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Leyland cites tipping point

 

By Dave van Dyck

Tribune staff reporter

 

August 13, 2006, 8:13 PM CDT

 

 

Earlier this season, the Cardinals accused the White Sox of stealing pitch-selection signs from center field. Now the Tigers are claiming the Sox knew what was coming from rookie Justin Verlander in Friday night's game by picking up tip-offs on his pitches.

 

Of course, noticing that a pitcher tips what he is going to throw is more clever than criminal, though it is an insult to a team that pounded the hard-throwing righty for a career-worst 13 hits in a 5-0 victory.

 

 

 

Right in the middle of the controversy is Jim Thome, who smashed a Verlander pitch for a two-run homer during a four-run fifth. The pitch was a changeup after Thome had taken four straight fastballs.

 

"Almost impossible," manager Jim Leyland told Detroit media. "It's pretty suspicious when a guy looks at [four] straight fastballs and then doesn't flinch on a changeup and stays back and hits it out of the ballpark. I love Jim Thome, and he's a hell of a hitter, but that's one of the damnedest things I've ever seen."

 

Said Thome: "I don't know what pitch is coming. I don't get the pitches. I just hit."

 

Paul Konerko, who bats behind Thome, said: "No one told me [what was coming]. Jim has almost 500 home runs. No offense to anyone in [Detroit's] dugout, but Jim hits homers off a lot of good pitchers."

 

Sox hitting coach Greg Walker said: "They think [Verlander] was tipping his pitches? I don't care. That's their business. Our business is to hit him. We hit him. It's no big deal. If they're worried more about that, maybe they won't think as much about executing their pitches.

 

"Even if we do get them, most hitters don't even want to know what's coming."

 

When Sandy Alomar Jr. and brother Roberto were with the Sox, Walker said they were "geniuses" at studying pitchers' quirks.

 

"Me? I just got here," said Sandy Alomar, who was acquired from the Dodgers last month.

 

Of course, this may not be the last chapter. The Sox and Tigers still play seven more games this season. And Verlander, who has absorbed three of his five losses from the Sox, will almost surely pitch in at least one.

 

Gimme a freaking break Leyland. We've torched this guy 3 times now, the worst of which was at your place, he has tired arm, and yet we can't have hit him hard, but rather we knew what was coming?? Please, lemme guess we got lucky to sweep your great team too right?

 

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Gimme a freaking break Leyland. We've torched this guy 3 times now, the worst of which was at your place, he has tired arm, and yet we can't have hit him hard, but rather we knew what was coming?? Please, lemme guess we got lucky to sweep your great team too right?

 

 

If my recollection has not failed me, I seem to remember there are two pitchers on our team that also used "tipping pitches" as excuse - Contreras last year and Beurhle this year. Verlander's tired arm still put out 97mph heat. I am not sure the reason why you are writing this!

We kicked his ass and now they are crying like little babies.

hawk specifically said that verlanders changeup is just too inconsistent. its between 80-85.

And?

 

So what if he was, so what if he wasn't. If he was and we figured it out... great! That's called gamesmanship. In fairness, Leyland even said that.

 

Total non-issue.

How come the White Sox are the only ones that have picked up on his pitch tipping?

How come the White Sox are the only ones that have picked up on his pitch tipping?

 

Some teams just fare better/worse against a particular pitcher. And it has nothing to do with our ballpark, as we rocked him in Detroit in April too.

Umm, isnt part of baseball trying to figure out what pitch is coming next? Basically Leyland just said Verlander is s***ty. Thanks for the explanation.

If my recollection has not failed me, I seem to remember there are two pitchers on our team that also used "tipping pitches" as excuse - Contreras last year and Beurhle this year. Verlander's tired arm still put out 97mph heat. I am not sure the reason why you are writing this!

Yeah, and if we were using those excuses, it was a bunch of crap too. I'm just tired of people saying that it's always something other than bad when a pitcher sucks, excuses are just too easy to fall back on.

Yeah, and if we were using those excuses, it was a bunch of crap too. I'm just tired of people saying that it's always something other than bad when a pitcher sucks, excuses are just too easy to fall back on.

Good post. Man up... he had a bad game. Big deal.

Whoa. Jim Thome hitting a home run off of a pitcher? Total fluke event.

Apparently these guys attended the Dave Duncan school.

I don't know if Leyland has realized it or not but our team handles power pitchers who throw fastballs in the zone a lot better than soft tossers who throw breaking stuff low and away. Verlander is the perfect type of pitcher for our hitters to go after. They want the fastball and with Verlander they are going to get it eventually.

Except most of the damage was done with his offspeed stuff on Saturday. Interesting twist, isn't it?

This is the 3rd time I've read Leyland b****ing about Verlander tipping his pitches. God damn shut the hell up and fix his problem then.

 

Its very annoying as its sounding like their saying they wouldn't had been swept if Verlander wasn't tipping his pitches. Hey morons, your defense didn't help you win games this series and while your pitching wasn't terrible it wasn't good enough.

 

Now this story will stick around until we face him again which is just more aggrevating.

Edited August 14, 200619 yr by Whitewashed in '05

who cares

 

in the case that he was tipping, stealing signs and looking for tipped pitches has been in the game forever, and its completely acceptable to try and give yourself the upper hand

You know, If it had been Jim Thome's first at bat of the game, I could maybe see where it would be nothing short of incredible that Jim Thome could hit a HR after 4 straight fastballs and getting a changeup down and away and hitting it out opposite field. But Thome had seen Verlander twice already, and Verlander was struggling. Plus, Thome has seen him in two previous games, it isnt as if Thome wouldnt recognize a pitch or look for a pitch to drive. Leyland is just being pissy

if nothing else, the tipping pitches bit and the whole Pudge thing is maybe an indicator that the Tigers are losing their composure?

I believe for Leyland it is more along the lines of giving Verlander something to build on for his next start. The youngster got torched by a potent Sox team and Leyland dpesn't want him thinking about how he got his ass kicked, but instead thinking "geez the only reason they got to me is because I tipped my pitches." 'Skip said so so it must be right." Leyland is just tryiong to be a psychologist to this young kid.

if nothing else, the tipping pitches bit and the whole Pudge thing is maybe an indicator that the Tigers are losing their composure?

 

It's a full organizational collapse....

It's a full organizational collapse....

 

that seems a bit extreme, but it's certainly an enticing thought.

Big Deal.

 

If they want to prove him wrong just go beat him when he has his "problem" fixed.

Big Deal.

 

If they want to prove him wrong just go beat him when he has his "problem" fixed.

 

Seems to me that us beating on him is the problem.

Seems to me that us beating on him is the problem.

 

 

Yes, so when he has that supposed problem again, just go show him that that wasn't why, you just have his number.

Yes, so when he has that supposed problem again, just go show him that that wasn't why, you just have his number.

 

His number is 0-3 vs. the Sox.