One of those stories that you really hope...

[Rex Kickass]

When we talked about torture being acceptable or not - this is one of the stories that I had in mind. It's a far cry from bonbons and I really hope that the story is inaccurate.

 

 

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internation...1664612,00.html

 

If even half of this story is true, what does this say about us as a society? What does it say about how we're handling the war on terror?

 

Please don't slip into discrediting the story or anyone that might be involved. What I want to see here is what your reaction would be IF this story is true.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

When we talked about torture being acceptable or not - this is one of the stories that I had in mind. It's a far cry from bonbons and I really hope that the story is inaccurate.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internation...1664612,00.html

 

If even half of this story is true, what does this say about us as a society? What does it say about how we're handling the war on terror?

 

Please don't slip into discrediting the story or anyone that might be involved. What I want to see here is what your reaction would be IF this story is true.

 

 

That guy has a creative imagination.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

When we talked about torture being acceptable or not - this is one of the stories that I had in mind. It's a far cry from bonbons and I really hope that the story is inaccurate.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internation...1664612,00.html

 

If even half of this story is true, what does this say about us as a society? What does it say about how we're handling the war on terror?

 

Please don't slip into discrediting the story or anyone that might be involved. What I want to see here is what your reaction would be IF this story is true.

What did Nietzsche say about fighting monsters again?

[Rex Kickass]

That guy has a creative imagination.

And the scars to prove it.

 

Seriously Nuke - if this story was true. What would you say it says about us?

[Balta1701]

When we talked about torture being acceptable or not - this is one of the stories that I had in mind. It's a far cry from bonbons and I really hope that the story is inaccurate.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internation...1664612,00.html

 

If even half of this story is true, what does this say about us as a society? What does it say about how we're handling the war on terror?

 

Please don't slip into discrediting the story or anyone that might be involved. What I want to see here is what your reaction would be IF this story is true.

After hearing so many of these stories...my reaction "if" it is true is basically nothing...I'm just not surprised to hear about them any more. I could probably point at something on the order of a dozen solid cases saying the exact same thing, and those are only the folks who were released.

[Texsox]

Have we had any more planes crashing into buildings since this may have began? If it's true, it's working.

[G&T]

And the scars to prove it.

 

Seriously Nuke - if this story was true. What would you say it says about us?

 

If I picked up the Enquirer and showed you a picture of the "Bat-Boy" and asked you the same question, what would you say? The question is WHETHER the story is true, not what it means if it's true. To answer your question, it would be a bad thing.

 

What stands out to me in this story is that he went to Pakistan to kick a drug habit...I don't really know if that's a good place to go for that purpose, especially when he doesn't speak Arabic (supposedly). I don't know what else is spoken there but I doubt you can get by on your own with just english for an extended period.

[Rex Kickass]

Actually you can, because the British ruled Pakistan for a very long time. And he's Pakistani so its possible he speaks a third language other than English or Arabic.

 

But you're missing my point. If this story is true, of course its bad. But what would it say about our society? Would it make us the same as the people we're supposed to be better than? Would it just be "exuberance" in trying to defeat the bad guys? Does it make the line to determine who the bad guys are harder to define?

 

See, I'm a firm believer in trying to look at things from different viewpoints. Maybe what I'm asking is to have a conversation about whether torture is acceptable beyond our usual "Bush Bad/We can't just feed them candy" level we've been having. Because I think its a discussion worth having.

 

And because I think there are a bunch of people here who have been hiding behind partisan hackery rather than actually speak truthfully. And I'd like to hear what they have to say.

Edited December 11, 2005 by Rex Kickass

[G&T]

Actually you can, because the British ruled Pakistan for a very long time. And he's Pakistani so its possible he speaks a third language other than English or Arabic.

 

But you're missing my point. If this story is true, of course its bad. But what would it say about our society? Would it make us the same as the people we're supposed to be better than? Would it just be "exuberance" in trying to defeat the bad guys? Does it make the line to determine who the bad guys are harder to define?

 

See, I'm a firm believer in trying to look at things from different viewpoints. Maybe what I'm asking is to have a conversation about whether torture is acceptable beyond our usual "Bush Bad/We can't just feed them candy" level we've been having. Because I think its a discussion worth having.

 

And because I think there are a bunch of people here who have been hiding behind partisan hackery rather than actually speak truthfully. And I'd like to hear what they have to say.

 

If you want to have a discussion on the issue of torture then say that. Don't point to a particular case and ask, what appears to be, a question directed toward that specifically. I guess I misunderstood.

On to your question. I have trouble saying that the actions of a government in war time and in a place where civilians can't see show anything about society at all. It speaks solely toward the government, unless the people are made aware of what is happening for certain and they accept it.

However, I do know that the nation has not been attacked since 9/11 on our soil despite everyone saying that our airport security is horrible. I'd say that something is going right in the effort to take the battle to our enemies.

I, personally, do not like the idea of torture or war just like anybody else, but sometimes it's the only message people will understand.

 

That's my opinion.

[Mercy!]

If I picked up the Enquirer and showed you a picture of the "Bat-Boy" and asked you the same question, what would you say? The question is WHETHER the story is true, not what it means if it's true. To answer your question, it would be a bad thing.

 

What stands out to me in this story is that he went to Pakistan to kick a drug habit...I don't really know if that's a good place to go for that purpose, especially when he doesn't speak Arabic (supposedly). I don't know what else is spoken there but I doubt you can get by on your own with just english for an extended period.

Okay, I admit I haven't read the article or followed this thread to the end. Just thought I'd point out that Arabic fluency isn't required in Pakistan.

 

Languages of Pakistan:

 

Punjabi 48%, Sindhi 12%, Siraiki (a Punjabi variant) 10%, Pashtu 8%, Urdu (official) 8%, Balochi 3%, Hindko 2%, Brahui 1%, English (official and lingua franca of Pakistani elite and most government ministries), Burushaski, and other 8%

[YASNY]

Okay Mr. Kickass, I'll answer your question. IF this is true, then somebody needs to indicted, convicted and sentenced to a long prison term. IF the CIA sanctioned this type of behavior, then the leadership in the CIA should also have to answer for it. IF this goes all the way to the White House, heads should roll all the way to White House.

 

The USA should be strong. The USA should be tough. But most importantly, the USA should always be in the right. I believe we, as a people, like to think that we are all of these. If our leadership is leading the USA down a path that our people find repulsive, then we need to change our leaders. I'm not talking about going from Rep to Dem either. I'm talking about backing up the damn truck and clearing the whole stinking lot of them out of office and putting people in office that believe America should always strive for being better and greater. Think of that in the context of a person always striving to improve himself and becoming better person. Our nation should always have that attitude.

[Rex Kickass]

Thanks Mr. Ny.

 

Sometimes I think that we forget - as a society - why we're supposed to be better than the people who we're fighting. I think we get caught up in the "any means necessary" mentality and forget that in most ways its more important for us to be right and true to the ideals that we live by. That our way of life is way more important than the information we might be able to squeeze out of some guy in Pakistan.

[jasonxctf]

except the info you squeeze out of the guy ends up to be total bs and cause nothing but unnecessary deversions of our government and total chaois and panic from our people.

[sec159row2]

ethiopian living in london travels to pakistan to kick a drug habit... ya just can't make that s*** up... he sounds like an innocent boy scout trying to get his rehab badge...