Ahmadinejad's letter to Americans

[EvilMonkey]

I guessed you missed the posts about human behavior being hardwired towards hatred and violence. That it would be impossible for someone, once they make a statement as bold as the destruction of Israel, to ever change.

 

We hated Japan enough to drop two atomic bombs. If we accept that Iran could not change their ways, then we must accept that we can not change our ways. Unless we are a different kind of human. I believe that humans can change, it is the only way to have optimism that there can be peace. If the people involved can change, like we did towards Japan, and Germany for that matter, then it is possible for those countries to change as well.

Idon't hink 'hate' factored into dropping the bombs on Japan. Yes, we were at war with them, but one of the deciding factors was the belief that Japan would not surrender unless we either invaded the island or use the bomb. As invading would have cost us ALOT of deaths on our side, we chose option B, more to save American lives than to kill Japanese lives out of hatred. Can Iran, the country, change its ways? Sure,but not overnight and to as big an extent as the window dressing on this propaganda piece will lead a few fools to believe.

[Texsox]

Idon't hink 'hate' factored into dropping the bombs on Japan. Yes, we were at war with them, but one of the deciding factors was the belief that Japan would not surrender unless we either invaded the island or use the bomb. As invading would have cost us ALOT of deaths on our side, we chose option B, more to save American lives than to kill Japanese lives out of hatred. Can Iran, the country, change its ways? Sure,but not overnight and to as big an extent as the window dressing on this propaganda piece will lead a few fools to believe.

 

I don't believe there is any denying that the mood in America was hatred for the "Japs". Just as later there was hatred for the "Krauts" and the "Gooks". I also don't believe we can deny that we have changed dramatically in less than a generation.

 

I agree that this is a propaganda piece and not realistic, but to claim the violence and hatred could somehow be hardwired into human behavior is something I can not agree with.

[jackie hayes]

I guessed you missed the posts about human behavior being hardwired towards hatred and violence. That it would be impossible for someone, once they make a statement as bold as the destruction of Israel, to ever change.

 

We hated Japan enough to drop two atomic bombs. If we accept that Iran could not change their ways, then we must accept that we can not change our ways. Unless we are a different kind of human. I believe that humans can change, it is the only way to have optimism that there can be peace. If the people involved can change, like we did towards Japan, and Germany for that matter, then it is possible for those countries to change as well.

If Jimbeeyatch said that the whole nation of Iran is hardwired to violence against Israel, I missed that, please point it out to me. I thought he was referring only to Ahmadinejad.

 

This is tangential, anyway; whether or not it's possible to have this sort of epiphany, Ahmadinejad sure as hell didn't.

[YASNY]

I don't believe there is any denying that the mood in America was hatred for the "Japs". Just as later there was hatred for the "Krauts" and the "Gooks". I also don't believe we can deny that we have changed dramatically in less than a generation.

 

I agree that this is a propaganda piece and not realistic, but to claim the violence and hatred could somehow be hardwired into human behavior is something I can not agree with.

 

You seem to be forgetting that Japan drew first blood. It's also a common belief that an invasion of Japan proper would have cost millions of Japanese caualties in addition to a million or so of our own. It was all out, no holds barred war.

[kapkomet]

You seem to be forgetting that Japan drew first blood. It's also a common belief that an invasion of Japan proper would have cost millions of Japanese caualties in addition to a million or so of our own. It was all out, no holds barred war.

YAS, you're wrong. HATE AMERICA FIRST! Please?

 

And before you crazys even say it, I'm kidding.

[Texsox]

You seem to be forgetting that Japan drew first blood. It's also a common belief that an invasion of Japan proper would have cost millions of Japanese caualties in addition to a million or so of our own. It was all out, no holds barred war.

 

I am remembering that. We are coming up on the Anniversary of Pearl Harbor. That is why we hated them. You aren't seriously thinking we fought that war and loved the Japanese? We locked up every law abiding Japanese American citizens in Internment Camps, was that because we loved them? We thought every Japanese person was our enemy. There was a very strong anti-Japanese sentiment in this country. How can you possibly argue otherwise? Has no one here ever read a history book?

 

My point is we hated them during that war, and were able, rather quickly, to forgive and move on. Just like it is possible for others to do. The original comment that started this was once Ahmadinejad denounced Israel and wanted their total destruction, he couldn't possibly change, that humans are hardwired towards violence and hatred.. I am merely pointing out that we changed, and I believe the Iranian people can as well. That humans are *not* hardwired towards hatred and violence. Y'all seem to disagree.

 

 

If Jimbeeyatch said that the whole nation of Iran is hardwired to violence against Israel, I missed that, please point it out to me. I thought he was referring only to Ahmadinejad.

 

This is tangential, anyway; whether or not it's possible to have this sort of epiphany, Ahmadinejad sure as hell didn't.

Here is the exchange, I guess you passed over it. Not just the people of Iran, but all humans, including you and me.

 

The only hope for peace is that each player in the conflict has the same sort of epiphany. I pray this happens. However, if we follow b****'s lead, that will be impossible because of prior acts. I have an eternal optimism for all humankind and believe it can happen, to accept otherwise is to accept the depths of human violence and cruelty as inevitable and unchanging.

Are you serious? That's practically the definition of human nature. There's how many thousands of years of evidence to prove that's exactly what humans do. That's the problem with certain people in the world. They hold out for this unimaginable fallacy that people aren't hard-wired to be this way. They try and deal with irrational people in a rational way. They try to use logic with illogical people. You going to tell me socialism works too?

 

And do you honestly believe this letter is a message to the American people to trust that Iran won't do anything bad in the future? That its sole aim is to uphold justice and be respectful of all other nations and peoples? Oh wait, we already know that's not true CUZ HE'S CALLING FOR THE ANNIHILATION OF AN ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUP.

 

He's pandering to the rest of the world, promoting himself as a good guy against the evil Bush regime. God help us if people actually believe that crap.

[YASNY]

YAS, you're wrong. HATE AMERICA FIRST! Please?

 

And before you crazys even say it, I'm kidding.

 

Typical Liberal!

 

Relax! I'm also kidding.

[jackie hayes]

Here is the exchange, I guess you passed over it. Not just the people of Iran, but all humans, including you and me.

No, I did, I just think you're misreading this. But whatever, I'm not interested in this sidetrip.

[Jenksismyhero]

Here is the exchange, I guess you passed over it. Not just the people of Iran, but all humans, including you and me.

 

 

I think you missed my clarification. In circumstances like this, with religion playing such a deep role, history shows that people don't change.

[Texsox]

I think you missed my clarification. In circumstances like this, with religion playing such a deep role, history shows that people don't change.

 

I believe history has equally showed that people do change. I for one, as a Catholic, haven't felt the need to strike out on a Crusade.

 

The debate between nature versus nurture really doesn't have a clear answer, I am strongly on the side of nurture.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I believe history has equally showed that people do change. I for one, as a Catholic, haven't felt the need to strike out on a Crusade.

 

Texans are a metal pair of Wranglers away from starting the next crusades

[Rex Kickass]

Here is another nutjob, a bit before most of our time. He made similiar wonderful nice speeches about being friends of his neighbor, and how he wanted peace. Very similiar to what the Iranian nutjob is doing right now.

 

Honestly, if you think that Adolf Hitler and this guy are anywhere close to being in the same league....

 

Ahmandinejad is a guy with not a lot of real power, but can be a lynchpin to success for US policy in the Middle East. It's not about how they act or react. It's about how we act and react. If the US government takes the words of this letter seriously, they can enact enough pressure on Iran to act at least a little more responsibly. Given Iran's problems internally, its a possibility. Perhaps enough to allow them to accept the idea of a weak Iraq as a neighbor rather than a failed one or worse yet, an Iranian satellite.

[jackie hayes]

Honestly, if you think that Adolf Hitler and this guy are anywhere close to being in the same league....

 

Misses the point completely. The whole point is how extreme it is; it's meant to show just how cheap talk can be.

 

If the US government takes the words of this letter seriously, they can enact enough pressure on Iran to act at least a little more responsibly. Given Iran's problems internally, its a possibility. Perhaps enough to allow them to accept the idea of a weak Iraq as a neighbor rather than a failed one or worse yet, an Iranian satellite.

 

Give a concrete example of how something in this letter can pin Iran down on any particular issue that is important to the US.

[Gregory Pratt]

Honestly, if you think that Adolf Hitler and this guy are anywhere close to being in the same league....

 

Ahmandinejad is a guy with not a lot of real power, but can be a lynchpin to success for US policy in the Middle East. It's not about how they act or react. It's about how we act and react. If the US government takes the words of this letter seriously, they can enact enough pressure on Iran to act at least a little more responsibly. Given Iran's problems internally, its a possibility. Perhaps enough to allow them to accept the idea of a weak Iraq as a neighbor rather than a failed one or worse yet, an Iranian satellite.

 

Ahmoud Ahmaniac isn't in the same league as Adolf Hitler of 1939 just yet. But Ahmoud Ahmaniac is definitely in the same league as Hitler of 1933-1935 and, honestly, I think that the people who are talking about this speech as a great opportunity or are taking it as more than cheap talk are in the same league as Neville Chamberlain of Always.

[Texsox]

Ahmoud Ahmaniac isn't in the same league as Adolf Hitler of 1939 just yet. But Ahmoud Ahmaniac is definitely in the same league as Hitler of 1933-1935 and, honestly, I think that the people who are talking about this speech as a great opportunity or are taking it as more than cheap talk are in the same league as Neville Chamberlain of Always.

 

Iran doesn't have the resources like Germany did. They have too small an industrial base to produce the necessary weapons. The only chance he could approach a Hitler like existence is to convince China, Russia, or the US to back him.

 

I don't think anyone believes this is a great opportunity. It would be good to know if this was translated and broadcast in Iran. As we have learned countless times there, it is far more important to know what they are telling their people, not what they are telling us.

 

He is also astute enough to know that words will not change American policy. But such is diplomacy. Saying it is more valuable than not saying it.

[Kid Gleason]

I normally stay away from political stuff here...but hey, what the heck.

 

Part of the reason for the Japanese being put into the camps during WWII was also for their own protection. There were many reasons for it, not all of which were bad. Yes, just listen to some old time radio programs and it's obvious how much hatred there was for the Japanese at the time (and many, many other races...and political factions), but there was some decency in it also. Some...not much...but some.

 

As for:

 

Iran doesn't have the resources like Germany did. They have too small an industrial base to produce the necessary weapons. The only chance he could approach a Hitler like existence is to convince China, Russia, or the US to back him.

 

Umm, wasn't Germany in the grip of the worst depression to ever hit that country and Hitler gained his power by slowly dragging them back to a powerful country?

 

Sorry, I don't buy this guy. Let's all be real, how many of us actually trust ANY leader over there...including Isreal?

[Texsox]

Yes, for their own protection, because we hated them, like each side in the middle east hates each other. But I believe that can be changed, and in as little as one generation. I also got to thinking, Israel isn't thousands of years old, how could the hatred go back that far?

 

I don't trust any leader over there, or around here for that matter

 

I am not an expert on the current state of manufacturing in Iran, but from what I've read, they do not have the metalworking and other necessities to manufacture the armaments for a world war. Germany did, plus had the knowledge as well.

[Kid Gleason]

Yes, for their own protection, because we hated them, like each side in the middle east hates each other. But I believe that can be changed, and in as little as one generation. I also got to thinking, Israel isn't thousands of years old, how could the hatred go back that far?

 

I don't trust any leader over there, or around here for that matter

 

I am not an expert on the current state of manufacturing in Iran, but from what I've read, they do not have the metalworking and other necessities to manufacture the armaments for a world war. Germany did, plus had the knowledge as well.

 

Yeah, but they locked up mainly to protect them from redneck Texans from beating the crap out of them, not because the government hated them.

 

 

I do believe that if Iran starts "gaining trust" and such, through bs letters like this, it won't be too long before people start handing them whatever they want.

 

I also agree, I don't trust any government, but I especially don't trust the governments over there. But trust me, if I could find Sherman and Mr. Peabody, I would hijack their Wayback Machine and re-punch my last Presidential election ticket without a second thought.

[Rex Kickass]

Y'all are misunderstanding me.

 

Any diplomatic overture from Iran towards the United States - however insincere it may be, is a tremendous opportunity for the United States' efforts within the middle east. By reacting to this with honest responses to what Ahmadinejad says in this letter, we can increase our standing within the international community. What Iran says or does after this moment, is irrelevant to this opportunity - because it gives the US the opportunity to grab the moral high ground in the eyes of many in the international community who feel that this is ground that we've lost.

 

Is this a breakthrough? Hell, no. Is it a start to creating the dialogue and international cooperation we would need to successfully take care of an Iranian threat on a military level? Hell, yes. And whether or not this is an inevitability is definitely open to question - but the idea of not making a start to finding friends for this potential theater is definitely something that the US, in its current position, should be considering.

[Texsox]

Yeah, but they locked up mainly to protect them from redneck Texans from beating the crap out of them, not because the government hated them.

 

 

I do believe that if Iran starts "gaining trust" and such, through bs letters like this, it won't be too long before people start handing them whatever they want.

 

I also agree, I don't trust any government, but I especially don't trust the governments over there. But trust me, if I could find Sherman and Mr. Peabody, I would hijack their Wayback Machine and re-punch my last Presidential election ticket without a second thought.

 

Yep, y'all don't understand border justice

 

I find it hard to believe they could gain that much trust, but who knows, stranger things have happened.

 

I don't think that humans are very different around the world. The more I meet people who have been raised in other countries, the more I believe that.

[Kid Gleason]

I don't think that humans are very different around the world. The more I meet people who have been raised in other countries, the more I believe that.

 

I agree. Except for them French bastards.

[southsider2k5]

Y'all are misunderstanding me.

 

Any diplomatic overture from Iran towards the United States - however insincere it may be, is a tremendous opportunity for the United States' efforts within the middle east. By reacting to this with honest responses to what Ahmadinejad says in this letter, we can increase our standing within the international community. What Iran says or does after this moment, is irrelevant to this opportunity - because it gives the US the opportunity to grab the moral high ground in the eyes of many in the international community who feel that this is ground that we've lost.

 

Is this a breakthrough? Hell, no. Is it a start to creating the dialogue and international cooperation we would need to successfully take care of an Iranian threat on a military level? Hell, yes. And whether or not this is an inevitability is definitely open to question - but the idea of not making a start to finding friends for this potential theater is definitely something that the US, in its current position, should be considering.

 

I don't see his letter being anymore diplomatic than anything W ever gets called the worst President ever for. The two central themes are leave Iraq and we will help you (which sounds an awful lot like quit trying to make nukes, and we will help you), and quit supporting the Jews, so we can drive them into the sea for the Palestians. (which sounds an awful lot like quit supporting Al Qaeda so we can bomb them back into the stone age)

 

I also know the motivation behind this letter is complete garbage. It has been well documented that this guy believes it is his duty in life to destroy Israel to bring about the end of times. The high moral ground doesn't matter to this guy, winning anti-semites over to quit supporting Israel is what does matter to him.

[Texsox]

SS,

 

Do you see a compromise that gives the Palestinians a homeland similar to what was given to Israel? It seems the world found a homeland for Israel, can't we carve out a niche for Palestinians?

[southsider2k5]

SS,

 

Do you see a compromise that gives the Palestinians a homeland similar to what was given to Israel? It seems the world found a homeland for Israel, can't we carve out a niche for Palestinians?

 

I absolutely do. That is actually in the plans, the problem is that people on both sides don't want peaces, and they do everything that they can to stop it. The more militant Palestian factions are not happy with a homeland that doesn't include all of Israel, so they conduct their operations to derail the peace process with Israel, who then drags feet on everything siting security concerns.

[Texsox]

I absolutely do. That is actually in the plans, the problem is that people on both sides don't want peaces, and they do everything that they can to stop it. The more militant Palestian factions are not happy with a homeland that doesn't include all of Israel, so they conduct their operations to derail the peace process with Israel, who then drags feet on everything siting security concerns.

 

That's exactly how I read it. I would amend your post to read "some people on both sides", but I assume you would agree as well.