QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:00 AM)

Jose Vizcaino can bearly field his position when he's pitching, how do you expect him to play thirdbase well?

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That's not the point.

Mark Bellhorn has been excellent at second base over the last two seasons.

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I really don't think he's all that great at 3rd base but either way, his OBP would be a huge upgrade over Crede's. Start Bellhorn at 3rd base for his offense and then use Crede as a defensive sub late in the game.

Confirmed!  In the Trib!  (Of course you need to register, but if you're a Sox fan, c'mon.)

Ha, still have my bugmenot login going from when we rigged the polls.

Confirmed!  In the Trib!  (Of course you need to register, but if you're a Sox fan, c'mon.)

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YAY! No one will ban me now for providing false information!

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 04:59 AM)

I must have missed his good defensive player.  All I remember were the Red Sox fans chanting "Pokey, Pokey" early during the season cause Bellhorn was a butcher at 2nd base last season.

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False. They chanted "Pokey" for no other reason that he would come late in games in key situations after replacing him defensively with runners on base and he would promptly end the inning ala Mark Bellhorn of 2005.

That's not the point.

Well then who exactly did you mean when you said "Jose Vizcaino" did you mean Jose Valentin? Because he f***ing sucked at third.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...ack=1&cset=true

The Sox opened a spot on their 40-man roster by outrighting Charlotte pitcher Matt Smith.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:01 AM)

I really don't think he's all that great at 3rd base but either way, his OBP would be a huge upgrade over Crede's.  Start Bellhorn at 3rd base for his offense and then use Crede as a defensive sub late in the game.

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I'm not saying he's great, I mean as Kalapse pointed out he is compared to Jose Vizcaino. The fact of the matter is he's better than Timo in the outfield, Pablo at third, etc. and considering he's a guy who actually gets on base (what a concept) he would fit in with the White Sox.

False.  They chanted "Pokey" for no other reason that he would come late in games in key situations after replacing him defensively with runners on base and he would promptly end the inning ala Mark Bellhorn of 2005.

 

That's definitely not accurate. Last year, Bellhorn had a bad habit of just letting balls go right through his legs. Thus, Boston fans would start chanting Pokey after Bellhorn errors. My best friend's favorite player was Bellhorn, so I vividly remember when that happened.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:02 AM)

Well then who exactly did you mean when you said "Jose Vizcaino" did you mean Jose Valentin? Because he f***ing sucked at third.

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I meant Jose Vizcaino. The point is that Chipper Jones, David Bell, Joe Crede, Mark Bellhorn... These aren't stellar defensive players, and Bellhorn isn't as bad defensively as some would think.

False.  They chanted "Pokey" for no other reason that he would come late in games in key situations after replacing him defensively with runners on base and he would promptly end the inning ala Mark Bellhorn of 2005.

Bulls***. Pokey was a folk hero last season.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:04 AM)

That's definitely not accurate.  Last year, Bellhorn had a bad habit of just letting balls go right through his legs.  Thus, Boston fans would start chanting Pokey after Bellhorn errors.  My best friend's favorite player was Bellhorn, so I vividly remember when that happened.

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Hmm, thats odd. I am a big Bellhorn fan aswell.

I'm not saying he's great, I mean as Kalapse pointed out he is compared to Jose Vizcaino.  The fact of the matter is he's better than Timo in the outfield, Pablo at third, etc. and considering he's a guy who actually gets on base (what a concept) he would fit in with the White Sox.

 

Bellhorn has less than 10 ABs while playing in the outfield in his entire MLB career.

I meant Jose Vizcaino.  The point is that Chipper Jones, David Bell, Joe Crede, Mark Bellhorn... These aren't stellar defensive players, and Bellhorn isn't as bad defensively as some would think.

How do you compare a RP to a 3B defensively? That makes no sense.

I'm not saying he's great, I mean as Kalapse pointed out he is compared to Jose Vizcaino.  The fact of the matter is he's better than Timo in the outfield, Pablo at third, etc. and considering he's a guy who actually gets on base (what a concept) he would fit in with the White Sox.

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Timo sucks, don't get me wrong, but I don't see how you can say that Bellhorn is better defensively in the outfield than Timo. Bellhorn has played 7 career games in the outfield and had only 1 start which was in RF...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stat...ontext=fielding

 

But I do agree with you about Bellhorn probably being worth it regardless of his defense at 3rd base just because his OBP is so much better than Crede's.

Edited August 25, 200520 yr by GoSoxGo

Bulls***. Pokey was a folk hero last season.

 

Cheat, I don't know how much stock you put into 'mgl', but didn't he say that UZR had Bellhorn at about average defensively at second? Or, slightly above?

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:06 AM)

Bulls***. Pokey was a folk hero last season.

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Yes, he did have a name that rolled off the toungue.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:06 AM)

How do you compare a RP to a 3B defensively? That makes no sense.

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Jose Vizcaino is/was a middle infielder. Was on a Championship Yankee team, spent the last few years with Houston.

Cheat, I don't know how much stock you put into 'mgl', but didn't he say that UZR had Bellhorn at about average defensively at second?  Or, slightly above?

It's the best thing out there, but it's underground now.

 

The only thing you'll be able to find on the net is 2000-2003 data. Not exactly useful.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:06 AM)

Timo sucks, don't get me wrong, but I don't see how you can say that Bellhorn is better defensively in the outfield than Timo.  Bellhorn has played 7 career games in the outfield and had only 1 start which was in RF...

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stat...ontext=fielding

 

But I do agree with you about Bellhorn probably being worth it regardless of his defense at 3rd base just because his OBP is so much better than Crede's.

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Your putting words into my mouth. Bellhorn makes more sense at third base than Timo Perez does in the outfield is what I was saying.

It's the best thing out there, but it's underground now.

 

The only thing you'll be able to find on the net is 2000-2003 data. Not exactly useful.

 

Do they have a link to how it's measured, who made it up, stuff like that, over at the BTF wiki page?

Jose Vizcaino is/was a middle infielder.  Was on a Championship Yankee team, spent the last few years with Houston. 

Where the f*** is my head?

 

How is it possible for a person to mix up Ricardo Rincon and Jose Vizcaino?

Edited August 25, 200520 yr by Kalapse

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:09 AM)

Where the f*** is my head?

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Why dont you go back to the White Sox board, you jerk! Your just a stupid White Sox fan who doesn't even know who Jose Vizcaino is! you.. you.. stupid idiot! butt head!

 

:headshake

Your putting words into my mouth.  Bellhorn makes more sense at third base than Timo Perez does in the outfield is what I was saying.

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Ahhh, okay. I wasn't putting words in your mouth. I just misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

 

But I can definately agree with that. I would rather see Bellhorn at 3rd base than Timo in LF.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:11 AM)

Ahhh, okay.  I wasn't putting words in your mouth.  I just misinterpreted what you were trying to say.

 

But I can definately agree with that.  I would rather see Bellhorn at 3rd base than Timo in LF.

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Correct.