QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:08 AM)

It's the best thing out there, but it's underground now.

 

The only thing you'll be able to find on the net is 2000-2003 data. Not exactly useful.

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It is definitly the best thing out there, and how the comparisons were created.

I'm through arguing Timo's position/use on the team. He's not going anywhere. Might as well root for him to be good, as I don't think he could do anything on the field that would get him released.

Correct. 

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Bellhorn at the bottom of our lineup would be a million times better than Crede there. If Ozzie can play Ozuna at 3rd base, I don't see why we couldn't play Bellhorn there and use Crede as a defensive sub.

I'm not ripping Ozzie for this, but if he had to choose between a good defensive 3rd baseman, or a below average defensive 3rd baseman who is very good at drawing walks....I think he'll take Crede every time. The last thing our team needs is another hitter in the .230s. Walks are good, but we need guys to step up and get a big hit.

I'm through arguing Timo's position/use on the team.  He's not going anywhere.  Might as well root for him to be good, as I don't think he could do anything on the field that would get him released.

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Especially not after Timo just went 2 for 4 with a walk tonight. It's just like when Neifi comes through for Dusty and the Cubs. Ozzie will use Dusty's excuse for playing him -- "Timo is a proven veteran that comes through for us in clutch situations!"

 

You're right. Timo is going to get his playing time. We may as well root for him to do something positive. :puke

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:17 AM)

I'm not ripping Ozzie for this, but if he had to choose between a good defensive 3rd baseman, or a below average defensive 3rd baseman who is very good at drawing walks....I think he'll take Crede every time.  The last thing our team needs is another hitter in the .230s.  Walks are good, but we need guys to step up and get a big hit.

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Crede gets a hit how much more often than Bellhorn does? Maybe 1 more hit out of every 30 at bats? the White Sox aren't a small ball team right now, having base runners with a team that only produces runs by the way of the home run would be ideal.

I'm not ripping Ozzie for this, but if he had to choose between a good defensive 3rd baseman, or a below average defensive 3rd baseman who is very good at drawing walks....I think he'll take Crede every time.  The last thing our team needs is another hitter in the .230s.  Walks are good, but we need guys to step up and get a big hit.

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But Crede isn't hitting at all currently and he has NEVER been able to draw a walk. If you are going to have a .240 hitting 3rd baseman, you may as well have the one with the high OBP. Although Crede makes up for some of his garbage stick with his great glove. I guess it's just a matter of how much would Bellhorn's offense outweigh his inferior [to Crede's] glove.

Crede gets a hit how much more often than Bellhorn does?  Maybe 1 more hit out of every 30 at bats?  the White Sox aren't a small ball team right now, having base runners with a team that only produces runs by the way of the home run would be ideal.

 

We got Geoff Blum to back-up 3rd base. Like it or not, there's no room for Bellhorn on this team. He's a butcher at 3rd base, so it's not really an option. I would take Blum over Bellhorn defensively at 3rd base in a second.

Crede gets a hit how much more often than Bellhorn does?  Maybe 1 more hit out of every 30 at bats?  the White Sox aren't a small ball team right now, having base runners with a team that only produces runs by the way of the home run would be ideal.

Would you say that Crede gets to about 1 in 30 more balls than Bellhorn? I would say that's a conservative estimate.

 

How long does it take for belhorn to get 30 plate appearences? On this team it will take him 8 games. -- Over those 8 games how many more hits do you think Crede would wipe out on defense over Bellhorn?

 

 

Simply put, Crede>Bellhorn, despite what the numbers may say.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:23 AM)

Would you say that Crede gets to about 1 in 30 more balls than Bellhorn? I would say that's a conservative estimate.

 

How long does it take for belhorn to get 30 plate appearences? On this team it will take him 8 games. -- Over those 8 games how many more hits do you think Crede would wipe out on defense over Bellhorn?

Simply put, Crede>Bellhorn, despite what the numbers may say.

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Well it's all opinion here, my freind. Like I said earlier, I am a fan of Mark's.

Trust me, I'm not a fan of Crede. However, after watching Ozuna the Butcher at 3rd base this week, I'm 100 pct more confident with Crede in the field.

We got Geoff Blum to back-up 3rd base.  Like it or not, there's no room for Bellhorn on this team.  He's a butcher at 3rd base, so it's not really an option.  I would take Blum over Bellhorn defensively at 3rd base in a second.

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Of course. I would too. But Bellhorn is a better offensive player than Blum.

 

And there IS room for Bellhorn on our roster...

 

1.) Subtract Jon Adkins and Brian Anderson

2.) Add Scott Podsednik and Mark Bellhorn

Of course.  I would too.  But Bellhorn is a better offensive player than Blum.

 

And there IS room for Bellhorn on our roster...

 

1.)  Subtract Jon Adkins and Brian Anderson

2.)  Add Scott Podsednik and Mark Bellhorn

 

I don't mean no room on the roster. Rather, room in our rotation to play.

Well, back to the original topic, I don't see much of a reason to make this move unless there was a reason to free up a roster spot. Could it be for a transaction in the near future, or is it just a move to free up a spot to call someone up with September call-ups? Do we have anyone not on the 40 man who might get promoted?

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:28 AM)

Well, back to the original topic, I don't see much of a reason to make this move unless there was a reason to free up a roster spot.  Could it be for a transaction in the near future, or is it just a move to free up a spot to call someone up with September call-ups?  Do we have anyone not on the 40 man who might get promoted?

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I apologize in advance, but one more point on Bellhorn. If Ozzie can't find a place on the field for a player who would have the fourth best on-base percentage on the team, then he clearly isn't playing with a full deck of cards.

I don't mean no room on the roster.  Rather, room in our rotation to play.

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Bellhorn is a switch-hitter. Start Bellhorn at 3rd base against most righties and use Crede as a defensive sub for him. Start Crede against lefties. Blum would mainly backup 1st base just like Gload did last season. He could also backup SS and 3B if necessary. Since when does Blum have to get playing time? Afterall, he is a bench player.

Edited August 25, 200520 yr by GoSoxGo

How do you compare a RP to a 3B defensively? That makes no sense.

Jose Vizcaino was the Cub/Dodger/Brewer/Met IF.

 

LUIS Vizcaino is the Sox RP.

Well, back to the original topic, I don't see much of a reason to make this move unless there was a reason to free up a roster spot.  Could it be for a transaction in the near future, or is it just a move to free up a spot to call someone up with September call-ups?  Do we have anyone not on the 40 man who might get promoted?

Isn't it too early for that, though? I can't think of any reason to do this now w/o a move coming.

Since when does Blum have to get playing time?  Afterall, he is a bench player.

 

Since we traded for him. Everyone knew Bellhorn was going to be released, so if we really wanted him, we wouldn't have traded for Blum. I just think that Bellhorn isn't the type of player that Ozzie wants on this team.

QUOTE(GoSoxGo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:31 AM)

Bellhorn is a switch-hitter.  Start Bellhorn at 3rd base against most righties and use Crede as a defensive sub for him.  Start Crede against lefties.  Blum would mainly backup 1st base just like Gload last season.  He could also backup SS and 3B if necessary.  Since when does Blum have to get playing time?  Afterall, he is a bench player.

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The versatility for a team with two guys who can play all over the field would benefit not hurt this team.

Isn't it too early for that, though?  I can't think of any reason to do this now w/o a move coming.

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Neither can I. The only guy not on the 40-man roster that would have made sense to add would have been Jerry Owens. But Pods will be back Monday so that isn't it. IMO, the most reasonable answer is that the spot was cleared so Kenny has room to either claim a player or swing a trade for one.

The versatility for a team with two guys who can play all over the field would benefit not hurt this team.

 

In one week, we'll be able to call up some guys that will give us depth at many positions. Maybe earlier in the year Bellhorn would have made sense. However, I just don't think the timing is right for him. I still don't think he's the same player he was last year.

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:34 AM)

Since we traded for him.  Everyone knew Bellhorn was going to be released, so if we really wanted him, we wouldn't have traded for Blum.  I just think that Bellhorn isn't the type of player that Ozzie wants on this team.

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What kind of players does Ozzie want? Useless players like Timo Perez who aren't good defensively, aren't versatile, aren't speedy, aren't good offensively, doesn't take pitches?

What kind of players does Ozzie want?  Useless players like Timo Perez who aren't good defensively, aren't versatile, aren't speedy, aren't good offensively, doesn't take pitches?

 

YES!!!!

QUOTE(fathom @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:35 AM)

In one week, we'll be able to call up some guys that will give us depth at many positions.  Maybe earlier in the year Bellhorn would have made sense.  However, I just don't think the timing is right for him.  I still don't think he's the same player he was last year.

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Just a difference of opinion I guess.