd spot. Right now his numbers are better than Rowands, so there is no reason to change it.

 

How many of those years are after 2000?

 

Thomas 2003 or Rowand 2004 (both of their last complete seasons)...who had the better year?

You DO know that last year was a career year for A-row and Frank was still on pace to hit about the same amount of doubles.  Even so, Frank is still a better 3 hole hitter.  Whoever taught you the fine points of who should hit where taught you wrong.  Im sorry to insult you, but its true.

 

So in other words, you're keeping Frank at 3 even if he hits .250 there. Okay.

Sox record by who bats in the #3 hole

 

Frank -- 8-2 .800

Carl -- 26-12 .685

Aaron -- 15-8 .652

How many of those years are after 2000?

 

Thomas 2003 or Rowand 2004 (both of their last complete seasons)...who had the better year?

FRank and it's not even CLOSE.

Also, last year was a coming out year for Rowand in my opinion....I think he's capable of doing that again. He's certainly showing that a ~.300 average and 38 doubles isn't unrealistic...

How many of those years are after 2000?

 

Thomas 2003 or Rowand 2004 (both of their last complete seasons)...who had the better year?

 

 

 

Are you serious..??

Are you serious..?? 

 

Thomas had 646 plate appearances in 2003.

Rowand had 517 plate appearances in 2004.

 

In other words, adjust Rowand to Thomas's plate appearances and you have 30 HR, 48 2B, 86 RBI and 118 R in 2004. Yeah, I think I might just take that with a .310 average over 2003 Thomas, who had just a .267 average with 35 doubles and 42 home runs, with 105 RBI and just 87 runs. Yes, Thomas walks more. Even so, he only has 29 points in OBP on Rowand. OPS isn't that far off either.

Edited June 22, 200520 yr by Hideaway Lights

Yikes..

 

 

 

I'm out.

some overused pic

 

 

boarding 101 can be found here:

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35839

Yikes..

I'm out.

Me too.

 

This guy is crazy, and not worth arguing with.

Sox record by who bats in the #3 hole

 

Frank -- 8-2  .800

Carl -- 26-12 .685

Aaron -- 15-8 .652

We can pretty anyone in the 3 hole and still be successful.

 

EDIT: After thinking, Timo would be the exception.

Me too.

 

This guy is crazy, and not worth arguing with.

 

 

Yes. Everything I've said in this thread is simply beyond logic.

 

:rolly :rolly :rolly

I guess this is the last time I try to take 20 minutes, actually do the research to back up my f***ing argument, and come back with something that you guys aren't willing to deal with anyway.

Yes. Everything I've said in this thread is simply beyond logic.

 

:rolly  :rolly  :rolly

Yes it is. I'm as big of an Aaron Rowand fan as you're going to find. He desreved the starts he got in the 3 spot, especially against LHP.

 

You have to acknowledge that last season was a career year. His high OBP last year, and his respectable one this year, rides entirely on his batting average, and his inability to get out of the way of inside pitches.

 

Rowand is a .285 hitter. He had a great year last year, but he's not going to do that ever again.

 

You seem infatuated with batting average... Rowand's BABIP is .335, well above league average. He's a speedy guy, so I would expect him to have a BABIP above league average, but he's not going to improve on that. Translated: his batting average isn't going to go up.

 

Frank, meanwhile, has a BABIP of .167, well below average. You can't really control BABIP, it's all trends towards .300 the more AB's you take. Speed is the only real factor, so I'll acknowledge that Frank will be below league average in BABIP, but that average is going to go up probably to somewhere in the Konerko & pierzynski range (.250). Translation: Frank's batting average is going to rise, so will his OBP.

You DO know that last year was a career year for A-row and Frank was still on pace to hit about the same amount of doubles. Even so, Frank is still a better 3 hole hitter. Whoever taught you the fine points of who should hit where taught you wrong. Im sorry to insult you, but its true.

 

Nuff said. Just the look of the type of player Thomas is tells you he is better suited for 3rd. But as has been said, this is an argument that is not even worth having becuase it's untrue.

and you're not a Thomas apologist you say? uh....

 

anyway, I like Frank. I just always understood that your best hitter for average was your number 3 hitter.....Frank is no longer that guy. Sure, he's still getting a lot of walks, but if he hits, say .251 with an OBP of around .330 (the low end of the spectrum IMO, the high end I quoted earlier) is that appropriate for a number 3 hitter?

 

btw, Rowand is a career .288 hitter, not .270.

 

AH the old manipulation of statistics... Don't use Franks career statistics, but do use Aarons. Why is that? Because they don't fit with your arguement otherwise?

 

Frank has a larger sample size and has much less varience on a year to year basis than Aaron does. Frank is much more likely to approach his career OBP than Aaron is, just looking at career numbers. You definately can't look at 35 ABs for Frank and a careers worth for Aaron to trend out what they will do for the rest of this season. More than likely Franks numbers will trend upward as he has been out of the game for year, and has historically shown that as he gets comfortable he gets on base and hits HRs.

I cant believe this debate has kept going. The 3-hole is tailor made for big Frank, I cant even believe we are arguing this. If you want a pretty good spot for A-row, the 2-hole would be pretty decent, but 5 and 6 look good as well. Honestly, this debate is a case of someone not knowing the finer points of the game, pure and simple. BA isnt even a decent stat.

There is one HUGE factor in this debate that no one has bothered to mention. Aaron Rowand is the type of player that doesn't give a rat's ass about where he hits in the lineup. He'll hit anywhere, one through nine, that Ozzie puts him and he'll be happy because he's in the lineup. Players that have that attitude and can still be productive are rare. Aaron Rowand is Ozzie's wild card. Ozzie needs a lead off hitter, Rowand bats lead off. Ozzie needs a #3 hitter, Rowand fills the role quite capably.

 

Frank is comfortable at number 3. Rowand is comfortable whereever. Ozzie is no idiot. He's using this particular feature of Rowand to his advantage.

Updating....

 

Hurt -- 9-2

Carl -- 26-12

Rowand -- 15-9