Was Guillen Out Of Line Last Night?

[Steff]

Haha getting lynched by a bunch of message boarders who think they know it all is a good time though.

 

 

 

You are getting on my nerves.

 

 

Having an opinion about how something was handled does not = being a know it all.

[soxpride77]

Ozzie shouldn't have had to asked Tracey to hit anybody, it was Vasquez's job to make sure that got done. Regardless of getting tossed or suspended, it was his responsibility to protect AJ, it was pretty weak of him not to do anything, especially since AJ is the catcher. You would think the starting pitcher would be right there for AJ. It should have never even come to having Tracey do it. You think for one second someone like Buerhle wouldn't bean someone in defense of a teammate. It just says a lot about how soft Vasquez is. He was pitching like garbage anyway, who cares if he got thrown out, and if he got suspended he could probably used the time to figure out why he give That being said, Ozzie made himselve look like an ass for berating Tracey in front of the cameras, should have been done in private. There was no reason to kill Trcey in front of his peers, when your starting pitcher should have gotten the job done in the first place.

[whitesoxfan101]

You are getting on my nerves.

Having an opinion about how something was handled does not = being a know it all.

 

No, but when your being ripped to shreds for no reason other than disagreeing with the teams manager over a controversial incident, and then constantly saying the same s*** over and over makes you a know it all and a prick.

[henry wiggins]

I think that Ozzie was out of line, but I'll say this: For anyone who's never been unfairly chewed-out by a moody boss before, welcome to the real world! It's not fair, but it happens all of the time. And it usually has nothing to do with you personally. Just let it go. Hopefully Tracey knows this.

 

I agree with this. I don't know if Ozzie was out of line or not; I wasn't there, I don't know ANYTHING about what Tracey was or wasn't told to do -- nobody here knows that, unless we have some Sox players posting incognito, which I doubt -- and so I don't know if the reaction was disproportionate to the offense.

 

Ozzie is a volatile guy. Lots of people don't like that about him. I don't think that bothers him much, frankly. And Sean Tracey's the rookie who was all ballsy in spring training, going into Ozzie's office and telling him he was going to make the team (or so I read). If Tracey was told to hit Blalock, and he had a problem with that instruction, he SHOULD HAVE spoken up before he went into the game. Because to fail to execute a command from your manager is to invite a meltdown that may be public, and will certainly be painful.

 

OTOH, if Tracey is so fragile that he is ruined as a big-league pitcher by last night's events, then it's a good thing the club found that out now, and not when they'd signed him to a million-dollar contract later on.

 

Ed Farmer recounted last night his rookie year when he was ordered by Billy Martin to hit an opposing player, upon Farmer being brought in from the pen. Farmer did it. It's baseball, and my liking it or not won't change that ...

[SouthSide78]

This article doesn't disagree with Guillen asking Tracey to hit Blaylock; it's just the scene that unfolded afterward he didn't like. Plunking is part of the game, so we might as well get over it.

 

http://www.sportsmemo.com/handicappers/veno/articles/633/

 

QUOTE

"I do, however, disagree with humiliating Tracey. Despite Guillen's combustible style, there’s got to be a better way to handle that situation. .."

[Gregory Pratt]

Nothing's wrong with asking him to hit Blalock.

Everything's wrong with throwing a temper tantrum with your water bottle and shrieking across the dugout at a rookie player in public.

[Kalapse]

Perhaps Ozzie has become Manny Ramirez, every time he does something totally off the wall and uncalled for we can say "Hey, it's just OZZIE BEING OZZIE!" Fun.

[henry wiggins]

Ozzie shouldn't have had to asked Tracey to hit anybody, it was Vasquez's job to make sure that got done.

 

Ozzie calls the shots on stuff like this, and he doesn't want to lose his fifth starter in mid-June, which would have happened if Vasquez got tossed or suspended. You call in the expendable player to do it, and that seems like what Ozzie did last night.

 

Tracey pitched just terribly on Sunday night at the Cell; I was at the game and when he threw a strike after 9 or 10 balls in a row, the fans applauded derisively. I figured then he was going to get sent down, and with Politte coming off the DL, someone had to go -- and then the Riske trade in the works, etc. So that all made Tracey the logical choice to plunk Blalock, if indeed Ozzie ordered it done.

Edited June 15, 2006 by henry wiggins

[jackie hayes]

Also why didn't Montero hit anyone its not like he had his good stuff going either.

Haven't seen an answer to this yet, and it's a good question.

[Steff]

No, but when your being ripped to shreds for no reason other than disagreeing with the teams manager over a controversial incident, and then constantly saying the same s*** over and over makes you a know it all and a prick.

 

 

 

Who the hell is ripping someone to shreads...?

 

 

I will agree.. I do see a prick in this thread.

 

 

 

 

This article doesn't disagree with Guillen asking Tracey to hit Blaylock; it's just the scene that unfolded afterward he didn't like. Plunking is part of the game, so we might as well get over it.

 

http://www.sportsmemo.com/handicappers/veno/articles/633/

 

QUOTE

"I do, however, disagree with humiliating Tracey. Despite Guillen's combustible style, there’s got to be a better way to handle that situation. .."

 

 

 

That writer is a prick. :rolly

[Kalapse]

Randy Johnson was suspended 5 games today by MLB along with Torre picking up a game. No warnings were given out and I'm pretty sure Randy didn't even hit Eduardo Perez.

 

If this is any indication I'd have to say Vazquez would have received something like 6-7 games for hitting a batter after warnings were given out and Ozzie more than likely would have picked up 2.

 

Just an FYI.

[jackie hayes]

Randy Johnson was suspended 5 games today by MLB along with Torre picking up a game. No warnings were given out and I'm pretty sure Randy didn't even hit Eduardo Perez.

 

If this is any indication I'd have to say Vazquez would have received something like 6-7 games for hitting a batter after warnings were given out and Ozzie more than likely would have picked up 2.

 

Just an FYI.

Which would have pushed back his start 2 days or so. Not great, but not the worst situation. In many ways, a reliever suspension hurts the team more.

[GoodAsGould]

Who the hell is ripping someone to shreads...?

I will agree.. I do see a prick in this thread.

That writer is a prick. :rolly

 

Dont mind him steff... I think he gets on everyone's nerves and really says a lot of dumb things anyways that dont add much to the conversation.

 

 

 

But as far as the Guillen situation goes....Im assuming that Guillen did it to show the whole team he isnt taking s*** and what he asks better get done. Im hoping Guillen spoke to Tracey afterwards and had a good talk with him because this is a lot different from the Rauch situation and I hope this doesnt affect Tracey's future with the whitesox.

[Kalapse]

Which would have pushed back his start 2 days or so. Not great, but not the worst situation. In many ways, a reliever suspension hurts the team more.

That would still throw off the whole rotation with having guys like Buehrle working on short rest or your pulling your best setup man out of the pen to make a start or maybe even bringing up a certain knuckleballer to make a start. Is it really worth it?

[Steff]

Dont mind him steff... I think he gets on everyone's nerves and really says a lot of dumb things anyways that dont add much to the conversation.

 

 

I'm not going that far.. but for the love of Ozzie... we ALL do this all season long. We Monday morning quarterback. Doesn't make anyone a prick. My $0.02.

 

 

Now... let me get back into b**** mode. This nice stuff is icky... :puke

 

 

[jackie hayes]

That would still throw off the whole rotation with having guys like Buehrle working on short rest or your pulling your best setup man out of the pen to make a start or maybe even bringing up a certain knuckleballer to make a start. Is it really worth it?

I think so. With appeals, perhaps they could push it to some time around the ASG, where you have a lot of flexibility in how to set up the rotation. I think that's a smaller problem than weakening an already questionable bullpen.

[3RDBASE]

^^^^Good point also remember all opinions aside...it's a Major League dugout, not some office or some backroom where this stuff gets handled differently in the corporate world...It's baseball, and being on a team with Ozzie means what he says goes, who cares if anyone thinks it was right or wrong...not going to change what happened or what will happen again...It's Ozzie's decisions whether we agree or not...if it helps everyone get their heads out of their butts and start to get that chip we had last year, then so be it...you all need to face the fact that this is part of the game...yes still, ugly as it may get, it is not a regular job with regular job rules on managerial decisions/repremands. my 2 pesos.

[WCSox]

I think so. With appeals, perhaps they could push it to some time around the ASG, where you have a lot of flexibility in how to set up the rotation. I think that's a smaller problem than weakening an already questionable bullpen.

 

The Sox need to focus on winning as many games as possible, especially with Detroit playing their asses off right now. I'm all for retaliation, but there's got to be a better way than to risk a suspension to Buehrle.

 

How about hitting the crap out of Rangers pitching tonight and then running up the score Steve Spurrier-style?

[mannyfast]

This has to be a tough call for a rookie. Do you go out there and risk injury and a possible big payoff to go out there and plunk someone? If I'm Tracey I say the hell with starting a brawl. I want to stay healthy and possibly get a big paycheck someday. You got to look out for you first, team second because in the long run nobody remembers Tracey if he suffers an arm injury in a brawl and no longer pitches effectively.

 

Let the guy that has made a few million relieving come in and plunk him. This looks like just sacrificing a rook which to me is completely bush.

 

 

Based on my interaction with Tracey at Birmingham last year the guy is a total class act.

[WCSox]

You got to look out for you first, team second

 

Apparently you've never played sports before.

[3RDBASE]

This has to be a tough call for a rookie. Do you go out there and risk injury and a possible big payoff to go out there and plunk someone? If I'm Tracey I say the hell with starting a brawl. I want to stay healthy and possibly get a big paycheck someday. You got to look out for you first, team second because in the long run nobody remembers Tracey if he suffers an arm injury in a brawl and no longer pitches effectively.

 

Let the guy that has made a few million relieving come in and plunk him. This looks like just sacrificing a rook which to me is completely bush.

Based on my interaction with Tracey at Birmingham last year the guy is a total class act.

 

DUMBEST POST I'VE EVER READ... SORRY, THERE IS NO "I" IN BASEBALL...IT IS A TEAM SPORT! :headshake

 

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 08:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no need for this. I don't read the damn papers and count on 99.9% of my news from you guys. You don't have to be ignorant.

 

I'm not ignorant. I KNOW what happened. I am INFORMED of what happened. SoxFan is ignorant on this matter. And if that is what you mean then ok I agree.

 

I don't believe for a second that you rely on the message board for 99.9% of the news. I am sure you listen to the radio, read the internet, and watch some TV.

 

 

 

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tracey's lack of control is a pretty good reason not to send him in to hit someone. Seriously, he could throw it at him and hit him in the head. As wild as Tracey was that game against Cleveland, you would have to think a ball intended for Blaylock's ribs or elbow could just as easily strike his coconut.

 

 

Then he shouldn't be in the major leagues anyway. Good riddance.

[Dick Allen]

Randy Johnson was suspended 5 games today by MLB along with Torre picking up a game. No warnings were given out and I'm pretty sure Randy didn't even hit Eduardo Perez.

 

If this is any indication I'd have to say Vazquez would have received something like 6-7 games for hitting a batter after warnings were given out and Ozzie more than likely would have picked up 2.

 

Just an FYI.

He didn't hit him, but there was warnings given. This is why Vazquez needed to plunk someone before the warnings were given. Once he failed to do that all bets were off. There wa ample opportunity to protect White Sox hitters, particularly AJ before the warning was issued. It didn't happen. Its not Tracey's fault.

[southsideirish]

QUOTE(Molto @ Jun 15, 2006 -> 08:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

here's a take on it some may find interesting...

 

http://chicagosportsreview.com/inthemeanti...ew.asp?c=180572

 

personally, I think what Guillen did was uncalled for. you don't openly yell and rip a player in the dugout, especially after the player did nothing to deserve it.

 

I get why he would mention Montero after the game, he's not going to say he had Tracey in there to hit someone, and the demotion, while weird at first, makes sense now with the Riske acquisition.

 

still, horrible decision by Guillen...

 

Deliberately not doing something your manager asked you to do makes it called for. He didn't follow his bosses orders. That is disrespecting his boss. He gets yelled at. End of story.

[SoxFan1]

I'm not ignorant. I KNOW what happened. I am INFORMED of what happened. SoxFan is ignorant on this matter. And if that is what you mean then ok I agree.

 

I don't believe for a second that you rely on the message board for 99.9% of the news. I am sure you listen to the radio, read the internet, and watch some TV.

 

Then he shouldn't be in the major leagues anyway. Good riddance.

Then why don't you enlighten us, oh informed one. :rolly