Rush not in R&R HoF??

[The Critic]

It's not "Spirit Of The Radio", it's "The Spirit Of Radio".

......losers......

[Texsox]

It's not "Spirit Of The Radio", it's "The Spirit Of Radio".

......losers......

 

I assumed I was wrong and Kid was right, because he's always right about music.

[Kid Gleason]

It's not "Spirit Of The Radio", it's "The Spirit Of Radio".

......losers......

 

Nerd.

[The Critic]

Nerd.

Good thing you're not touted as a Noted Prog Scholar.

[hammerhead johnson]

and his original version of "All Along The Watchtower".

 

Do you have the "John Wesley Harding" album, or just the "Greatest Hits" Volume 2?

 

Because if you like that track, you'd most likely enjoy that entire album with the exception of maybe one or two songs ("Down Along The Cove" and the title track, in my particular case).

[hammerhead johnson]

As for Dylan.

 

I can't name one person I know of who owns anything by or even likes him.

 

This is the truth.

 

That's why I can't talk about Dylan with anyone besides my Father-In-Law and everybody here at soxtalk.

 

This thread has been fascinating on some levels, though. I learned that Dylan can't play the harmonica. I'm also assuming that Duane Allman couldn't play the slide guitar, John Entwhistle's bass guitar flat-out sucked, Mitch Mitchell was a butcher on the drums, etc. John Lennon couldn't sing for s***, etc.

 

The 1965 Tour has been STRICKEN FROM THE RECORD. Forget about it. It never happened. And remember, Dylan died in 1966, so that was obviously someone else playing the harmonica on "John Wesley Harding" and "Blood On The Tracks".

 

I know it's all personal taste, but that doesn't mean that I can't be amused by it. And I'm not a Rush fan, but I see that they have thousands of bootlegs, so they obviously have an ENORMOUS following, just like Bob. Heck, I could never get into the Grateful Dead, and they have more bootlegs than anyone (part taping policy, though).

 

In the end, the Rush vs. Dylan thing is pretty silly. You were wrong, Dick. You were wrong.

[The Critic]

Do you have the "John Wesley Harding" album, or just the "Greatest Hits" Volume 2?

 

Because if you like that track, you'd most likely enjoy that entire album with the exception of maybe one or two songs ("Down Along The Cove" and the title track, in my particular case).

 

I just have an mp3 from the Greatest Hits.

I've heard a lot of Dylan, I just like a select few tracks.

I saw his exhibit at the RnR Hall Of Fame this summer, and I hate to say this (especially to you or Bob's namesake here at Soxtalk ) but I briefly fell asleep during the video of his live stuff.

I think he's talented, especially as a songwriter, but most of his stuff just doesn't appeal to me.

[easyw]

Comparing Dylan to Rush is apples to oranges. Not even in the same ballpark. But both had notable influences on musicians, the difference being Dylan's influence was a larger part of a broader cultural movement. As mentioned, some of that had to do with timing, which is not Rush's fault - Geddy Lee was still poopin in his cloth diapers on the frozen tundra of the North Country when 'Blowin In The Wind' was released. Rush may have been influenced by Dylan, Dylan was influenced by Woody Guthrie, and you can trace his influences all the way back to the first caveman that ever pounded two rocks together to make noise and called it music.

 

To me, this whole discussion boils down to different musical tastes. I was never big on musical proficency. I think Dylan plays imperfectly, which is great. Rush plays perfectly, which sucks. But they both serve a purpose and have some notable tunes, albeit, with vastly differenly goals (and audiences) in mind.

 

Rock is unorganized chaos -a young person's game - thus my great affection for the Replacements - in all their drunken and tone deaf glory - in the mid 1980s. I've listened to my share of both Dylan and Rush, but as I've aged my musical tastes have changed. Rush bores me. And I don't have time for Dylan's "Where's Waldo" political imagery of a previous generation. These days, I got my own problems, and I use music as a relaxing diversion. Thus, I listen to lots of Martin Denny, Brian Eno, Miles Davis, etc.. I got no time for words...

[FlaSoxxJim]

These days, I got my own problems, and I use music as a relaxing diversion. Thus, I listen to lots of Martin Denny, Brian Eno, Miles Davis, etc.. I got no time for words...

 

I'm truly frightened now, because I was listening to Martin Denny on the way home from work today.

 

Some Les Baxter Too.

 

And I'm not talking the later era Moog King Martin Denny. I'm talking full on, Tiki Gods and thunder Ultra Lounge Martin Denny.

 

Somebody get me a mai tai!!

[easyw]

I never heard of Les Baxter, so I checked out some of his stuff on amazon.

 

Thanks for the tip - 'Colors of Brazil' has got some totally chill stuff on it. I'm not a fan of some of the vocal stylings, but otherwise its really really great.

 

I would much rather hear something like 'Yellow Sun' than 'Tom Sawyer' for the 50 millionth time...

[GaelicSoxFan]

I go further back in my jazz listening. My favorite jazz album, which I borrowed from my dad and made a copy, is First Time!: The Count Meets The Duke. Two of the titans of jazz collaborating on one album.

[hammerhead johnson]

Are you guys up on any late 60s/early 70s era jazz fusion? Dennis Coffey, James Brown Band, Galt MacDermot, Cal Tjader, David Axelrod, Sven Libaek, S.O.U.L., Wade Marcus, Herbie Hancock, Billy Brooks, Jack McDuff, Meters, Kool And The Gang, Freddie Hubbard, Clarence Wheeler, Jimmy McGriff, Groove Holmes, Ike Taylor, Joe Farrell, Jimmy Caravan, Bernard Purdie, Gene Harris, Crusaders, Billy Cobham, Grant Green, Cannonball Adderly, Wes Montgomery, Sun Ra, etc?

 

Or just straight jazz from the early-to-mid 60s? I guess that stuff kinda puts me to sleep.

[GaelicSoxFan]

Are you guys up on any late 60s/early 70s era jazz fusion? Dennis Coffey, James Brown Band, Galt MacDermot, Cal Tjader, David Axelrod, Sven Libaek, S.O.U.L., Wade Marcus, Herbie Hancock, Billy Brooks, Jack McDuff, Meters, Kool And The Gang, Freddie Hubbard, Clarence Wheeler, Jimmy McGriff, Groove Holmes, Ike Taylor, Joe Farrell, Jimmy Caravan, Bernard Purdie, Gene Harris, Crusaders, Billy Cobham, Grant Green, Cannonball Adderly, Wes Montgomery, Sun Ra, etc?

 

Or just straight jazz from the early-to-mid 60s? I guess that stuff kinda puts me to sleep.

I've heard some of the names, most notably Kool & The Gang. Probably by listening to WBEZ while I'm out for my nightly walk.

[hammerhead johnson]

I've heard some of the names, most notably Kool & The Gang. Probably by listening to WBEZ while I'm out for my nightly walk.

 

Have you heard their early 70s era jazz fusion tracks (no vocals), or their commercial stuff, which is more or less straight R&B? You'll have to forgive me; I don't even know what WBEZ is.

 

Great compilation right here:

 

[GaelicSoxFan]

WBEZ is our NPR station. 91.5 FM. They play jazz most nights starting @ 8 PM.

[hammerhead johnson]

WBEZ is our NPR station. 91.5 FM. They play jazz most nights starting @ 8 PM.

 

Okay, I've checked that station out before. They don't play much jazz fusion, though.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Are you guys up on any late 60s/early 70s era jazz fusion? Dennis Coffey, James Brown Band, Galt MacDermot, Cal Tjader, David Axelrod, Sven Libaek, S.O.U.L., Wade Marcus, Herbie Hancock, Billy Brooks, Jack McDuff, Meters, Kool And The Gang, Freddie Hubbard, Clarence Wheeler, Jimmy McGriff, Groove Holmes, Ike Taylor, Joe Farrell, Jimmy Caravan, Bernard Purdie, Gene Harris, Crusaders, Billy Cobham, Grant Green, Cannonball Adderly, Wes Montgomery, Sun Ra, etc?

 

Or just straight jazz from the early-to-mid 60s? I guess that stuff kinda puts me to sleep.

 

My favorite jazz is actually the original New Orleans style jazz which I know makes me a bit wierd. Not the corny dixieland send up version, but the real thing ala' Armstrong and the Hot Five/Hot Seven, King Oliver, carrying through later to Sidney Bechet, Albert Nicholas, etc. I can go to the French Quarter and be completely happy taking in 3 or 4 sets at Preservation Hall, even though you can't get a drink (But, hey, that's why Pat O'Briens is two doors down!)

 

After that would come the WWII/post WWII era stuff, up through the bebop era. Art Blakely is a favorite from that broad era. Listening to Lionel Hampton's mastery of the vibes still leaves me in absolute awe of how good he was.

 

I went throgh a fusion kick in my late teens, with Mahavishnu/McGlaughlin/Cobham, Wes Montgomerey, Lean-Luc Ponty, George Duke, earlier George Benson stuff, etc., being among my favorites. I grew very tired of the elevator muzac style drek being passed off as "smooth jazz" ad I think that helped me get out of the fusion kick. Then again, some of my favorite Zappa albums are pretty much fusion - One Size Fits All and stuff from around that time when George Duke, Chester Thompson, Ruth Underwood, etc., were in the lineup.

 

I think Lonnie Smith is to the Hammond B3 what Hampton was to vibes, and I dig the heck out of that stuff but I don't know that it qualifies as fusion. Great stuff.

[bmags]

jazz is one genre i've very shallow in. sketches of spain is my fav. jazz album, most of my stuff is miles davis or thel monk or kirk or coltrane. But i've never been much of a fusion jazz fan.

[hammerhead johnson]

But i've never been much of a fusion jazz fan.

 

When I say Jazz Fusion, I'm talking funk-jazz, soul-jazz, rock-jazz, etc made in between the years of 1966 and 1975.

 

I got deep into jazz fusion mostly because of hip hop. A good starting point would be the "Tribe Vibes" 3 volume set. Contained are close to a 100 songs that A Tribe Called Quest sampled, mostly funk-jazz and soul-jazz.

 

I'm in the process of putting together a 90 minute funk-jazz mixtape. If you're interested, look up some of these tracks on whatever server you use to download albums, because this music is the true backbone of golden age hip hop:

 

1. Ike Taylor- Hung Up On My Baby (Geto Boys Sample)

2. James Brown Band- The Funky Drummer (Reprise)

3. Joe Farrell- Upon This Rock

4. Soulflay- Scratch

5. Cold Grits- It's Your Thang

6. Deodato- September 13

7. David Axelrod- Holy Thursday (Artifacts Sample)

8. S.O.U.L.- Message From A Blackman

9. S.O.U.L.- Burning Spear (Organized Konfusion Sample)

10. Galt MacDermot- Harlem Medley

11. Galt MacDermot- Duffer

12. Tony Alvon- Sexy Coffee Pot (Rakim Sample)

13. Meters- Cardova

14. Dennis Coffey- Whole Lotta Love

15. Dennis Coffey- Scorpio

16. Lou Donaldson- It's Your Thing

17. Buster Williams- The Hump (ATCQ Sample)

18. Headhunters- God Made Me Funky

19. James Brown Band- Get Up, Get Into It

20. Wade Marcus- Spinning Wheel

21. Billy Brooks- Forty Days

22. Jack McDuff- Flat Backin'

23. Jack McDuff- Moon Rappin'

24. David Axelrod- General Confession (Beatnuts Sample)

25. Galt MacDermot- Coffee Cold

26. Herbie Hancock- Fat Mama

27. Meters- Ease Back

28. Art Blakey- A Chant For Bu (ATCQ Sample)

29. Dub Specialist- Greedy G

30. R.M.O.- Atlantis

31. Freddie Hubbard- Mr. Clean

32. Clarence Wheeler- Hey Jude (Gangstarr Sample)

33. Overton Berry Trio- Hey Jude

34. Bernard Purdie- Something

35. Jimmy McGriff- The Bird (Cypress Hill Sample)

36. James Brown Band- Give It Up Or Turn It Loose

37. Dennis Coffey- Ride Sally Ride

38. Lalo Schifrin- Tabu

39. Geno Guy- Drum Soup

40. Brian Bennett- Name Of The Game (Madlib Sample)

41. Meters- 6V6 LA

42. Galt MacDermot- Stockyard

43. Galt MacDermot- Space

44. Pete Moore- Shady Blues (Madlib Sample)

45. David Axelrod- A Divine Image

46. Andy Loore- Mixed Drums

47. Jack Wilkins- Red Clay (ATCQ Sample)

48. Junior Mance- Don't Cha Hear Me Calling

49. Groove Holmes- Grooving With Mr. G

50. Groove Holmes- Mr. Clean

51. Wet Willie- The Beggars Song

52. Accadde A- Accadde A Bali (Madlib Sample)

 

And like I said, it's important that you stick to the 1966-1975 time period.

[bmags]

see i think of b****es brew which i've never been a fan of.

 

i just got that madlib doing blue note album and its pretty great. I'll check some of this out.

[longshot7]

I am definitely NOT a fan of Rush, but it seems to me a no-brainer that they belong in the HOF. For some reason, the selection committee has an enormous bias against hard rock and heavy metal. Why else did it take Black Sabbath this long to get in? The only other heavy bands that are in there are Aerosmith, AC/DC, and Zep. That's missing Van Halen, Kiss, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Rush, and Deep Purple -- when "acceptable" punkish bands from the same time period like Elvis Costello, Talking Heads, The Police, Blondie, The Pretenders, and U2 are in. Just ridiculous. What makes punk okay and metal not? Did hair-metal ruin the committee's impressions of the genre - if so, then what about the current deluge of pop-punk we've suffered lately?

 

And anyone making the argument against Dylan being in the HOF needs to be ignored forever and ever.

[hammerhead johnson]

i just got that madlib doing blue note album and its pretty great. I'll check some of this out.

 

You should get the soul-jazz source tracks for the Blue Note album:

 

 

These three tracks in particular (all on the same side) are unbelievably good:

 

7. Andrew Hill “Illusion”

from untitled session

 

8. Bobby Hutcherson “Montara”

from the album Montara

 

9. Horace Silver “Song For My Father”

from the album Song For My Father

 

Madlib has had a major influence on me over the years. I have a crate devoted to his Stones Throw releases, and it's just about full. A lot of white labels and what not. I haven't been up on anything since 2003, however.

 

There is a 2CD set of unreleased Madlib stuff from 1997-1999 that you could probably track down. There used to be a s***load of users offering it up on soulseek, but I don't know what happened to that server.

[NorthSideSox72]

My favorite jazz is actually the original New Orleans style jazz which I know makes me a bit wierd. Not the corny dixieland send up version, but the real thing ala' Armstrong and the Hot Five/Hot Seven, King Oliver, carrying through later to Sidney Bechet, Albert Nicholas, etc. I can go to the French Quarter and be completely happy taking in 3 or 4 sets at Preservation Hall, even though you can't get a drink (But, hey, that's why Pat O'Briens is two doors down!)

 

After that would come the WWII/post WWII era stuff, up through the bebop era. Art Blakely is a favorite from that broad era. Listening to Lionel Hampton's mastery of the vibes still leaves me in absolute awe of how good he was.

 

I went throgh a fusion kick in my late teens, with Mahavishnu/McGlaughlin/Cobham, Wes Montgomerey, Lean-Luc Ponty, George Duke, earlier George Benson stuff, etc., being among my favorites. I grew very tired of the elevator muzac style drek being passed off as "smooth jazz" ad I think that helped me get out of the fusion kick. Then again, some of my favorite Zappa albums are pretty much fusion - One Size Fits All and stuff from around that time when George Duke, Chester Thompson, Ruth Underwood, etc., were in the lineup.

 

I think Lonnie Smith is to the Hammond B3 what Hampton was to vibes, and I dig the heck out of that stuff but I don't know that it qualifies as fusion. Great stuff.

While New Orleans sound is good to me, my top choice is brassy big band stuff. Not necessarily your classic dance band routines... slightly more modern, but still jazz with that "wall of sound". Artie Shaw Orchestra, some Basie stuff (though that is older), but even better is Stan Kenton's 50's stuff. Or, go a different Big Band route towards be-bop and big bop, like Maynard Ferguson's stuff (though Maynard's chops have been shot for some time, his bands are hot).

 

I also loves me some Dirty Dozen, Tower of Power and Lester Bowie. If you like fusion, you'd probably like those guys.

[FlaSoxxJim]

While New Orleans sound is good to me, my top choice is brassy big band stuff. Not necessarily your classic dance band routines... slightly more modern, but still jazz with that "wall of sound". Artie Shaw Orchestra, some Basie stuff (though that is older), but even better is Stan Kenton's 50's stuff. Or, go a different Big Band route towards be-bop and big bop, like Maynard Ferguson's stuff (though Maynard's chops have been shot for some time, his bands are hot).

 

I also loves me some Dirty Dozen, Tower of Power and Lester Bowie. If you like fusion, you'd probably like those guys.

 

Maynard just died a couple of months ago.

 

And you are right, his recent bands have been hot. Lots of top young graduates from his jazz academy would woodshed with him for a while. A horn player knew back in college was among them. His chops may not have been up to what they were but his embrochure was rock solid. I saw him about three years ago and he was nailing some amazing upper register notes.

 

I dig the Big Band stuff as well – Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller et al. Timeless stuff. There's just something about the Nawlins "ur" jazz though that makes it really special. Hearing the raw results of the unique confluence of young players taught by European classically trained musicians but then deciding to break all the rules, stylized afro rhythms, catch-as-can instrumentation, and lots of clear-cut cases of guys playing the instruments flat out wrong, but making it their own and refining it until it sounded good. . .

 

The birth of the style right there for the listening.

Edited October 10, 2006 by FlaSoxxJim

[bmags]

soulseek users are scared after the record companie execs have been saying "we know about soulseek"