SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 12:47 PM) Since when is a players defense quantified by boards? Trust me this guy follows the NBA Have you ever heard of defensive rebounds??? :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 05:44 PM) No camby? Good call, I forgot to mention Camby, one of my favorite players in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 12:47 PM) Holy s***, Rosenbaum ain't all there, is he? First off, Kenyon Martin is a much better defensive player than Nene Hilario. Andrei Kirilenko should be ranked strictly as a SF right now, as Boozer mans the PF 99% of the time in Utah. Joe Pryzbilla is as slow-footed as they come. Holy f***ing s***. Dikembe Mutombo can't even jump in 2005. How in the hell does he get ranked? Jason Collins is competent defensively, he's nothing special. Mark Blount is a terrific on-the-ball defender. He might lack size, but come on, bottom 5 while Pryzbilla, Motombo, and Collins are in the Top 5? Nick Collison is NOT, I repeat NOT a candidate for a list of top defensive players at his position. OMG, Emeka Okafor is maybe 10,000 times the defender? No mention of him? As if Nene ahead of Kenyon Martin wasn't bad enough, they put Collison ahead of him as well. WHERE IN THE f*** IS JERMAINE O'NEAL. I realize that this is why people like nitetrain or whomever are wrong half the time. You can't read these articles. You are done for if you do. I need like half a dozen advil. And a gun. I'd like to meet this guy in a bar and just tear his basketball world apart. God damn, would that be sweet. Just passing it along Since you seem interested,you can read more here. The list came from... Another approach is to use plus/minus statistics to measure how a team defends when a player is in the game versus when he is not. It would seem odd to say that a player was a good defender when his team defended better when he was on the bench than when he was in the game. Edited August 1, 2005 by WHarris1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 12:44 PM) Mutumbo at number 2??? He of the 5 boards and 1 block per game??? No he of the 5th in boards/48 minutes and 6th in blocks/48 minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 05:50 PM) Just passing it along Since you seem interested,you can read more here. The list came from... Are there any credible writers out there who actually use their eyes when analyzing basketball, as opposed to letting stat sheets make their decisions for them? Because any fool can see that Kenyon Martin makes Nick Collison look like Dickey Simpkins on defense. Any fool can see that Marcus Camby and Jermaine O'Neal are impact defenders...they both get Top 3 consideration at their respective positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 01:12 PM) Are there any credible writers out there who actually use their eyes when analyzing basketball, as opposed to letting stat sheets make their decisions for them? Because any fool can see that Kenyon Martin makes Nick Collison look like Dickey Simpkins on defense. Any fool can see that Marcus Camby and Jermaine O'Neal are impact defenders...they both get Top 3 consideration at their respective positions. Don't kill the messanger. Just passing this along for a strange perspective on the top defending bigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 06:14 PM) Don't kill the messanger. Just passing this along for a strange perspective on the top defending bigs. Oh no, you're the man Willie. I'm just criticizing the writer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 That's incredibly ridulous that Collison and Nene are ahead of Kirilenko and Wallace. Kirilenko is something on D, although he is somewhat of a tweener. Dalembert not being on there mystifies me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 The Grizzlies are reportedly in talks with two other teams, including the Miami Heat about a trade involving Jason Williams. The other team may be the Celtics, but it's tough to say. It sounds like the Grizzlies are prepared to dismantle their team (they're probably going to lose Williams, Earl Watson and Lorenzen Wright in addition to Stromile Swift and Bonzi Wells this summer) but hope to still make the playoffs. Damon Stoudamire is possibly going to be their starting point guard this year, if they can sign him. Aug. 1 - 3:06 pm et Eddy Curry still doesn't have a deal, or insurance on his heart for this season. The only thing he knows is that he's getting married on August 20. He still hopes to land insurance and he is still hoping for a big contract from the Bulls (or Hawks), but neither appear likely at this point. Aug. 1 - 2:35 pm et I love how everyone said he will still sign a max contract after his heart condition was known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) No he of the 5th in boards/48 minutes and 6th in blocks/48 minutes. He doesn't get minutes for a reason. He's OLD and worn-out. He plays very limited minutes and is nowhere near the defensive monster he was in his prime. To call him the 2nd best defensive center in the league right now shows how horribly stupid whatever calculations that guy is using. Please stop defending him, for the sake of your "credibility." No numbers you bring up will make mutumbo worthy of being called a top 10 defensive center at this point in his career, much less the 2nd best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 02:57 PM) I love how everyone said he will still sign a max contract after his heart condition was known. The only team that would have done it would have been the hawks. I still don't believe Pax would have matched a max after the heart problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 1, 2005 Author Share Posted August 1, 2005 Jeff McInnis is going to sign with New Jersey for two years and $7 million. He was the starter in Cleveland last year, but fell out of favor with the coaching staff (and fans) and became a problem in the locker room toward the end of the season. However, he knows he's going to be backing up Jason Kidd and Vince Carter at the two guard positions going into Jersey, so he'll hopefully have his attitude adjusted this year. The Nets just keep getting better and better. Jul. 29 - 12:45 pm et Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 1, 2005 Share Posted August 1, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 03:48 PM) He doesn't get minutes for a reason. He's OLD and worn-out. He plays very limited minutes and is nowhere near the defensive monster he was in his prime. To call him the 2nd best defensive center in the league right now shows how horribly stupid whatever calculations that guy is using. Please stop defending him, for the sake of your "credibility." No numbers you bring up will make mutumbo worthy of being called a top 10 defensive center at this point in his career, much less the 2nd best. I'm not defending him if you had any ability to comprehend what you read you would know that. It's f***ing dumb as s*** to trash a guys numbers when he plays 15 mpg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(GBlum## @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 04:22 PM) I'm not defending him if you had any ability to comprehend what you read you would know that. It's f***ing dumb as s*** to trash a guys numbers when he plays 15 mpg. HE PLAYS THOSE MINUTES FOR A REASON. Please learn to comprehend what you read. Touchy 'cause you had to change your name? Edited August 2, 2005 by SleepyWhiteSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:06 PM) HE PLAYS THOSE MINUTES FOR A REASON. Please learn to comprehend what you read. So you rip his 1 rebound/3 minutes? That's intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(GBlum## @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:07 PM) So you rip his 1 rebound/3 minutes? That's intelligent. I ripped him being ranked the 2nd best center defender. Seriously, what part didn't you understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:08 PM) I ripped him being ranked the 2nd best center defender. Seriously, what part didn't you understand? The part where you said he's not the #2 defensive center because he averages 1 board/3 minutes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(GBlum## @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 09:09 PM) The part where you said he's not the #2 defensive center because he averages 1 board/3 minutes Nice name. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(GBlum## @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:09 PM) The part where you said he's not the #2 defensive center because he averages 1 board/3 minutes So does that make him the 2nd best defender in your eyes? You were the one who asked what rebounds mean to defense...I then had to point out the word "defensive" in the term defensive rebounds. I POINTED OUT HIS NUMBERS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE THE 2ND BEST CENTER DEFENDER IN THE LEAGUE IF YOU ONLY PLAY 10 MINUTES PER. What in the hell are you arguing exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:11 PM) Nice name. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:12 PM) So does that make him the 2nd best defender in your eyes? You were the one who asked what rebounds mean to defense...I then had to point out the word "defensive" in the term defensive rebounds. I POINTED OUT HIS NUMBERS BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BE THE 2ND BEST CENTER DEFENDER IN THE LEAGUE IF YOU ONLY PLAY 10 MINUTES PER. What in the hell are you arguing exactly? Did I say he was the 2nd best defender? I'm arguing that saying a guy is weak defensively by pointing out his 1 rebound/3 minutes and respectable block total is weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(GBlum## @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:14 PM) Did I say he was the 2nd best defender? I'm arguing that saying a guy is weak defensively by pointing out his 1 rebound/3 minutes and respectable block total is weird. Point out where I called him a weak defender. A shadow of his former self means I recognize what type of defender he once was but I clearly pointed out that he is no longer elite. Is he still serviceable? Yep. Is he elite? Hell no. If you were to read my posts, you'd understand that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:17 PM) Point out where I called him a weak defender. A shadow of his former self means I recognize what type of defender he once was but I clearly pointed out that he is no longer elite. Is he still serviceable? Yep. Is he elite? Hell no. If you were to read my posts, you'd understand that... Ok, take out weak and put in, not the 2nd best. I'm arguing that saying a guy is not great defensively by pointing out his 1 rebound/3 minutes and respectable block total is weird. Better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 QUOTE(GBlum## @ Aug 1, 2005 -> 10:18 PM) Ok, take out weak and put in, not the 2nd best. I'm arguing that saying a guy is not great defensively by pointing out his 1 rebound/3 minutes and respectable block total is weird. Better? Fine. And I still say "great" is a stretch. He was once dominant...then great...but I don't consider him great anymore. We're arguing two different things anyways. The point of my posts is that he isn't 2nd best and I provided about 5 examples of far superior defensive centers. I guess the outcome is that you consider him to still be great a great defender while I consider him good, at best. Also, minutes are earned. If you're not gettin' your minutes, you probably don't deserve them. I don't consider role players elite because they aren't called upon to do it on a consistent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted August 2, 2005 Author Share Posted August 2, 2005 "It’s beginning to appear that Atlanta, which had about $24 million in salary-cap room to spend, is turning its sights away from Curry and Chandler. Curry had a recruiting visit with the Hawks in July, and Chandler was reportedly invited to Atlanta but hasn’t gone." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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