Posted this in the Diamond Club, but on second thought, thought it might deserve it's own thread.

 

Detroit Starters ERA Post-ASB -

 

Nate Robertson - 5.88

 

Jeremy Bonderman - 4.56

 

Justin Verlander - 1.82

 

Kenny Rogers - 10.34

 

Zach Miner - 7.36

 

Combined - 5.64

 

Combined w/o Verlander - 6.70

 

White Sox Starters Post-ASB ERA's -

 

Contreras - 4.18

 

Garland - 3.42

 

Buehrle - 8.86

 

Garcia - 4.73

 

Vazquez - 7.79

 

Combined - 5.49

 

This looks pretty good for the Sox considering our guys have been looking better as of late. We don't need stats to know our offense is better than theirs. So here is our glimmer of hope. (These #'s do include today's games.)

Robertson and Miner were good last time out, Rogers wasn't horrible, Bonderman had his first bad start in nearly two months. Verlander, I don't know.

 

They seem to be breaking out of it, much like the Sox.

We better dominate the rest of our games with them, otherwise the defecit is too damned big.

I think we just gotta give up about the tigers unless we play em, and then still look to be gaining on the Wild card. I give huge props to Det. they play EVERY game like its life or death and pull out so many games. Verlander is a stud so he's gonna stop any losing streaks.

We are lucky because we have control of their destiny for 10 of their games this year. Play even with them the rest of the time and beat them all 10 and we win. Or outplay them by 4-6 games and beat them about 6-8 times works too.

Verlander is a stud so he's gonna stop any losing streaks.

 

Maybe he could, but I doubt Detroit is gonna pitch him every 5th day now since he is entering unwanted territory in innings. So they could have a good losing streak before he pitches but I'm not sold on him since he does struggle against the big boy teams. If there is anyone who can stop a streak its Mr. Bonderman.

Rogers wasn't horrible

 

I am not exactly sure how 5 runs in 5 IP against the DRays isn't horrible.

 

Not sure it matters, that's a huge friggin lead they have.

 

Maybe he could, but I doubt Detroit is gonna pitch him every 5th day now since he is entering unwanted territory in innings. So they could have a good losing streak before he pitches but I'm not sold on him since he does struggle against the big boy teams. If there is anyone who can stop a streak its Mr. Bonderman.

 

I don't know why Leyland would, unless Verlander comes up sore or just starts getting rocked. Sure it's not territory Verlander's ever been in, but Leyland is old school, I doubt he gives two spiffs.

 

I also don't think I'd call Bonderman a streak stopper. The guy's a good pitcher with some pretty solid stuff, but I don't think I'd go as far as basically declaring him an ace.

Bonderman and Verlander are still good. Bonderman was having a dominant start his last time out than just got a lot of bad luck late if I remember right. Also Maroth is only a couple weeks away and he was doing really good b4 dl'd and even if he isnt as good he is still a solid guy in the rotation.

well verlander is missing his sunday start b/c of "arm fatigue" but basically they say they want to give him rest sometime down the stretch and this is a good time to do it, going to be back for next friday start against unfortunetly, us.

 

And soxace, watch him pitch, he blows everyone away, last 10 starts he hasn't allowed over 4er. He has better stuff than any of our starters this year, that i know.

I don't know why Leyland would, unless Verlander comes up sore or just starts getting rocked. Sure it's not territory Verlander's ever been in, but Leyland is old school, I doubt he gives two spiffs.

 

It might not be just Leyland. If you haven't heard, they have already given him some time off after the all-star break for him to rest and they are skipping him on his next turn and his next start will be against us.

 

I also don't think I'd call Bonderman a streak stopper. The guy's a good pitcher with some pretty solid stuff, but I don't think I'd go as far as basically declaring him an ace.

 

I never did call him an ace. But he is a good young pitcher now (and will be an ace down the line) who has excellent stuff and can definitely stop a losing streak if he's on. I can bet you he will have the lowest era of the Tiger starters this season including Verlander who probably won't pitch as much in the second half. Bonderman is a stud.

 

 

And soxace, watch him pitch, he blows everyone away, last 10 starts he hasn't allowed over 4er. He has better stuff than any of our starters this year, that i know.

 

Oh I have he is a good pitcher, but he does struggle against good hitting teams including us. And you might want to look at his last 10 starts and the teams he faced. And to say 4er is solid anyways it's not. The only impressive outing I see there is Cleveland and even they aren't too good this year. His best outing are mostly against NL teams who are very weak and he didn't pitch too well against the Cards eigher. http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/t...layer_id=434378

Edited August 5, 200619 yr by SoxAce

soxace. verlander is a stud. and i would take him over any of our pitchers. BAA is like under.240 and if he learned to strikeout people more he would be the right-handed liriano with higher velocity.

 

just don't sell the guy short. and in last 10 games only 2 were 4er, 1 was 3er. 1 was 2. all the rest were 0,1

 

for god sake, his era is 2.79 in the AL

Edited August 5, 200619 yr by iguchi=dank

I am not exactly sure how 5 runs in 5 IP against the DRays isn't horrible.

 

You probably didn't watch, but Dmitri Young had 3( should have been 4 errors), and even though the runs ended up being earned, without those errors he would have been out of many innings.

soxace. verlander is a stud. and i would take him over any of our pitchers. BAA is like under.240 and if he learned to strikeout people more he would be the right-handed liriano with higher velocity.

 

just don't sell the guy short. and in last 10 games only 2 were 4er, 1 was 3er. 1 was 2. all the rest were 0,1

 

Ok, let me put it into simpler terms. All I'm saying is don't rely on a rookie to just suddenly stop winning streaks especially one who is unproven, who struggles a bit against the good offensive teams, (like the link I provided his dominence against the weaker teams) and who has another pitcher on the same team who is only one year older, whose numbers have all been better each year, and is basically the #1 on that team. Verlander is gonna be a good one don't get me wrong, but personally, I'm much higher on Bonderman. And please don't ever use Verlander and Liriano in the same sentence.

You probably didn't watch, but Dmitri Young had 3( should have been 4 errors), and even though the runs ended up being earned, without those errors he would have been out of many innings.

 

Explain to me how the errors cost him runs if they were all earned. If every error was scored as an error then if it cost him runs it would be accounted for.

Explain to me how the errors cost him runs if they were all earned. If every error was scored as an error then if it cost him runs it would be accounted for.

 

I was about to say.. maybe he meant "mental" errors. Then I can understand.

Young's horrific defensive play led to some runs, and forced him to throw far more pitches than he should have.

 

Hopefully we never see Dmitri at any position other than DH the rest of the year.

Regardless of the pitching troubles Detroit may be having (and I'm not convinced that it's that serious), they aren't slowing down one bit.

Regardless of the pitching troubles Detroit may be having (and I'm not convinced that it's that serious), they aren't slowing down one bit.

Yeah they're getting a lot of clutch hitting late, which is really saving them quite a bit right now.

 

But we had the same type of thing happen last season, and we're renowned for it. They'll be hard to catch, but I think it's still definitely possible.

Young's horrific defensive play led to some runs, and forced him to throw far more pitches than he should have.

 

Hopefully we never see Dmitri at any position other than DH the rest of the year.

 

Thank you.

It's only natural that their pitching should falter a bit. Doesn't mean they can't get it back on track. Leyland's doing a great job giving Verlander's arm some rest. If he's tired does it mean his fast ball drops down to 95-96? Yeah...that's awful. What that team pulled off against the red hot twinkies in the dome impresses me to no end.

 

Unless detroit stumbles, Sox have to completely dominate the tigers to have a chance for the division, and that's a tall, tall task.

horrific defensive play led to some runs, and forced him to throw far more pitches than he should have.

this could have been said about many Sox outings this year.

Yeah they're getting a lot of clutch hitting late, which is really saving them quite a bit right now.

 

But we had the same type of thing happen last season, and we're renowned for it. They'll be hard to catch, but I think it's still definitely possible.

 

Yeah, last year Cleveland made up 17 games on us, all we have to do is make up 9 to win.

You probably didn't watch, but Dmitri Young had 3( should have been 4 errors), and even though the runs ended up being earned, without those errors he would have been out of many innings.

 

I know I saw Travis Lee hit a ball 450 feet. No fielder is gonna stop that ball unless he has a rocket up his ass.

I also don't think I'd call Bonderman a streak stopper. The guy's a good pitcher with some pretty solid stuff, but I don't think I'd go as far as basically declaring him an ace.

 

I think that he's almost there. I'd label him as a 1.5

 

If he could just start dominating at home like he does on the road, then he'd be a surefire ace. If the Tigers are smart, they'll go with Rogers and Verlander at home and start Bonderman in game 3.

Edited August 6, 200619 yr by hammerhead johnson

Unless detroit stumbles, Sox have to completely dominate the tigers to have a chance for the division, and that's a tall, tall task.

 

Word. HUGE series coming up and we MUST dominate these guys to have a chance. On a side note. That lead wouldn't be a big (or would have helped in the wildcard race) if Cleveland had ANYBODY worth a spiff in their bullpen....ANYBODY. How many goddamn late inning leads have they given up the last week. I swear....I hate that goddamn team more than anybody right now. There's your preseason #1 from ESPN people.....WORTHLESS!