A big thanks to Rex and Krush. I saw the entire game and I was still confused until I read this thread.

Just to shed some light on this from an experienced plate umpire.

 

Regardless of whether or not the ball hit the ground, the umpire ruled 'out.' An arm extended means strike 3, the fist means 'batter is out'.  Once he does this, he CANNOT ask for help at all. He's out, regardless of whether the ball hit the dirt or whatever any other umpire says.

 

I'll take it. Sox win. But this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen.

 

actually his extended arm is "no contact" and then he made the strike 3 signal. watching this guy all night, i believe if a.j. was out the ump would do the splitz and a spin ala enrico palatzo.

actually his extended arm is "no contact" and then he made the strike 3 signal.  watching this guy all night, i believe if a.j. was out the ump would do the splitz and a spin ala enrico palatzo.

Tell me you didn't only read the first post of this thread and respond

Tell me about it.  I keep getting im's from people just saying "BULLs***" like 20 times over and again.  Whatever, I just want Friday to get here, tomorrow is going to be a long day.

 

It would be even longer if we were down 0-2. I'll take it anyway we can get it. The haters can f*** off. If it was there team, they would have no problem with it.

Not based on what he did all game.  I'm not about to re-hash what i've posted throughout this thing.

 

I have finished reading the thread since my first post, so there is no need to "rehash". But if he makes the same sequence of motions on strike two, how can it be interpretted as an out call? That makes no sense.

It would be even longer if we were down 0-2.  I'll take it anyway we can get it.  The haters can f*** off.  If it was there team,  they would have no problem with it.

Oh no f***in doubt jordan. I hate offdays to begin with but especially in the alcs, I just want to play the game.

I have finished reading the thread since my first post, so there is no need to "rehash".  But if he makes the same sequence of motions on strike two, how can it be interpretted as an out call?  That makes no sense.

By the same logic, if he does the same motion on strike three swinging calls and the batter is out (without any additional motion), how can it not mean strike three swining the batter is out. ESPN showed this a bunch of times.

 

Also, again...on the Molina at bat, he did NOT signal a fist after he swung through a strike three and the ball hit the dirt. He waited til AJ tagged him, then did the fist, quite obviously for the out at that point.

By the same logic, if he does the same motion on strike three swinging calls and the batter is out (without any additional motion), how can it not mean strike three swining the batter is out. ESPN showed this a bunch of times.

 

Also, again...on the Molina at bat, he did NOT signal a fist after he swung through a strike three and the ball hit the dirt. He waited til AJ tagged him, then did the fist, quite obviously for the out at that point.

 

krush i agree with you. horrible job by the ump. but as an ump myself (granted for babe ruth baseball) i empathize with the dude. i once made a call at home where i yelled SAFE (cuz he was) but punched my fist like i was calling out... needless to say chaos ensued.

 

difference is i wasnt getting paid s***loads and i wasnt doing the MLB playoffs...

By the same logic, if he does the same motion on strike three swinging calls and the batter is out (without any additional motion), how can it not mean strike three swining the batter is out. ESPN showed this a bunch of times.

 

Also, again...on the Molina at bat, he did NOT signal a fist after he swung through a strike three and the ball hit the dirt. He waited til AJ tagged him, then did the fist, quite obviously for the out at that point.

 

To answer your question, the batter would be out on strike three when the umpire says "You're Out!". That would be the difference. He didn't make that call on A. J.

So the pause on Molina without a fist means...

 

I'm off to bed. This thread's been fun though.

 

Let's go win Friday.

To answer your question, the batter would be out on strike three when the umpire says "You're Out!".  That would be the difference.  He didn't make that call on A. J.

 

in truth it is all about what the ump says verbally. only problem is that in the REAL game of baseball a lot of the calls go unsaid. ie every play at first base for example. one begins to rely on the signals and in that dept. the ump really f***ed up.

WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA........ just wait a minute......

 

there was a baseball game tonight?

I have only one question:

 

If Eddings did indeed signal that he was out, then why would watching AJ run to first make him change his mind? This is a professional umpire with years of MLB experience. Do you honestly think that after calling AJ out he changed his mind? These guys stand by their calls to a fault, IMO. He never hesitated watching AJ run to first the whole way. If in his mind he had already called him out then he would've waived him off and said you're out, why the hell are you running to first?!

 

I think you have to give the ump the benefit of the doubt on this one.

This just proves that the Sox luck of early season ie. 2 unearned runs vs. KC, has returned.

 

I for one, am stoked for game 3.

I have only one question:

 

If Eddings did indeed signal that he was out, then why would watching AJ run to first make him change his mind? This is a professional umpire with years of MLB experience. Do you honestly think that after calling AJ out he changed his mind? These guys stand by their calls to a fault, IMO. He never hesitated watching AJ run to first the whole way. If in his mind he had already called him out then he would've waived him off and said you're out, why the hell are you running to first?!

 

I think you have to give the ump the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

I think that is the best point made yet. No way an ump changes his call under those circumstances.

I have only one question:

 

If Eddings did indeed signal that he was out, then why would watching AJ run to first make him change his mind? This is a professional umpire with years of MLB experience. Do you honestly think that after calling AJ out he changed his mind? These guys stand by their calls to a fault, IMO. He never hesitated watching AJ run to first the whole way. If in his mind he had already called him out then he would've waived him off and said you're out, why the hell are you running to first?!

 

I think you have to give the ump the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

 

If AJ really thought the ball hit the dirt, then why did he take a step towards the dugout? Good deke AJ.

 

What bothers me is the assuption that the Angels would have won this game. The score was tied and heading into extra innings. We will never know how it would have ended if AJ runs to the dugout instead of first. So Angel fans cannot say they would have won that game.

The ball changing direction upwards doesn't mean a whole lot, as it could have occured inside the mitt.

 

ESPN also showed quite a few replays on strike three calls where he did the arm and the fist pump. When Molina struck out and the ball hit the dirt, he did the arm...then nothing. AJ then tagged Molina, and then he did the fist.

 

Based on the precedent he set over the course of the game, he used the wrong mechanics during the AJ at bat.

 

I still disagree with ya on that part Krush. How can the ball change direction inside the mitt before it touches the mitt? The glove didn't move until the ball hit the webbing, which was after the change of direction. Even if the catcher's mitt completely surrounded the ball it is not a catch until it actually hits the glove. It did not hit the glove and move up inside the glove because you would have seen the glove move before that.

 

For a change of direction to occur, the ball has to hit something and that occurred before it touched the glove. Watch it again in slow mo. I think you will agree.

 

I do agree that the mechanics used were incorrect. The fist pump should not have been used there. But that did not affect what Josh Paul did.

I have finished reading the thread since my first post, so there is no need to "rehash".  But if he makes the same sequence of motions on strike two, how can it be interpretted as an out call?  That makes no sense.

 

It just does Yas. In that situation, he should have extended his right arm as he first did, and then did nothing until an out was recorded. If you see an earlier at bat where the ball skipped into AJ's glove, he waited until AJ tagged Molina (I believe) to signal with his fist.

 

Because it was strike three and the play was still live with no out recorded, the fist pump should not have taken place at that time.

Fact is, on this type of call, the fist pump indicates strike, NOT out...it CANNOT indicate an out. On a play such as this, an out must be called VERBALLY, which it never was.

 

I'll take it. I didn't see the Angels fans crying when Cano was ruled out of base line last week vs the Yankees, which was boarderline, since it's never called...and then it suddenly was, could have costed the Yankees game 5.

I still disagree with ya on that part Krush.  How can the ball change direction inside the mitt before it touches the mitt?  The glove didn't move until the ball hit the webbing, which was after the change of direction.  Even if the catcher's mitt completely surrounded the ball it is not a catch until it actually hits the glove.  It did not hit the glove and move up inside the glove because you would have seen the glove move before that.

 

For a change of direction to occur, the ball has to hit something and that occurred before it touched the glove.  Watch it again in slow mo.  I think you will agree.

 

I do agree that the mechanics used were incorrect.  The fist pump should not have been used there.  But that did not affect what Josh Paul did.

 

With the distance from the front to the back of a glove, I could see the ball hitting the webbing, fingers, etc and then heading to the palm, therefor changing directions. If balls can bounce out of gloves, why can't they bounce and stay?

With the distance from the front to the back of a glove, I could see the ball hitting the webbing, fingers, etc and then heading to the palm, therefor changing directions. If balls can bounce out of gloves, why can't they bounce and stay?

 

If that happened you would have seen the glove move at first contact. It didn't. Second, the way the glove was being held, there was no other part of the glove for it to hit before the webbing. The webbing was the first point of contact due to the position of the glove.

If that happened you would have seen the glove move at first contact.  It didn't.  Second, the way the glove was being held, there was no other part of the glove for it to hit before the webbing.  The webbing was the first point of contact due to the position of the glove.

 

What part of the glove do you think should move if it hit webbing? It seems to me if the webbing is directly on the ground there is no place for the glove to move to, the ball would compress the webbing against the ground. Plus at 90 mph, it would happen so fast. Maybe 8 - 10 nanoseconds from the webbing to the palm.

 

Whether or not it actually happened that way is open to interpretation, but the theory of he caught it is plausible to me.

Look at this...if the Angels fans can accept this, then they can accept what happened last night. Bunch of whiners.

 

Look At The Cano Play

 

Look at that, then tell me what you think...

The Angel fans are acting exactly like every other fan in every other city would act. I take that back, Philly fans would be looking for the ump.